#1
Ok so I have recently invested in a 6 space rack unit, and I have purchased a BBE Sonic Maximizer, and an Alesis noise gate/compressor to compliment my guitar setup. Im running two 4x12 Crate half stacks, one with 30w celestions, the other with 35w celestions. I have been cycling between an older Peavey Supreme Transtube head and a Randall G3 150 Valvestate head. I run a Boss MT-2 Metalzone pedal and a Boss NS-2 Noise suppressor pedal as well.

Lately I have been dissapointed with the tones my amp has been giving me, the Randall in particular. I have a few extra rack spaces left and was thinking of investing in a one or two space rackmount power amp just for convenience. Ive heard that you need a Preamp in order to run a guitar through a poweramp, in order to bring the low level signal to a line level signal for the amp to amplify. Would I need a preamp with my rack gear? The boss stomp box distortion has alot of balls by itself, not to mention the +4db boost from the compressor, and whatever boost the sonic maximizer gives me if any. I know that this setup may sound a bit "sterile" to some, but in the game of heavy metal thats kind of what im looking for

Should I venture down the path of a SS power amp or just stick with a guitar amp? If I were to stick with a guitar amp I would have to upgrade that anyways, so money would be spent somewhere. Thanks in advance for all your help and suggestions.
#2
Quote by Mattdbnr
I have been cycling between an older Peavey Supreme Transtube head and a Randall G3 150 Valvestate head. I run a Boss MT-2 Metalzone pedal and a Boss NS-2 Noise suppressor pedal as well.

Lately I have been dissapointed with the tones my amp has been giving me,

Wa?


It was my understanding that sometimes Solid State power amps are preferred. What kind of heavy metal are you after? Can you be real specific?

You know,......'cause I really have no clue
#4
Yes, you need a preamp to amplify your signal so that the power amp can pick it up. And as far as power amps go, if you're just playing live, I would recommend an old Tubeworks Mos-Valve. Since you're not really concerned about tube tone it'd do fine in the studio as well.
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#5
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Wa?


It was my understanding that sometimes Solid State power amps are preferred. What kind of heavy metal are you after? Can you be real specific?

You know,......'cause I really have no clue



Both of my guitar head are Solid State for all intents and purposes. The Peavey Supreme Transtube is sort of a tube emulation technology, and the Randal G3 has a single Preamp tube in the preamp section, which honestly doesnt do anything. Yes a SS poweramp is what im after, but I dont have one yet and need to know if it would be a waste of time.
Last edited by Mattdbnr at Aug 23, 2009,
#6
Quote by mmolteratx
Yes, you need a preamp to amplify your signal so that the power amp can pick it up. And as far as power amps go, if you're just playing live, I would recommend an old Tubeworks Mos-Valve. Since you're not really concerned about tube tone it'd do fine in the studio as well.



I could understand if I used amp distortion to put gain on my signal, but essentially thats what my pedal is doing. My Metal Zone pedal is the effects processor in a sense, it has a 3 band EQ and a gain just like a preamp does, my sonic maximizer increases signal strength slightly, and the Compressor/Noise gate has a +4db boost switch and a gain knob as well. Im not arguing with you as to whether I need a preamp or not because Im sure you know more than me, but essentially isnt my setup doing what a dedicated single space preamp would do?
#7
Quote by Mattdbnr
Both of my guitar head are Solid State for all intensive purposes. The Peavey Supreme Transtube is sort of a tube emulation technology, and the Randal G3 has a single Preamp tube in the preamp section, which honestly doesnt do anything. Yes a SS poweramp is what im after, but I dont have one yet and need to know if it would be a waste of time.

INTENTS AND PURPOSES.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#8
Quote by bubb_tubbs
INTENTS AND PURPOSES.




Alright first of all, my apologies to those whom are actually trying to help me here, for my misspelling of "intents and purposes".

Bubb_Tubbs I appreciate you calling me out for misspelling something, but honestly unless you could actually help me in this thread relative to what I am trying to figure out please go elsewhere. Troll be gone!
Last edited by Mattdbnr at Aug 23, 2009,
#9
Quote by Mattdbnr
Alright first of all, my apologies to those whom are actually trying to help me here, for my misspelling of "intents and purposes".


