#1
Been lookin into one of these, Hartke 3500 Bass Amp Head. Looks like a pretty good Bass Amp. Now I'm just wondering if this is gonna be good enough to power either a 4x10, 2x12, or 1x15 cab well enough for me to Gig with. I'm talkin about pretty decently big gigs as well though. I play Metal with a 5-String.

Thanks!
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#2
How big is "pretty decently big" ? For metal, a louder amp might be better, since I've heard that the bass tends to blend with the guitars, depending on what you're playing. Where are you? If you're in the US or Canada (though shipping tends to suck) take a look at carvin. If you're willing to lug a stack, they're definitely bang for buck.

carvin stack

what's the budget?
#3
Well I'll be playing shoes at bars, venues, whatever... But they usually have mics there so would it matter much?

Well, I found a good deal on this one for roughly 200 or something. I wanna try to spend as little as possible. I have a budget of maybe $1000, but staying as far away from that as possible would be good, haha. Yeah, I live in the US.
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· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#4
My gig experience is all jazz, so hopefully someone who does some metal will pop by. I'm not sure how much head room you'd need. I think it might be enough, even at eight ohms. How many cabs are you planning on having? I've heard nothing bad about the hartke, so you don't have to worry there.
#5
Well I only want to run 1 Cab. Just debating on what kind of Cab I wanna run still.

The Carvins look pretty good. Maybe the BX600 or something, the BX1200 is a bit too much for me.
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· Ibanez BTB455
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· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#6
That 1200w bi-amped Carvin is probably WAYY to much for you now. Thats a professional rig.

I play in a metalcore band and I use a Peavey 115 with a 2x10 on top, getting 300w out a 15 and 2 10 in speaker.

I get by in most of my shows, with a china-double bass- drummer, 1 Marshall Half stack, keyboard/synth through a 500w Peavey PA and a screamer.

I've played with bands that have GK 1001 and Ampeg 810, but they never really turn it up all that much, it's more for looks. I turn my 300w to about 6-7 volume and it's fine.

For my bigger venues, it's all miced up or DI.


250w would probably work for most shows, but I would go bigger. 300-500w.
I would get http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=SBR410

It's super loud now and you can use the same head if you want to get a new cabinet. (goes down to 2 ohms)

EDIT: If you were to get that 600w Carvin, get a 4 ohm cab so you can get 400w out. Then if you want later, get another 4 ohm cab to get all 600w. But even 1 4x10 at 400w will be VERY loud.
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#7
Would you rather go with the Carvin BX600 instead of the Hartke 3500? They're somewhat similar amps aren't they?

Would a 2x12 Cab be good as well? I want a really good Low Bass sound.
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· Ibanez BTB455
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· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#8
Hartke 3500 and Carvin BX600 are pretty different.
Hartke is 350w at 4 ohm. Carvin is 400w at 4 ohm, and it can go to 2 ohm. And it's bridgeable to 1200w at 4 ohm, if you want to separate hi/lows. Built in compressor (which i think is pretty important). Made in USA too.
Carvin is very versatile.
Hartke is very good too. I toured last summer using my friends Hartke 5500 with a 4x10 and it sounded great.

Yeah a 2x12 would be great. A Avatar 2x12 is rated at 500w with 2 Neo speakers.
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/

I don't remember where, but I recall reading that a 4x10 actually has more low end than 12's and 15'. I'll try to find it. My friend plays with a older Peavey 2x15 and he get's very low, but you can still distinguish what he plays.

Hartke 3500A is really good too. But for the same price, I'd go with Carvin.

Since you want 1 cab, get a 2x12 at 4 ohm and you'll probably won't need to be any louder.
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#9
Well the Hartke's are more common so it's easier to find a deal on them. The BX600 is like $400 on the website while the 3500 is $400 as well. But you can find used Hartke 3500 for like 200-300 bucks. So is the Carvin worth it?

An article explaining what kind of Cab is good for the sound I want would be very helpful. I'm new to Bass and never really understood this Speaker Talk. So what does the Ohms thing and Bridge crap mean exactly?
Guitars
· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
Amp & Accessories
· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#10
That's true on the used thing. Hartke 3500 is a good amp. But the Carvin can go to 600w which will probably be all you need for the rest of your life.

Biamp is like using the head with 2 cabs (ie. a 15 and 2x10). Then you use the head to separate the high and lows, based on frequency. So that only the low sound comes out of the 15 (so it's 'stronger') and the high notes come out of the 2x10, more pronounced and less muddy.

Biamping is pretty uncommon.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144244
Is a good read on ohmage.

But basically, with the Hartke 3500. It is 350 w at 4 ohm. So you would need to hook the amp with a 4 ohm cabinet, or 2 8 ohm cabinets.
This Hartke cannot go to 2 ohm. If you use 2 4ohm cab (=2ohm) the head will explode.
Ohm is resistance, so less resistance, more wattage.

