#1
As you all know, Paul Gilbert, Satriani, Malsteem, Vai, they all kick so much ass. I don't know how they got to the top, but for sure they were "gifted."

I consider myself a mid-idiot-crappy player compared to the guys selling stuff in Guitar Center or even some 12 year old kids playing Seek & Destroy or sweeping.

So is there any hope for non-gifted people? Any of you know crappy-young players that became top 10?

Answer for all the common guitar players here in UG. Enlighten us.
#2
Ability comes with practice.


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#3
Kristopher Dahl says that he had no natural talent and he worked his way to where he is. and that man is GOOD
#4
The only abilities that you can be born with that helps you is fast comprehension skills, coordination, and rhythm. Other than that practice makes perfect.
Last edited by darkcheef at Aug 15, 2009,
#5
Well, I learn pretty fast and really enjoy playing. There's nearly no day I don't play/practise playing guitar (except there's no guitar where I am). I have motivation and really want to practise to improve, it's fun for me.
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#6
Ability or talent is only a small part of the overall picture... The only way to get better is to keep on practice. There's no exception to it...
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#7
Ability does play an element, but hard work is themain thing. Without effort you won't get anywhere, but I have known some musically flawed people take a while longer to learn guitar compared to me.
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#8
Get some skill and feel the playing and you'll be god, but you'll need some years to be GODLIKE. Just don't think you'll be good at once.

Practice makes perfect is true for guitar too.

I've played for one year and im not really good yet.
Last edited by GisleAune at Aug 15, 2009,
#10
From my view some people are more musically inclined due to natural traits/psychology etc. But when it comes down to it, with enough dedication and time anyone can be pretty great at anything. That being said, some people will be much better than others, but there is a level that is attainable to anyone that is satisfactory. Some people may need to practice more than others, some may need more help, and some may just enjoy it more, but whether its building rockets or playing guitars some people will be inclined to better than others but dedication can even the playing field.

PS- try telling Richard Feynman that some people aren't naturally good at building rockets
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#11
it's a bit of both. if you're willing to practice more (and more importantly, practice properly and practice the right things), you can overtake more "gifted" people. Likewise, more "gifted" people can often be as good, or even better, with less work.

Just practice a lot, basically, the only thing for sure is that you won't get much better without practice. And play stuff you like, as that'll make you want to practice more. But also play/practice a bit of the stuff you struggle with, too, so you improve. getting a teacher wouldn't hurt, either. preferably one with a soul patch, as that's simultaneously the coolest and most ridiculous type of beard.

it's like going on a diet. If you go on a drastic diet and give up all nice food, you'll probably quit in about two days. Much better to gradually cut out the crap, even if you never cut it out completely, as it'll still be better than never going on a diet.

Similar thing with practice, while it'd be nice to practice all the stuff you suck at and hate for 15 hours a day, setting out to do that, unless you're a very specific type of person, will probably just make you want to quit. Practicing less, and with more of the stuff you want to play, will be more of a safeguard against quitting.

it's also worth pointing out that you can practice too much. It'll be different for different people, but after I've been playing for much more than an hour, I need to stop for a break or i actually get worse.

Quote by Random3
It's not possible to be 'naturally' good at playing guitar. Just like you can't be naturally good at building rockets.




have you got any evidence to back up that ridiculous blanket statement?
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 15, 2009,
#12
Thanks a lot Dave. And everyone else for trying to help .
#13
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#14
Talent might help you catch on to things faster, but without practice its meaningless. Ideally you're talented, AND you practice a lot, but you can be talentless and just practice a lot and be just as good (eventually).
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#15
I think that having a bit of natural ability probably makes getting good easier, because you'll start out a little better so you'll be having more fun right away.