More like epic fail...

You surely will need a preamp. Th power amp will not be able to pick up anything without it. Or you could test if your computer picks up the sound after it comes through your pedals... I find that my computer gets fuzz when I try to plug my guitar directly in... maybe it will do something if you run it through pedals. Not sure it will work, but hey... it's worth a shot.
#10
Quote by pokeatthedevil
More like epic fail...

You surely will need a preamp. Th power amp will not be able to pick up anything without it. Or you could test if your computer picks up the sound after it comes through your pedals... I find that my computer gets fuzz when I try to plug my guitar directly in... maybe it will do something if you run it through pedals. Not sure it will work, but hey... it's worth a shot.


Why is it an epic fail? Because I misspelled Intents and Purposes? Or perhaps because you think the spelling of "Misspelling" is wrong, sorry dude, that is the correct spelling. Who is the epic fail now?


I have gone directly from my pedal to my computer with no problems, and thats without the sonic maximizer and the compressor. Instrument level signal is not enough to send directly to a power amp, this much I know. I need to know if the line level coming from my rack unit is enough, or better yet how to determine the signal strength of the signal and compare that to the output of a preamp.
Last edited by Mattdbnr at Aug 23, 2009,
#11
I think it might work with just the Metal Zone (and the maximiser and the compressor). In my honest opinion, I expect it to sound rather terrible. But if you like it, go ahead.
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#12
Quote by Fama
I think it might work with just the Metal Zone (and the maximiser and the compressor). In my honest opinion, I expect it to sound rather terrible. But if you like it, go ahead.


Well it could sound terrible, but the only thing it would be missing is the coloring that would be given from a dedicated preamp. I expect it to sound pretty sterile, but then again, with the style I play that may be what im looking for.

My bass player has a 1400w poweramp, ill see if he will let me plug in my setup to his power amp to see how it would sound. The worst that could happen is it sounds like garbage and I have to get a preamp and a larger rack case.
#13
Quote by Mattdbnr
Well it could sound terrible, but the only thing it would be missing is the coloring that would be given from a dedicated preamp. I expect it to sound pretty sterile, but then again, with the style I play that may be what im looking for.

My bass player has a 1400w poweramp, ill see if he will let me plug in my setup to his power amp to see how it would sound. The worst that could happen is it sounds like garbage and I have to get a preamp and a larger rack case.


The worst that could happen is that you plug that into a guitar cabinet and blow out all the speakers, and then the poweramp.

Rethink your strategy, sir.
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#14
Quote by Mark G
The worst that could happen is that you plug that into a guitar cabinet and blow out all the speakers, and then the poweramp.

Rethink your strategy, sir.

Well, he'll have to use something that can take 1400W obviously. Hopefully you didn't think using a bass poweramp with guitar cabinets would be bad, since I don't think it would

But yes, if you're gonna use his poweramp you should use his cabinets too.
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#15
Quote by Fama
Well, he'll have to use something that can take 1400W obviously. Hopefully you didn't think using a bass poweramp with guitar cabinets would be bad, since I don't think it would

But yes, if you're gonna use his poweramp you should use his cabinets too.


Nah you can use bass poweramp with guitar cab, I was just making a point Make sure the guitar amp can handle the 1400w load
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#16
Quote by Mark G
Nah you can use bass poweramp with guitar cab, I was just making a point Make sure the guitar amp can handle the 1400w load



No I wouldnt dare use that poweramp with my cabs, I would use his 1800w 8x10 bass cabinet. If I went with a rack mount power amp I would not need that much wattage by any means, a couple hundred watts should be fine.
#17
I just thought of something, instead of worrying about preamps and such, wouldnt it be more cost effective and easier to just get a rack mountable bass head, which already has a preamp in it, and will have better eq settings than a standard guitar head?
#18
Just as an update guys, I picked up a 1U rackspace power amplifier and am able to play perfectly fine, I have more than enough volume and am able to control that volume through my Alesis Compressor/Noise Gate. It seems that I dont need a preamp after all. Now I have one rack space left in my 6 space, I think the next step for me is a 15 band EQ.

I would like to thank everyone for their help with this subject.