With the Carvin, you get 400w out of 4 ohm. So use a 4 ohm cab or 2 8 ohm cabs.
BUT. It can also go up to 600 w at 2 ohm! So you can use 2 4 ohm cab or a 4+8 ohm cab (2.67 ohm).

Check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carvin-BR615-600w-Bass-Amp-amplifier-Speaker-Cab-Combo_W0QQitemZ150367250913QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23029629e1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
It is the new BX600 in combo mode, for the same price of a new head, you get a 1x15 cabinet!!! So you will get ~250w out of the 15in, which is pretty loud. You probably don't need to get another cabinet. But if you want, get the 2x12 to get 4 ohm, which is 400w out.

You can also find this combo in Ebay, but with Neo speakers (much lighter), with a footswitch to change between channels, or even with upgraded speakers.

Getting a Hartke 3500 used + a 2x12 (which are uncommon) would be about $400. That combo is new, 600w at 2 ohm with a 15in speaker.
#11
That Combo Amp seems pretty wicked. But I really want a Head and Cab seperate just incase I ever decide to switch something up like get a different Cab or Head or something. I like the bit of extra versatility in that.

So I don't know, now I'm leaning towards the BX600 with a 2x12 Cab or something if I can find one. Were you able to find that little thing you were talkin about comparing the 10's and 12's?
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· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#12
2x12 are rare. Only ones I can think of are TC electronic, Mesa, Epifani, Aguilar, GK Neo's. Those are very expensive.

I can't find that article, but just between a 2x12 and 4x10. 4x10 has bigger speaker area, so it will be louder. But it also depends on quality of the driver and how well the enclosure is made. Front/Rear ported? 4x10 is more punchy, quicker response, tighter. 2x12 has more low end, more of the lower mids, so it's Looser.

I think the 410 would cut through more.

Best way is for you to try the different sizes out.

I like a more pronounced sound, with mids boosted, because we play pretty progressive/technical metalcore. So I don't want all my sound being too muddy. I rather be heard. We play drop C. And out crunched breakdown's sound pretty good through my 15 and 2x10.

Also, no matter what you get, 15, 12 or 10. It's gonna be pretty low. Your EQing is very important to how much low you want.
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#13
Yeah, I was just thinkin and I figured the the 12s or 15s would be a bit muddier and looser sounding. Maybe I'll go with a 4x10 or 2x10 setup. Would the 2x10 be too small though?
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· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
Amp & Accessories
· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#14
I understand that you can try out carvin, but try out the others. and see what you like.

A 4x10 can produce technically lows better then a 1x15 etc because it has more speakers that couple together, it uses less power for each speaker so they dont have to work as hard. ^^^^^, but if youre getting technical like that making a rig gets complicated, mainl;y because a 4x10 is the worst design made by man.

I would get the BX600 if you can 4 2x10's would be an excellent setup of speakers for your rig, easier to move, better then many other speaker cabs, and will produce all the lows you need. And your audience will be able to hear 2 2x10's vertically stacked better then a single or two 4x10's etc.
Also a vertical 2x12 would be ideal.
Yamaha TRB1006
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Ev 606L
Epiphone les paul
#15
The "volume" is based on a lot of different factors. 2x10 is smaller sized, so it wouldn't be as loud. But depending on your EQing, it could be louder, if you raise the frequencies that are easier for humans to hear.

My friend played an outdoor gig with my band last year with a Behringer 2x10 combo. And it was fine. He was against 2 guitar halfstack and doublebass drummer.

But if you get a 8 ohm 2x10 with the Carvin, you would be getting 250w out of it. If you got a 8ohm 410, you would get 250w out, but it would be 2x louder.
The 212 would be softer.
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#16
Hmm, Gwath42 posted a Link to a 2x12 setup by Avatar. The price looks pretty freakin good, now I'm just wondering how good it actually is.

What's the difference between 2 2x10 and 4x10?
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· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
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· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#17
A 4x10 is not going to be twice as loud, infact 2 2x10's vertically stacked will be beat it any day.
The avater 2x12 is good still, and the dispersion will be better then a 4x10. Honestly i say, get 2 1x15's 2 or 4 2x10's 12's, but dont get square cabs.
Yamaha TRB1006
Fender MIA jazz bass
Hora Hybrid double bass
Hartke lh 500
Ev 606L
Epiphone les paul
#18
Don't know if you noticed, but the 2x12 would actually be softer than the 4x10. My math was wrong. Just based on speaker surface area 4x10 is about 314. 2x12 is 226. (pi*r^2)*(# of speakers).

