#1
Well, my bands 2nd guitarist got arrested for weed.

Since hes under 18, no jail time, just community service and pissed parents.

But now hes grounded for a couple of months, and that puts our band on a slight hiatus.

(We are deathcore, so If I just showed up and played guitar, it'd be pointless, 1 guitar in a -core band is like...no bass in a ska band)

So, would it be fair if I told him,

A) Stop smoking weed

B) Quit the band

Because all it does is get him in trouble, and we can't have that stopping us from practicing.
Poop.


Yes, poop.
#2
Yeah I'd tell him to stop smoking weed or leave the band.
Don't give him any second chances either, if it happens again just get rid of him or he'll keep on doing it.
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#5
Yes.
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#6
yes
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#7
Yes.
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#8
Yes.
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#9
what's happened with this straight edge attitude of bands these days?
don't put him in a position like that, if he's worth keeping keep him and tell him he can carry on smoking but he shouldn't be a stupid smoker (i.e. I've never been caught with weed but smoke it regularly)
#10
But see, he always comes impaired and ****, and like...if he picks weed over the band I'll know just where he stand.
Poop.


Yes, poop.
#11
Ask him to take it easy on the weed for a few months, maybe only on weekends. My band had (almost) the same problem, the drummer is now out of the band because of commitment issues.
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#12
I'm rarely a supporter of ultimatums.

I believe that people can smoke weed and participate in normal living.

But... it is interfering. Plain and simple. Not once, but twice!

I say, three strikes yer out.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

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#13
Quote by axemanchris
I say, three strikes yer out.


thus^... unless he's your hookup, then you might be screwed.
#15
Quote by Daftendire
How hard is it to not get caught...damn.


I know it

ive been pulled over on several road smokes and was never questioned
#16
If it's interfering then make that clear, but I'm a believer that people can do as they wish so long as it doesn't interfere with your joint affairs.
#17
Quote by take_it_t
If it's interfering then make that clear, but I'm a believer that people can do as they wish so long as it doesn't interfere with your joint affairs.

hehe... joint affairs... hehe... nice.
#18
If the guy would rather get high then play in your band **** him. You can find another guitar player.
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#19
Quote by GrisKy
hehe... joint affairs... hehe... nice.


Hahaha that was definitely no pun intended.
#20
I don't think you can really tell someone to stop doing something unless it will continue to impact adversely on the band (i.e. not 'once, completely unpredictably, it caused problems'). However, I'm aware that that's not a position you're likely to agree with at this point.

I would agree with Axemanchris - I'd put it like 'if your smoking causes problems for us again, you're out'. This is assuming that his playing isn't affected, of course, in which situation it becomes acceptable to criticise his use.

However, I wouldn't try and force sobriety and clean living on your band 'simply because at some point it might cause problems'. If you think weed is bad, wait till you all start drinking and being hungover at practices...
#21
It seems fair-ish.
Is it his first offence (you know, the whole "in trouble" part)

And Chris, why don't you like ultimatums?
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#22
I don't like ultimatums either. Since Chris has kids, his POV may be different than mine.

It is one thing if a parent, or an authority figure gives an ultimatum, it is different for peers. I'll supply 3 likely scenarios of what may happen if you do what you are planning.

1. He "accepts" your conditions, and says he will get it together. That's the visible aspect. Although he appears to agree, he may harbor some resentment towards you and the band. It won't be visible, but sooner or later, if you guys disagree about something totally unrelated, he will whup it out.

2. "You aren't the boss of me FU!" Gone. Done.

3. The least likely. He will be genuinely remorseful for his behavior, and thank you for caring so much about him, and become a model citizen.

It comes down to how much you care. If you are just in a band together, what you do matters less. If you consider him a good friend, explore all the options you can to keep him a good friend. Ultimatums end that discussion.
#23
I support the three strikes your out plan. I don't think that pot is negative in itself, but if it's making things hard for you guys, you definitely shouldn't put up with it. Let him know where you stand!
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#24
Chokmol you read my mind!

Its always like that. Weed, drugs, women, booze, pissy attitudes, and egos are key ingredeints in a band. Its been that way since the dawn of time. Buddy Holly used to get so ****ed up on rocks, he thought he was Mr. Peanut!

But seriously, if it angers the band, it angers the band. Thats just the way it goes. I dont like the ulimatum, as it has no wiggle room. Addicts backslide from time to time, thats what being addicted means.

If you havent already, you should read about Steven Adler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Adler

Good story about substance abuse and the effects that it has in a band.
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#25
JRM
I checked the link. I had not seen it, but I have seen the behavior described more than I would have expected. Even though I took a break from music, I've still been dealing with artists and creative people most of my life. I have those "demons" too, but have learned to control them as well as I can. Many creative people seem to have a propensity to "self medicate". I'm not a psychiatrist, and I've never spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express, but I do believe creative people are "wired" differently. To me, making it big or not isn't the issue. It is what we do to ourselves in the pursuit of our art. I have found my limits.

