#1
hey guys im a bass player thats really gotten into recording and id like a nice guitar amp for recording. currently i have a fender frontman 25a and it sounds actually pretty decent. i used an akg perc 220 on it and it was good.

anyways i want to get a sm 57 for recording guitar amps and was thinking of the possibility of a new amp. now since this would be mainly for recording i dont need some huge amp stack. as for genres i myself like prog music and some of my favorite tones are protest the heroes "fortress" Atheist's "unquestionable prescense" the leads on spiral architects "sceptic universe", and i really like the cleans on cynics "focus".

if you dont know any of those bands i like a metal tone thats not SUPER heavy and with lots of clarity. The bass fills up low end. anyways from what research ive done it seems for metal, tube is the way to go. ive also heard that they need to be loud for the best tone to come out. im not in a apartment but i have neighbors realtively close by, but ive had a full band practice with drums,bass,guitar,keys, and vocals til around 830 PM before and im assuming all those will be much louder than one tube amp right?

anyways if for some reason it needs to be louder than i could do i could always build some sort sound proof box that i could pop my mike and amp in.

anyways if you know those bands and know what kind of amp that would best suit me that would be great. remember i *really* dont want a halfstack, a nice combo with tubes would be nice.

im also prob going to samash later this week and if its not some vintage amp ill see if they have it for me to try out. anyways for budget id say max 650$. anyways this is just speculation and i may not get this. thanks again.

EDIT: made into paragraphs
Last edited by MetalBass 77 at Aug 17, 2009,
#3
Modelling software like Revalver/Guitar Rig/Metal Amp Room/Amplitube are all going to work out considerably cheaper than an amp, and you'll get 10x the versatility and in all likelihood, much better tone.

Try out some demos and if you like them, it's worth investing in a cheap USB audio interface too.
#4
Quote by kyle62
Modelling software like Revalver/Guitar Rig/Metal Amp Room/Amplitube are all going to work out considerably cheaper than an amp, and you'll get 10x the versatility and in all likelihood, much better tone.

Try out some demos and if you like them, it's worth investing in a cheap USB audio interface too.

i have guitar rig 3 and a fast track ultra. guitar rig 3 is good but for really heavy tones and pro results id rather use a real nice amp.
#6
Quote by MetalBass 77
i have guitar rig 3 and a fast track ultra. guitar rig 3 is good but for really heavy tones and pro results id rather use a real nice amp.

Have you tried using it with cabinet impulse responses? The cabinet modelling on GR is pretty poor.

Using Revalver I get much better results than I ever could without taking my amp to a pro studio, with great mic pre's and acoustic treatment, and cranking it...
#7
Quote by kyle62
Have you tried using it with cabinet impulse responses? The cabinet modelling on GR is pretty poor.

Using Revalver I get much better results than I ever could without taking my amp to a pro studio, with great mic pre's and acoustic treatment, and cranking it...

yea i guess and i will try some impulses with guitar rig but im jsut trying out the possibility of getting an amp miced up, i thin with an sm57 and the top quality fast track ultra mic pres i could get a really nice result that i couldnt get with an amp sim. i still like amp sims for laying down scratch tracks.
#8
the BlackSTAR HT5 and the Peavey Mini Colossal come to mind.

WHOOPSEDIT: i always get those two confused. but the blackheart LG isn't too bad either.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
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Last edited by Jhachey22 at Aug 17, 2009,
#9
Quote by Jhachey22
the Blackheart HT5 and the Peavey Mini Colossal come to mind.

ill check those two amps out,although i feel like ive heard of the black heart.
#10
Quote by Jhachey22
the Blackheart HT5 and the Peavey Mini Colossal come to mind.

