#1
complete idiots to you? I mean I am a noob by all means but i picked up an axe at the same time one of my buds did...i showed him drop d and ever since then he just thinks he is good enough...dude never studies any theory...never tries to read tabs to cover a song...this dude can't play one lick from any song...

its just to the point i got to vent...he can't even make a power chord for standard e shape...he blames his short fingers...but yet he can use all 4 doing some garbage but cant seem to utilize fingers 1 and 3 for a simple powerchord

he has no idea of chord progressions and hey whatever but here is my beef

he records everything on this digital recorder and is like "woooo!" after ever piece of crud he makes...he can never duplicate the slop he plays and its just frustrating...

he claims "i want to learn to play by ear" but wow he is so lost

he makes total hip hop drums on the drum machine and can't even understand tempo....he had the never to tell me TEMPO and BPM were totally different...(but wow aren't bpm's used to measure tempo? so that makes them closely related if not the same friggen thing)

OK OK OK to my question

is it hard for you to play with someone who just isn't there? He has deterred me from really approaching anyone who i know that is better than me at guitar to try and jam because i feel like they would look at me the same way...like "wow he isn't on my level this is impossible" or does that change once someone finally understands chord progressions?

i know some good guitarists and understand simple rythm so would it be miserable for them to play lead over my rythm? even though my rythms arent up to par with the crazy ones they play to, i just wanna jam with someone who knows a little somethin...
#2
i think my problem is that he is such an idiot he will sit there and insist he is right since he has "had a drum machine for 5 years" but yet when i try to tell him something about tempo he gets all butt hurt and tells me im wrong...he just is always right about everything and so shut down to learning and expanding ....really just close minded

please tell me...this..

in a 4/4 measure at 120 bpm on a drum machine, a snare or whatever you are keeping time with should be hit on every beat, meaning 16 times within the measure...BUT if you hit it every other beat it really just makes it like a 4/2 progression at 60 bpm... since you only get 8 beats in hitting it every other beat...is that correct?

i just wanna test what i know
#3
Oh its never a bad thing to jam with people, even if ur playing some crazy stuff off the top of your head. Maybe you should show him something to play, and then jam with him on that for awhile. I was once a lot like what your describing. I learned to play in standard tuning first, but I just kinda went with what i thought sounded cool, and i could not play a lot of the stuff i would just wank out to. But now thats part of my style, I play some sporadic stuff sometimes, but i learn how to mimic it fairly close to the way i played it before. But for me I dont like playing everything the same exact way as the way it was played originally.
Peace be thy journey
#4
It sucks to be markedly worse or better than the musicians with whom you are playing. You either feel like an idiot or feel somewhat held back. However, if you can play solid rhythm guitar, you'll be okay in most jam settings. If you approach a friend who is much better than you, and ask if he wants to play some 12 bar blues, it will probably be fun for both of you. After reading your double-post, which you shouldn't do, by the way - use the edit button - this person does not sound like such a good friend. Or are you just listing every flaw and leaving out the good qualities? (You don't have to answer that.)
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Aug 21, 2009,
#5
people may not know a lot about the chord progressions, or theory but if they are totally enthusiastic willling to learn and research, it's fine.

I love it when I explain something to someone, they might ask a few questions, and then they get it and use it. Makes me feel good, makes them feel good, makes us both sound a little better.

If you're enthusiastic and completely willing to learn, it should be fine. Unless you've already told the you're the bomb and know everything. Then I would be so pissed I have to explain heaps to you...

be enthusiastic and willing to learn.
Quote by bangoodcharlote
If you approach a friend who is much better than you, and ask if he wants to play some 12 bar blues, it will probably be fun for both of you.

this too
Last edited by mdwallin at Aug 21, 2009,
#6
mdwallin you are exactly right...if i could show this dude just a little something it would be so much better...i try to and he just shuts it out...i think he is jealous honestly that ive progressed and he really hasn't done much... and it sucks

i like to rap a bit so we were just making tunes...random goofy stuff and mixing guitar and bass in...and it was fun...now i go over to jam and when i get there instead of starting from scratch and finding some catchy stuff he already has a three 6 mafia drum track made up and is recording the most horrid sounding epic when i walk in and i sit there for like an hour and just get so uninspired and burnt out its retarded...

and he really can't handle the fact im starting to understand timing and show him whats up with his own drum machine...he thought a 60 bpm tempo was 600 for the longest cause he didn't even notice the decimal

is this kind of person just too stubborn to jam with? cause inturn it makes me stubborn cause i dont wanna waste my diamond in the rough on his pile of dirt...