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/pictures/magazinearticle.jpg
Avatar's article. Talks about some difference between 2x12 and 4x10.
2x12 is leaner in the low end, more upper-midrange punch and bite, more authoritive.
4x10 is better if you want to "penetrate through" boomy room or walls of heavy guitars. (Quoted)

Avatar is very good quality. It's not as good as TC electronic, Mesa, Epifani, Aguilar, GK Neo 2x12.


http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Bass+Amp/product/Avatar/B212+Cabinet/10/1
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Bass+Amp/product/Avatar/B212+Neo+212+Cabinet/10/1

All rated 9.5+, with over 20 votes each features.
Some reviews. It's 2 250w 12'. So it's rated at 500w RMS. It's only 52 lbs!
In 4 ohm or 8 ohm. I would get 4 ohm so you get 400w out with the Carvin, or 350w out with the Hartke.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542084&highlight=avatar
Thats the Avatar owner club on Talkbass forum. As you can see, thats part 2. Part one exceeded the 51 page max.
Avatar is considered the best for it's price on Neo speakers.


EDITOh yeah, 2x10 vs 4x10. Very different. 4x10 is basically much louder. 2x10 is easier to carry though. 4x10 has better RMS rating usually.
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#19
Yes but youre actually just forgetting how speakers function and how sound travels. Sound or looks it seems. Do the research it makes more sense then whats on the market.
Yamaha TRB1006
Fender MIA jazz bass
Hora Hybrid double bass
Hartke lh 500
Ev 606L
Epiphone les paul
#20
Well 4x10 has more bottom end and casters. And the 2 2x10 will take 2 trips to carry. I never experienced 2 2x10 though, so I don't really know.

@Phry
To spend the least money. The Hartke and 1 2x10 would probably be enough. And you can always get another 2x10 or 4x10 or 1x15.
#21
So is the 2x12 Avatar considered a square cab? Haha.

Well if you say I'd be better off with the Carvin than the Hartke, I'd rather go with that. Though it's a decent difference in price, I don't wanna have to get a new Amp over time.
Guitars
· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
Amp & Accessories
· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
Last edited by Phry at Aug 22, 2009,
#22
The 2x12 is fine get it if you can.
Yamaha TRB1006
Fender MIA jazz bass
Hora Hybrid double bass
Hartke lh 500
Ev 606L
Epiphone les paul
#23
So when choosing a Cab, would I want one that matches the power-rating on the Amp? Such as something that runs 4 ohms at 400w or 8 ohms at 225? Unless I plan to run more than one cab?

Or is it that if I find a Cab that runs 400w at 8ohms that means I can change it to 4ohms and run more? Or wtf? Haha.

EDIT AGAIN...

Or how about just this... http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=SBX210
Guitars
· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
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· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
Last edited by Phry at Aug 22, 2009,
#24
That stacks great. But instead of that, I would get the stack with the BX600 and the 410 (non Neo). It would be better in the long run. You might find out that the 210 might not be enough.

The 2x10 you picked is 4 ohm. So you would get 400w out of your amp. If you decide to get another 4 ohm cabinet, it would add down to 2ohm, so 600w. That 2x10 is rated 600w at 4ohm. Your head is only 400 w at 4ohm. So it's good. Your not overpowering it.

If the cabinet was to run 400w at 8ohm. It would mean it could run ~600w at 4 ohm. Thats a really good cabinet.

When picking a cab, just make sure it can handle the amp.
Say, the Carvin runs ~250 at 8ohm. When picking a cabinet, make sure it is 300+ at 8ohm, so you don't blow it.


EDIT: If you want to go cheaper. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Acoustic-B200H-200W-Bass-Head-and-B115-250W-1x15-Bass-Cab-Package-483494-i1415333.gc

Is a good affordable stack. The head is 200w at 4ohm and the cabinet is 8ohm. So you would only use ~150w. Ive seen them play. It's plenty loud enough.
http://www.myspace.com/goliathbandnc
Last edited by gwath42 at Aug 22, 2009,
#25
I don't mind stickin to the Carvin since I want something that'll last me for the long run. Well, according to what FatGoogle said it might be better to get the 2x10 and if it's not loud enough I'll just try to pick up another or maybe even run a 12 or 15 along with it or something.

Aren't the Neo speakers better?
Guitars
· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
Amp & Accessories
· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10
#26
Neo speakers are better in that, they are light. Not necessarily sounds better than ceramic speakers.

Yeah. If you want, stick with the 2x10. Then get the 15 or 2x12 or 2x10 or 4x10.

There's many paths you can go. Best way is to try all the combination.

Through my experience, 1 2x10 isn't enough for most of my gigs.
I have a Peavey 115 combo, which I got a 2x10 on top. At 300w it works.
#27
Well most gigs will be Mic'd, so I think it should be good right?
Guitars
· Ibanez PF · Washburn WG-248 · Ibanez S520Ex
· Ibanez BTB455
· Schecter Studio 5
Amp & Accessories
· Peavey Valveking 212
· Carvin BX1200
· · TraceElliot 1028H
· · Custom 1x15 Eminence

· · Carvin BRX4.10