Blackstar make the HT5. Though Blackheart make an excellent little amp called the Killer Ant, which is such low power (<1W) that you can crank it in your house.Still bloody loud, mind:

Blackheart:



Blackstar:

#11
thanks for all the help guys. the blackstar seems to be what id be looking for. a smallish tube amp with some really good overdrive tones. the cleans seem to be decent but does anyone know how to get that clean from cynic's "focus" im pretty sure its an effect but not a huge one.
#12
sounds like a flanger or a chorus of some kind. could you be more specific of the song? i can only find Veil of Maya on youtube.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
#13
Quote by Jhachey22
sounds like a flanger or a chorus of some kind. could you be more specific of the song? i can only find Veil of Maya on youtube.

sorry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VGe6dfMqWE
heres a link to textures which is prob by far my most favorite clean of all time. . i like the leads but the rhythms kinda seem a bit too crowded too me (for distortions). anyways thanks for the help
#14
Quote by MetalBass 77
sorry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VGe6dfMqWE
heres a link to textures which is prob by far my most favorite clean of all time. . i like the leads but the rhythms kinda seem a bit too crowded too me (for distortions). anyways thanks for the help

sounds like delay with some chorus at the start. one the other instruments kick in, it's just chorus. it sounds like he's playing some sort of pseudo acoustic as well, like a guitar with a peizo pickup or like he's running a guitar through an acoustic modeler.
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
Last edited by Jhachey22 at Aug 17, 2009,
#15
Quote by Jhachey22
sounds like delay with some chorus at the start. one the other instruments kick in, it's just chorus. it sounds like he's playing some sort of pseudo acoustic as well, like a guitar with a peizo pickup or like he's running a guitar through an acoustic modeler.

most likely an acoustic modeler as from what i know he only uses stienberger guitars, i know he currently uses axe fx, but this album is around 16 years old so i dont know what effects hes using. anyways for a chorus what kind of pedal would you recommend? are boss good? i have an old zoom 606 if that matters at all. should i get a chorus or would a good multi fx be better for recording?
#16
Quote by MetalBass 77
most likely an acoustic modeler as from what i know he only uses stienberger guitars, i know he currently uses axe fx, but this album is around 16 years old so i dont know what effects hes using. anyways for a chorus what kind of pedal would you recommend? are boss good? i have an old zoom 606 if that matters at all. should i get a chorus or would a good multi fx be better for recording?

the newer Boss pedals aren't anything to get excited about. i would buy a CE-2 in a heartbeat, though. i would strongly recommend the Dano Cool Cat Chorus. i think some Steinbergers do have peizo saddles, though.

random fact of the day: Les Paul designed and built the first headless guitar
Quote by patriotplayer90
Lolz that guy is a noob.

Egnater
Leave it on the press, Depress Depress Taboot Taboot.
#17
looks like everyone has pretty much tip toed around what the man asked for. yes, the blackstars and tiny terror and all that. i just don't think that'll do. it is kinda depressing, i know, but these amps most likely won't do what you want them to do, and it is not their quality, it is just the kinda technology that you need for desirable metal.

first off, for metal, you'll want an a/b power section(most likely anyway). it gives the snappy attack and more fierce sound metal guys prefer. all these low wattage amps are class a, it is one reason i like them. not only that, but for me anyway, a tiny terror has more gain than i'll ever need. but metal guys always seem to want more.

you don't really start entering into the tube 'class a/b' world until around 20 watts or so, and that is a pair of 6v6's hooked up in push/pull. like my princeton II reverb... hmmm. i slam it loud, overdrive the crap out of it or put something 'gained-out' on it and it is reasonable. i still prefer something with el34's or 6l6's in it myself, that is what my 50 watt orange or50h is for, does great fuzzy kinda gain on it's own and gets a very aggressive edge with a boost or overdrive in the front, that amp would make you happy as hell.

another option is something very specialty, like...

guitar -> tube amp -> load box(via speaker out)

then run the line out of the load box to a power amp, that way you are driving THE CRAP out your amp, if you want, and then running that line out to a monitor or PA to control the volume of 'amp that is driven THE CRAP out of".

there is also a zvex guitar amp, it's like a .5 watt. run pedals in the front and... it's nuts. powers a 4x12 if you want it to. there is clips on youtube. i think it is hooked up in class a though, still wild

your 'isolation box' idea is very good, that way you won't care how loud the amp is. there are actually there boxes with a speaker mounted inside with a mic you can plug an xlr into. you can also just build it yourself.