it makes me not want to show him what i got in fear that he will just lead it in a direction that is so far from the goal i had...

guess thats probably the hardest part of playing in a group you all got seperate ideas...but atleast with someone musically inclined you can say "build it up heavy here" and they can come up with something heavy that is their own and you agree with...and vice versa they can say hey yanno i think it needs to chill here and get melodic and you can try stuff out...but with a one trick pony and 2 power chords it gets rather stupid quick

and yea this dude thinks he is pretty good...so its hard to tell him yo dude...i taught my other friend more in 2 days then you have learned in nearly 2 years (and that is true..it did happen...had my friend playin the intro to seek n destroy and cowboys from hell in 2 days and this character im griping about cant even play smoke on the water) and it made me feel good my friend was like "damn man you are a real good teacher" and i taught him powerchords and a pentatonic scale...in 2 days... 3 or 4 hours tops...and wow countless hours and still no skill.

when you can't even play songs you've recorded for an "album" twice...you aren't so hot if you ask me
Last edited by Jeradmang at Aug 21, 2009,
#7
Relax, take a step back, and find somebody else to play with. There is no point banging your head against a brick wall and spending time slagging off his musical skills on the internet when you could be with other, like-minded musicians, who you are having fun with.

I find it fustrating that the guitarist and bassist in my band won't learn theory and shrug it off if I do try to educate them in some way. I just step back, check myself and carry on because we have fun. If I ever stop having fun then I'm out, I think that goes for almost every casual musician out there.
#8
an interesting exercise in music would be to attempt to jam along with his ridiculous drum tracks and crappy guitar riffs. If you could play along with his atrocities, then you know you are good.

but on a differnt note, keep trying to teach him stuff. Eventually he may subconciously use it. In the meantime, find other musicians to play with. Even if they are infinitely better than you, most musicians would be willing to jam with anyone who could play a few chords in a simple rhythm. Even very simple jams can be fun.
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#9
yea I think thats what im going to do...and i know its not right slugging it out on the internet...but ive known the guy since we as 5 and we used to have fun jamming but its getting to a point now that its no longer fun....guess its time to say peace out hit me up when u figure it out and find someone more suitable to jam with.

i just feel like im jamming with a 4 year old sometimes and its gay at times. worst thing is when i show anyone the tracks we have recorded together they just always dog his stuff...saying he is the weakest link and just lack luster.
#10
You do realize that there are some people who don't want to become musicians right? Sounds like he doesn't have as much motivation as you. You don't need theory, fancy licks, or a vast repertoire to have fun.

Also think of this, picture yourself sitting in to jam with some burning studio musicians. Would you rather them act like they are way out of your league and just be angry throughout the session making you feel like you are a worthless guitar player or be patient and help you with what you're having trouble with?

While it is better to play with people who are better than you, playing with ANYONE is good. If he's having trouble keeping rhythm or playing the progression just keep your ears open and when it starts to fall apart start playing some other voicing of the progression so he can hear where you are and join back in.

Don't be the typical musician with the giant ego
#11
Quote by rockinrider55

Also think of this, picture yourself sitting in to jam with some burning studio musicians. Would you rather them act like they are way out of your league and just be angry throughout the session making you feel like you are a worthless guitar player or be patient and help you with what you're having trouble with?

Don't be the typical musician with the giant ego

this. i'm a decent guitarist and i've found that playing with people that are less proficient/technically apt than me to never really be a problem as long as they can somewhat keep time. maybe yer not quite as good as ya think you are? i've never personally had another musician hold me back because of anything. the only person who's ever held me back was me.
Last edited by z4twenny at Aug 21, 2009,
#12
Quote by Jeradmang
i think my problem is that he is such an idiot he will sit there and insist he is right since he has "had a drum machine for 5 years" but yet when i try to tell him something about tempo he gets all butt hurt and tells me im wrong...he just is always right about everything and so shut down to learning and expanding ....really just close minded

please tell me...this..

in a 4/4 measure at 120 bpm on a drum machine, a snare or whatever you are keeping time with should be hit on every beat, meaning 16 times within the measure...BUT if you hit it every other beat it really just makes it like a 4/2 progression at 60 bpm... since you only get 8 beats in hitting it every other beat...is that correct?

i just wanna test what i know


Maybe hes not such an idiot, because you have no idea what you are talking about. 4/4 has 16 beats in a measure? I don't think so, Tim.
#13
It's 4 quarter notes ... or 4 beats in a measure.
4/4 is one of the most used time signatures ><
#14
Well, I certainly understand your point of view. I have a friend in my school who picked up electric guitar after me and is not very good in his picking motion (which is really important). He has chords and stuff, his fret hand is good but his pick hand technique isn't. (I felt like I had to put that in so he doesn't sound as bad as you make your friend sound).