I suppose there are also anatomy things that get passed genetically that could help. Case in point here is Paul Gilbert. That man has insanely long, thin fingers so compared to someone with short, stubby, fat, little fingers he probably has an easier time playing. Not that someone with the latter can't play well (coughYngwiecough).
#16
Well for a start, Satch, Vai, Gilbert and Yngwie have all been playing for at least 30 years (not sure about Yngwie)
#17
Paul Gilbert? GIFTED? You obviously don't watch many of his videos. he didn't start playing fast until YEARS after he picked up a guitar; in fact, I'm pretty sure he went for over a year thinking he could only do upstrokes.

Some people progress faster, some slower. And in some cases, people progress very slowly, THEN progress very quickly. It's all about sticking with it and working until you achieve your goals.
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#18
Being a musician is 30% natural talent, 30% hard work, 20% songwriting, 10% having the will, encouragement and musical lineage as a musician, and 10% dumb luck.

Even if you can only get the 30% and one of the two 10% margins, it's still decent enough to get you to where you want your playing to take you in all likelihood. You're just more likely if you have 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% or the full 100%. But hey, all the bigger smile to wear when you're standing above those with higher chances than you, eh?

On that note, while I love them, The Beatles weren't the most talented on their instrument(Probably the most talented on their individual instrument not including vocals was George, particularly since he mainly played slide after I believe 1966. Even then in his own time people like Duane Allman surpassed him), but they hard the working 30%, the songwriting 20%, the upbringing 10% and looking at their history very much the dumb luck 10%. They didn't have the 100%, but they mixed the 60% they did have, became one of the most successful bands in history, and, whether you like it or not, by spurring The British Invasion, before which guitar music was on it's way out as a pop fad, saved rock, and in turn metal, grunge and everything else that came from rock.

So, in short, it helps immensely. But, if you work your ass off, dedicate yourself and learn everything you can know.

For example with the artists you listed, Gilbert has admitted for a while he wasn't that good, then he started dedicating himself an eventually went to The Musician's Institute. Satch heavily embedded himself in a college-level music program in high school via a heavily dedicated music teacher. Malmsteen I have no idea about since I don't like his music. Vai took lessons from Joe Satriani, which started him in the proper direction immensely, then went to Berklee. Working with the delightfully maniacal genius that was Frank Zappa, who, in Steve's own words, directed his band with an iron fist, likely also helped.

They really all just found excellent teachers and dedicated themselves insanely to their craft. Not to say they weren't naturally gifted, but you can't just say that was all and disregard the rest.
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#19
Anything can be overcome with enough effort and perseverance. For guitar that means a good practice schedule and sticking too it.

I have a friend who is very skilled and he attributes it all to practice. he puts in 6 hours a day. At least one of them is dedicated to speed exercises. He showed me his exercises and after only two days I am seeing results too.

If you practice enough and practice well it will come. Just remember practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. So if you learn it wrong then it will take all the more effort to learn it right.
#20
In my world there is no thing such as natural talent, the only way to be good is to practise.
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#21
Your world is bollocks then lol

Talent exists, there's dozens of examples of people throughout history who've achieved success in their chosen field without having to apply themselves anywhere near as much as others.

My favourite example is always Matt Le Tissier, one of the laziest footballers ever but blessed with the most godly ability to control a ball and possibly the cleanest striker of a football ever. He was well known for not being the most dedicated of trainers yet he still had a successful career in the Premier League.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSsdfe4Z69g&feature=related

There are thousands of footballers who worked far harder than he did, yet never got close to his level of ability, he was just naturally gifted. Now, he'd obviously been even better if he'd matched that ability with an equal work ethic, but his talent was such that he could rely on that alone was enough to get by. If you compare him to someone like David Beckham, he's arguably still a talented footballer with some innate knack for the game but nowhere near the level of Le Tissier, however he's worked his bollocks off since he was a kid and as such is still playing at the top level and has had a glittering, trophy littered career. Le Tissier for all his talent never won anything, partly due to his loyalty to his hometown club who were never going to win anything which could be construed as a lack of ambition.

Bottom line, talent exists, but it only ever gets you so far. If you've got it great, but you still get further with hard work.
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#22
ill tell u this those 12 and 10 year olds will never make it big u need more than just guitar skills to be big, but if i were u then i would keep trying u will be there one day
#23
Quote by steven seagull
Your world is bollocks then lol

Talent exists, there's dozens of examples of people throughout history who've achieved success in their chosen field without having to apply themselves anywhere near as much as others.