I admit, I avoid truly self destructive people. You know 'em when you see 'em.
#26
chris knows whats up. i don't believe in ultimatums either but i'd be honest and say something along the lines of

"man we like having you in the band and we don't care if you smoke/get high but you keep getting busted and it's hurting the band. if you get busted again we're gonna have to replace you with someone who won't be getting grounded all the time"

that way you don't tell him "stop smoking pot" you let him know that personally you're ok with that aspect, what you're not ok with is the fact that he keeps missing practice because of it. it kinda gives a "figure out what you want to do" impression when in reality it all boils back down to "either stop smokin' or hide it better" but at least it gives the illusion of you offering an open ended choice to the guitarist.
#27
I don't like them because they are the most overt form of manipulation there is. By virtue of issuing one, it implies a relationship of power and authority over subservience. They are usually about the brokerage of power and control. That is not good for team building, as in a band, and IMHO, does not show respect.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
I don't like them because they are the most overt form of manipulation there is. By virtue of issuing one, it implies a relationship of power and authority over subservience. They are usually about the brokerage of power and control. That is not good for team building, as in a band, and IMHO, does not show respect.


Word.

They imply that it's your band and he's there only as long as you agree to it. Which might be true in some circumstances, but not likely amongst under-18 non-professionals.

If you tried kicking him out, are you *certain* that nobody else in the band would decide to follow him and start a new band? Because if you're not, it's not a good idea to start trying to throw your weight around.

As I said before, warning him that if he messes the band around, he'll have to leave is OK. But make sure it's not just you saying this. Make sure everyone agrees (including him) on what constitutes unacceptable behaviour.
#29
Quote by axemanchris
I don't like them because they are the most overt form of manipulation there is. By virtue of issuing one, it implies a relationship of power and authority over subservience. They are usually about the brokerage of power and control. That is not good for team building, as in a band, and IMHO, does not show respect.


This.

Give him a chance -- explain to him that his smoking weed is getting him in trouble and it's putting the band in a bad spot. Stress that he doesn't have to stop smoking weed, he just has to be smarter and more careful. If he can't pull that off after a few tries and it's really bothersome, kick him out.
#30
give him another chance. if he keeps getting in trouble or if it's affecting your shows/ability to get shows then he needs to go
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#31
Change the band name to "HUgs Not Drugs" And see how he reacts
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#32
Quote by Jonny Ryan Mac
Chokmol you read my mind!

Its always like that. Weed, drugs, women, booze, pissy attitudes, and egos are key ingredeints in a band. Its been that way since the dawn of time. Buddy Holly used to get so ****ed up on rocks, he thought he was Mr. Peanut!

But seriously, if it angers the band, it angers the band. Thats just the way it goes. I dont like the ulimatum, as it has no wiggle room. Addicts backslide from time to time, thats what being addicted means.

If you havent already, you should read about Steven Adler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Adler

Good story about substance abuse and the effects that it has in a band.


didn't I see him on celebrity rehab? great way to reignite a career!
...no press is bad press.
#33
In Australia there's a general attitude that "if it doesn't affect you, you shouldn't care". This is why I don't care if my mates do drugs, that's all good. However if they sell my tv, it is now affecting me and I should care.

I've noticed in my travels of America there is a larger tendency to force your own personal morals upon others if they don't conform to your own. This is more predominant in some states than others. The result is people invading themselves upon others despite not being adversely affected by them at all. A simple watch of the so-called news channels reveals people stating strong, uninformed opinions on issues that they have only learnt about minutes before, and would not care about had they not been told.

I'm not exactly sure how your band mate got busted for weed - the only situation where I could think of that happening in Australia is if he was possessing a trafficable quantity of the drug, which is different to merely smoking it.

But the main thing is whether it is affecting the band in any way. On your facts it doesn't appear so, you're just taking a high-and-mighty position because your band mate was charged with a criminal offense. The ultimatium is not fair. You can only express your concern as to his health, but it sounds like you didn't even notice, and still don't notice any affect on the band mate.

So it's not affecting you, you shouldn't care. It doesn't concern you.
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#34
the fact that they are having to work around the reprecussions of his actions show that it's affecting the band. right or wrong, i take no side. some of the most productive people i know are potheads. some of the laziest are clean and sober. the inverse is equally true. the problem though is that now he has to sacrifice rehersal time to do community service (which isn't a bad thing in its own right), and now his folks are pissed and less trusting of their son/your bandmate. this is a hassle, and like it or not, these are the laws we have in the states right now.
I agree with Alan's statement that if it doesn't affect you, why should you care, but I could see how it would affect you in this particular set of circumstances.
#35
pfff deathcore? You can pull that stuff off with half a guitar. Go on by yourself, arrange the parts so that you play as much of your 2 parts as possible.
#36
Christ it's only weed! If he was like a complete drug addict, then fair enough, but its only pot. Just tell him that he can smoke it if he wants but if he gets caught and he gets grounded he will be out. But don't stop him smoking it, just so long as he doesn't get caught.