I have a cousin who doesn't play guitar that much but I am confident in saying that he's better. People learn at different paces and have different strengths and weaknesses. Your friend sounds like a casual fun and laid back kinda guy.

However, I suggest you find other people to play w/. Or, you could look for some of those songs that include to guitar players w/ a support (rhythm) and lead. Metallica has a lot of songs w/ nice rhythm and lead figures going on. "The Unforgiven" is a good example and "Fade to Black" (Intro solo and outro solo) is a really good example of two guitars w/ their own parts matching up very well.

Since it seems you're into Hip Hop and your friend is too I must ask, do you like Eminem? His songs have plenty of guitar tracks, none really w/ a rhythm and lead but it would be alright to learn those riffs and there are some solos (Marshall Mathers has a pretty easy and decent solo at the end and Sing for the Moment has a bit more harder but also really cool solo too... I think it was Aerosmith's solo but w/e). And what about "Walk This Way"?

If you want something simple to jam to just program this

Closed Hi-Hat -o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o- 
Snare         ----------o------------- 
Bass Drum     ----------------------o-


For those who didn't know that drums have tabs too, there ya go, a very basic drum beat. Add a bassline if your friend knows his scales, if not, then just keep the drum beat as is and see what ya can do. Add more bass drums if you feel like you want a more heavier sound, lower the volume on hi-hats if you want more hip-hop.
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#15
well 4 quarter notes...meaning 16 till they repeat is what i meant...but this dude has nothing no game...no shame...i try but it becomes frustrating because dude wants to be a musician just no desire to learn...whatever though im done with it...
#16
I don't think you even should ask yourself or anyone here at UG if you should stop playing with him. Because it's so obvious. Ofcourse you should xD This guy sucks and has a to good ego than what's good for himself. I had a friend like that before and he still sucks. Doesn't know any theory, doesn't know timing, tabs all the way, lead guitarplaying is terrible and so is the rhythm, and he has been playing for about 3 years.
#17
Why all the hate towards other players?

Jamming should be fun, don't worry about how good you are or how band you are, just play.
#18
There is just a point when it falls apart...i want to branch out and do more and he is stuck in the same little box keeping me in that parameter.


I mean if musicians can't understand me at that point it sucks...and it would be bad ass if i could make his bad stuff sound better by playing over it and I can somewhat...but he will always be in different tuning then me first off and second he can never repeat his stuff he is just free roaming everything and never even resolving back to a common area...its just like wow...how can i begin to follow this when you aint even knowing where its goin..

im done jammin with him most likely...
#19
1. Have him play a simple progression. Then 'branch out' and can run some cool ideas over his playing.

2. Show him/Tell him to get in tune.

3. Even if you decide to stop playing with the kid, you should consider an attitude adjustment before starting to play with other people. You could be the hottest player on earth and no one will want to play with you. No one likes to play with a jerk.
#20
You just have to keep what you're doing to a level that he'll be able to play along with, and be patient with him. Explain things, rather than just get frustrated when he can't play along right away. Don't play something to make yourself seem better and him seem worse. Keep your chord progressions and time signatures simple. He'll be able to play then, and you'll still be able to do as much as you want with it. You can make a I-IV-ii-V progression in 4/4 complicated if you live, even though that's one of the most basic things to be playing.

I can always have fun jamming with someone, regardless of skill level, as long as they aren't cocky, and don't just dick around the whole time. And usually when they're worse than me, I can quite easily assess what they are and aren't capable of playing, and then avoiding those different time signatures, or modulations, or whatever it is that gives them problems.

And also to answer your question about the drum machine:

4/4 means simple quadruple time. There are 4 pulses, each subdivided into groups of two. The snare is typically played on beats 2 and 4, and thus there are two of them in a measure. A typical system will have 4 measures, or 8 measures, and thus will have 8 or 16 snares, on the premise that the drums are playing straight time. 4/2 also means simple quadruple time. If each is in isolations there isn't a difference between the sounds, only between the notation (one less stem on everything in 4/2). When combined with other time signatures there will be differences in tempo (which could also be written by just changing the tempo). 4/4 at 120bpm will sound the same as 4/2 at 120 bpm, and twice as fast as 4/2 at 60bpm. The bpm always refers to the length of note getting the beat, including but not limited to quarters (It refers to the speed of the half note in 4/2 time).