#1
Since everyone here in the MT forums seem to have different views on what modes really are and what they're used for, lets try to get a general consensus of what they are so people asking questions don't become confused.
#2
The people that actually know what they are don't have different views on that, only different views on how to use them.

If I say that a mode is a scale starting and ending on a different scale degree than the tonic of a major or minor scale, I think most people would agree.
#3
Quote by pwrmax
The people that actually know what they are don't have different views on that, only different views on how to use them.

If I say that a mode is a scale starting and ending on a different scale degree than the tonic of a major or minor scale, I think most people would agree.

i agree with the first part, disagree with the second.

a mode is not a scale in itself per se, but a way to express different tonal qualities of a key by playing a scale with note from a different key. ie, a bluesy sound in the key of A could be played in A mixolydian, which the only difference from an A major is the G instead of the G#.
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#4
Quote by pwrmax
If I say that a mode is a scale starting and ending on a different scale degree than the tonic of a major or minor scale, I think most people would agree.

I'm still beginning to learn them but that sounds pretty spot on.

Edit: Plus what TK1 said about the tonal qualities.
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Last edited by FacetOfChaos at Aug 17, 2009,
#5
Quote by pwrmax
The people that actually know what they are don't have different views on that, only different views on how to use them.

If I say that a mode is a scale starting and ending on a different scale degree than the tonic of a major or minor scale, I think most people would agree.


I agree although it should be clarified that there are different modes for natural minor and harmonic minor.
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#6
modes are major/minor scales played over a different key. an A major over the key of A is A ionian (no change from an A major). a G Major over the key of A is A dorian, but also G ionian.

major/minor modes should be compared to their major/minor (ionian/aeolian) counterparts of the key, then when using them, revolve around the differences to bring out the tone of that specific mode.
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#7
I think the only reason the ionian and aeolian mode are more prominent is because the respective tonic/subdominant/dominant chords are all the same quality which leads to a more stable harmony.
#8
Anyone have any examples or backing tracks which I can use the modes over?

Or, can anyone tell me what would definately be considered a modal progression for each mode?

Like say, Dmaj - Cmaj, over and over and over, you could definately solo out over that using D Mixolydian mode, right?

Like, tips or even a "guide" on how to create a modal progression, which without a doubt - WILL be a modal progression.
Last edited by King Turi at Aug 17, 2009,
#10
Quote by King Turi
Like, tips or even a "guide" on how to create a modal progression, which without a doubt - WILL be a modal progression.

Try starting it out as a major or minor progression to establish the tonic and then modulate. Example would be starting out in D minor and then dropping the F# and switching over to D dorian. Try and include at least one pivot chord that fits in both keys.
#11
Modes are scales formed from different degrees in a scale. So in C major, you could start the scale at D instead of C, so it would be 'D E F G A B C'.

Even though it doesn't go out of key, it still gives it a different feel because it starts on a different tonic, so the intervals between each note and the tonic are different, but none of the notes changed themselves. This causes new relationships to form, and thus the different feel.

So if you played a I IV V I progression in C major (C D E F G A B), and then played that same progression in a different mode [D Dorian] (D E F G A B C), it would sound alot different (probably 'sadder') because the intervals (the relationships) between the tonic and the other degrees have changed. I pretty much view it as a way of playing out of key, but not really playing out of key.

I have really no idea how clear I was on that, or if I'm wrong or not... Someone correct me if I am.
Last edited by Dregen at Aug 17, 2009,
#12
Okay, here's what I believe to be the problem.

Modes as used in modal vamp style (true modal playing), have been used in such a way by shredders/virtuoso's (mainly), that our ears recognize them even out of context.

It's not a true correlation by theoretic definition, but it still holds some value I think.

If you put for example a lydian vamp in a normal key based setting, then most of it will still hear it as a Vai thing or a Lydian thing, because they listen to it per part.

I have a different view on how modes could be used to analyse music, but..

The definition itself is pretty clear (~on modal playing)

Quote by King Turi
Anyone have any examples or backing tracks which I can use the modes over?

Or, can anyone tell me what would definately be considered a modal progression for each mode?

Like say, Dmaj - Cmaj, over and over and over, you could definately solo out over that using D Mixolydian mode, right?

Like, tips or even a "guide" on how to create a modal progression, which without a doubt - WILL be a modal progression.


Check the modes sticky;

I made a lesson on how to make modal vamps _+ video examples for each of them (except Locrian for reason which will be revealed if you dig further in music theory)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Aug 17, 2009,
#13
Quote by Dregen
Modes are scales formed from different degrees in a scale. So in C major, you could start the scale at D instead of C, so it would be 'D E F G A B C'.

Even though it doesn't go out of key, it still gives it a different feel because it starts on a different tonic, so the intervals between each note and the tonic are different, but none of the notes changed themselves. This causes new relationships to form, and thus the different feel.

So if you played a I IV V I progression in C major (C D E F G A B), and then played that same progression in a different mode [D Dorian] (D E F G A B C), it would sound alot different (probably 'sadder') because the intervals (the relationships) between the tonic and the other degrees have changed. I pretty much view it as a way of playing out of key, but not really playing out of key.

I have really no idea how clear I was on that, or if I'm wrong or not... Someone correct me if I am.

Wrong sadly - doing what you've described makes no differenc, you're just playing in C major. For those notes to become D Dorian the chord progression itself has to change.
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#14
Quote by steven seagull
Wrong sadly - doing what you've described makes no differenc, you're just playing in C major. For those notes to become D Dorian the chord progression itself has to change.


I meant to say that, sorry. After rereading my post I see that I didn't make it very clear.
#15
Why don't we just make the 'MODES thread' sticky open so people can ask questions in there instead of the normal posting area.
#17
Quote by bangoodcharlote
¡Qué ridículo!



Now it's correct.


I also agree that there's no need to come to a consensus on modes. People just need to get their information from correct sources and not some friend shredhead who thinks he knows everything about them.
#18
Quote by bangoodcharlote
We would still get myriad mode threads.


Just put the title as "MODES, ASK QUESTIONS HERE blah blah".

And close any mode threads that pop up and direct them to the sticky.
#19
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#20
Quote by Confusius
I also agree that there's no need to come to a consensus on modes. People just need to get their information from correct sources and not some friend shredhead who thinks he knows everything about them.


I had been confunded with modes for ages until just recently, and I didn't have anybody telling me what they were. I was just using lessons off of UG and reading threads on here.

It's just that sometimes some people don't explain clearly enough or get one little piece of information incorrect in their lesson. That can cause much confusion later on. Look at my explanation before steven_seagull corrected me. I thought it was clear until he pointed out a mistake in my writing.

Not just that, but people have different ways of using modes, so that adds even more confusion.
Last edited by Dregen at Aug 17, 2009,
#21
Quote by bangoodcharlote
¡Que ridículo! (That's Spanglish for "How ridiculous!") We don't need a "general consensus" of a non-subjective definition.

this^
#22
Quote by Gaber1999
Since everyone here in the MT forums seem to have different views on what modes really are and what they're used for, lets try to get a general consensus of what they are so people asking questions don't become confused.



Okay so heres your general consensus......... People at UG love to argue.

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