you can go with a tube preamp, like some kinda hughes and ketner deal, then go to a DI box to make the impedance more like it is from a miked cab.

these are all the ones off the top of my head. but chances are, any kinda conventional guitar setup to get your desired tone will probably not deliver as much as desired. so you are forced to balance tone/recording technique/volume to get them all to an acceptable level. hope this helps ya start
Last edited by gumbilicious at Aug 17, 2009,
#18
Quote by Jhachey22
the newer Boss pedals aren't anything to get excited about. i would buy a CE-2 in a heartbeat, though. i would strongly recommend the Dano Cool Cat Chorus. i think some Steinbergers do have peizo saddles, though.

random fact of the day: Les Paul designed and built the first headless guitar

thanks for the pedal recomendation ill see if they have one i can try at samash on this thursday or friday.i didnt know that about les paul. i dont really use gibson stuff but i mean he made such huge contributions to music that i have to respect him.
#19
thanks gumbilicious for all the ideas. i will definantley take those into consideration. the zvex wasnt too bad but i think i like the blackstar a little bit more. i still need to try it out in a samash. i will want a high quality amp because if i ever open up my own studio id like to put this amp im getting in the "live" room, but im getting a head of my self here. thanks for all the help everyone.
#20
the zvex appeals to me on many levels. first off, it IS a small amp. many other low wattage amps claim to have 'bedroom volume'. try being in the bedroom next to it. the zvex seems like it peaks around singing voice volumes.

the zvex is handwired. someone invested the time, effort, and skill to make this thing.

super short signal path. this is something that has been getting on me recently. i seem to like amps that do less cuz it seems like more sound comes out of them. blackstar will have a very simple that as well.

the negatives of the zvex is:

where you gonna play one before buying it
costs twice as much
still need a cab
can't get loud enough to jam with a band

it's a focused little toy. the reamping sounds more like the option that would best suit ya though. that is the thing that requires a load box. there is another reamping technique where they record the guitar dry, no distortion or effects. then they take the recorded signal and plug it into an amp, mic the amp, and use the new miked amp for the final track. so if you want to lay tracks at night, and then 'finalize' them when people won't mind. or if you just want to try 1 track through a bunch of different amps setups. this second type of reamping requires/prefers a fairly inexpensive reaming device.

edit: thats right kyle62, that blackheart killer ant is like a 1/2 watt, good call
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Aug 17, 2009,
#21
yea ive heard of reamping before and that seems like a pretty cool idea. once again this is all speculation as there is a ton of stuff id like, but a good guitar amp is pretty high up. i still need to play around with my amp more.
#22
As a Blackstar owner i can say that it is a very versatile amp but i must ask what kind of metal tones you want?

Do you want the Megadeth/Slayer/KEA-RTL era Metallica tones (aka. JCM 800). Or do you want the more modern metal tones (aka. Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier). If you want something like the latter then you will have to look elsewhere as it can do metal but the voicing isn't always the most suited to it.

Then again you could always buy a distortion pedal to go with it for those tones, the Digitech TL-2 from the Hardwire series springs to mind.
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#23
Quote by TOMMYB22
As a Blackstar owner i can say that it is a very versatile amp but i must ask what kind of metal tones you want?

Do you want the Megadeth/Slayer/KEA-RTL era Metallica tones (aka. JCM 800). Or do you want the more modern metal tones (aka. Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier). If you want something like the latter then you will have to look elsewhere as it can do metal but the voicing isn't always the most suited to it.

Then again you could always buy a distortion pedal to go with it for those tones, the Digitech TL-2 from the Hardwire series springs to mind.

ill copy this from my first post

as for genres i myself like prog music and some of my favorite tones are protest the heroes "fortress" Atheist's "unquestionable prescense" the leads on spiral architects "sceptic universe", and i really like the cleans on cynics "focus".