My favourite example is always Matt Le Tissier, one of the laziest footballers ever but blessed with the most godly ability to control a ball and possibly the cleanest striker of a football ever. He was well known for not being the most dedicated of trainers yet he still had a successful career in the Premier League.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSsdfe4Z69g&feature=related

There are thousands of footballers who worked far harder than he did, yet never got close to his level of ability, he was just naturally gifted. Now, he'd obviously been even better if he'd matched that ability with an equal work ethic, but his talent was such that he could rely on that alone was enough to get by. If you compare him to someone like David Beckham, he's arguably still a talented footballer with some innate knack for the game but nowhere near the level of Le Tissier, however he's worked his bollocks off since he was a kid and as such is still playing at the top level and has had a glittering, trophy littered career. Le Tissier for all his talent never won anything, partly due to his loyalty to his hometown club who were never going to win anything which could be construed as a lack of ambition.

Bottom line, talent exists, but it only ever gets you so far. If you've got it great, but you still get further with hard work.


agreed.

or george best, even better example.

EDIT: if natural talent doesn't exist, then what about savants?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome#Prodigious_savants
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 16, 2009,
#24
That and people leave out the musical aspect. Some people just "get" music.

Sure they have to learn the technique, but their playing sounds fluid and musical before others because they really just understand what it means to play music, and not just move fingers on a guitar.
#26
Quote by necrosis1193
Being a musician is 30% natural talent, 30% hard work, 20% songwriting, 10% having the will, encouragement and musical lineage as a musician, and 10% dumb luck.

I think will has more to do with it (frequent gigging and meh skills will get you further than reasonably good skills with infrequent gigging) but remember that to master anything you (apparently) only need 10,00 hours of work (I know someone who did studies on this, it seems to work).

Take for example two musicians I respect a lot: Trent Reznor and Jordan Rudess. Rudess studied classical piano but his heart was with prog rock (for some reason ) so OD'd on practice, and still does. Trent worked as a studio engineer before NIN, so he was able to practice his production skills full-time, hence his different approach to songwriting.
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#27
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That and people leave out the musical aspect. Some people just "get" music.

Sure they have to learn the technique, but their playing sounds fluid and musical before others because they really just understand what it means to play music, and not just move fingers on a guitar.


exactly. I meant to say that earlier too, excellent point.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc



have you got any evidence to back up that ridiculous blanket statement?


Sorry if it came across as being ridiculous

What I mean is that people can be born with certain abilities, like say resistance to a drug for example. Playing an instrument or building a rocket are both very complex things to do in terms of being able to 'naturally' be good at them. To build a rocket you would need many, many different talents from many different areas of physics, chemistry, maths and computer technology. It isn't something exclusive and simple enough to be born with a natural grasp of the activity
#29
Practice. I've been seriously practicing for about eleven months and while I'm still not great i'm much better than I was before last September.
#30
Quote by Absent Mind
Ability comes with practice.


I find it funny that this was the first response, because upon reading the topic title I said the same exact thing +1 good sir!
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#31
Quote by Random3
Sorry if it came across as being ridiculous

What I mean is that people can be born with certain abilities, like say resistance to a drug for example. Playing an instrument or building a rocket are both very complex things to do in terms of being able to 'naturally' be good at them. To build a rocket you would need many, many different talents from many different areas of physics, chemistry, maths and computer technology. It isn't something exclusive and simple enough to be born with a natural grasp of the activity


of course, but you might be born with a natural aptitude at the precursor skills, which will make it a lot easier. No-one's born with a natural ability for basketball, for example, but if you're born with a natural ability for hand-eye co-ordination, fast running, agility, jumping, if you're tall, etc., there's a good chance you'll be good at basketball.

Similar thing with guitar. even having a natural aptitude at music in general will make it much, much easier.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?