#1
What scales and keys do bands like Between the Buried and Me use?

Is there any point in learning scales that you don't even plan on using?
And why do people choose certain keys for a song over others- any specific reason?
#3
Quote by blue_strat
Learn to play their songs.

Is that your way of just saying figure it out?
Well I guess I could find the key(s), but the scale might be harder to figure out unless I actually know the scale.
#5
Quote by MustangMan311
Just check out tabs for Ants of the Sky and Prequel to the Sequel. Learn the major riffs in those songs and then put them in different keys.

Call me an idiot, but I don't get it. Also do you know the answers to my other questions?
#6
Learn the riffs that make a BTBAM song "sound like" BTBAM to you. Then, instead of starting a riff on the 5th fret or something, move it to a different fret and play it starting from there.

Also, different keys just have different sounds. It's all whatever pleases your ear.
#7
Quote by MustangMan311
Learn the riffs that make a BTBAM song "sound like" BTBAM to you. Then, instead of starting a riff on the 5th fret or something, move it to a different fret and play it starting from there.

Also, different keys just have different sounds. It's all whatever pleases your ear.


You're saying to find the key I want, find the one I like most?
Also I just read somewhere that you normally use the key of the lowest tuned string.

Is what you told me apply to figuring out the scale though?
#8
i dont know. but i think im on the right track.

minor scale for example is WHWWHWW am i right? just check that. (W means whole note, H means half note)

so if you start the minor scale on fret 3, high e string (on standard tuned guitar), then the scale will be this:

-3-4-6-8-9-11-13

-G-G#-A#-C-C#-D#-F

So if i understand things correctly, then what i have just written down is part of the G minor scale, since the root note is G (3rd fret, high E string).
thus: this is a minor scale in the key of G.

thats my understanding of it, and i dont know if its right. please will someone in the knowhow check me on this.

as far as which key to select. i think it has to do with personal preference.
for example, i tune my guitar to drop C tuning, however i have written a few songs in the E harmonic Minor scale.
it didnt make a difference, it still sounded good to me.

i think it depends on what sounds best to you, and what notes you like to play. for example (speaking in drop C tuning now). i love the like that goes like

D|---12-10-12-8-12-7-12-5-12-3-

(High D string in the tuning CGCFAD)

thats in the D minor scale, however i also play many songs in the C minor scale, which do not use all those notes, and so i can get a difference sound. its all about what i want to do.


hope this helps
#9
lol, I asked this question about Thrice a while back and got stuff like "if u cant figure it out urself it would be useless n e wai"

Just get the most BTBAM-sounding riffs and figure out the key, scale, etc. like MustangMan said.

You could cheat by opening it in guitar pro and using the scale finder.
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#10
TS: Next time you hear a song and think "what scale did they use for this riff/whatever?" Just remember: MAJOR OR MINOR. One of those will be the answer for literally 95%+ of all modern songs. Accidentals are also common; songs very rarely stick strictly to one scale.

With this knowledge, you can find the scale of lots of songs. About keys: It all depends on the singers' range and where the guitar players like to play on the fretboard.
#11
Quote by hxcmatt
What scales and keys do bands like Between the Buried and Me use?
whatever scales they want to

Is there any point in learning scales that you don't even plan on using? Yes, they are just another string to your bow. You don't need to use them, but you may come across their use.
And why do people choose certain keys for a song over others- any specific reason? if it sounds good to them they'll use it. Also a musician who has/is a singer will tend to choose their key to suit the vocals


As a general rule most musicians will use major or minor. I'd stick to learning those scales inside out before worrying about any others.
#12
Quote by FreakShow99

-3-4-6-8-9-11-13

-G-G#-A#-C-C#-D#-F

So if i understand things correctly, then what i have just written down is part of the G minor scale, since the root note is G (3rd fret, high E string).
thus: this is a minor scale in the key of G.

thats my understanding of it, and i dont know if its right. please will someone in the knowhow check me on this.


That's not a g minor scale. G minor is G A Bb C D Eb F. Tabbed on the high e that would be:
-3-5-6-8-10-11-13

Also, it's imperative that you use each letter only once and apply the necessary accidentals to fit the scale (provided it's a heptatonic scale).

Quote by FreakShow99


as far as which key to select. i think it has to do with personal preference.
for example, i tune my guitar to drop C tuning, however i have written a few songs in the E harmonic Minor scale.
it didnt make a difference, it still sounded good to me.

i think it depends on what sounds best to you, and what notes you like to play. for example (speaking in drop C tuning now). i love the like that goes like

D|---12-10-12-8-12-7-12-5-12-3-

(High D string in the tuning CGCFAD)

thats in the D minor scale, however i also play many songs in the C minor scale, which do not use all those notes, and so i can get a difference sound. its all about what i want to do.


It doesn't matter what your tonic is. A song in C minor will sound the same as a song in D minor, unless you have perfect pitch. The key is generally chosen based on the ranges of the instruments involved, and when multiple keys would fit all of the instruments' ranges, the key is arbitrary. That being said, when modulating, a modulation to C minor as opposed to D minor (on the assumption that the starting key was the same) will sound different.

It's not absolute pitch which determines the sound, its relative pitch AKA intervals. All minor scales have the same intervals.
#13
Quote by hotsnakes


You could cheat by opening it in guitar pro and using the scale finder.


Wow, never knew GP had that option.

Quote by timeconsumer09
TS: Next time you hear a song and think "what scale did they use for this riff/whatever?" Just remember: MAJOR OR MINOR. One of those will be the answer for literally 95%+ of all modern songs. Accidentals are also common; songs very rarely stick strictly to one scale.

With this knowledge, you can find the scale of lots of songs. About keys: It all depends on the singers' range and where the guitar players like to play on the fretboard.


I think that's good to know that 95% of all songs use major or minor songs. And that keys part about the singers' range, is it their range in notes-wonder how people figure out something like that- voice tuner lol?

Quote by Myshadow46_2
As a general rule most musicians will use major or minor. I'd stick to learning those scales inside out before worrying about any others.


So will learning all the different positions in one key for both major and minor be good enough? B/c then i'll just need to shift depending on the key, right?


Also, does anyone know if playing/writing a song in the key of an open low e string is alright?
ie. If the low e string open note is C, would using the C minor scale be good?
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 23, 2009,
#14
Quote by isaac_bandits
That's not a g minor scale. G minor is G A Bb C D Eb F. Tabbed on the high e that would be:
-3-5-6-8-10-11-13

Also, it's imperative that you use each letter only once and apply the necessary accidentals to fit the scale (provided it's a heptatonic scale).


It doesn't matter what your tonic is. A song in C minor will sound the same as a song in D minor, unless you have perfect pitch. The key is generally chosen based on the ranges of the instruments involved, and when multiple keys would fit all of the instruments' ranges, the key is arbitrary. That being said, when modulating, a modulation to C minor as opposed to D minor (on the assumption that the starting key was the same) will sound different.

It's not absolute pitch which determines the sound, its relative pitch AKA intervals. All minor scales have the same intervals.



Different keys/ranges/pitches are perceived differently by people. We've had discussions about this in MT before. Just because they're relatively the same doesn't mean there's no difference. That doesn't mean that a certain key is inherently sad, happy, mysterious, etc., but people do hear things with different...flavors. If you usually play in drop C or D standard, try playing those same songs in drop D and E standard. Or any number of equivalent tunings. You'll hear the difference. Not just in pitch, either.
#15
Quote by hxcmatt

So will learning all the different positions in one key for both major and minor be good enough? B/c then i'll just need to shift depending on the key, right?


It's a start, but don't just learn the positions. Learning where the notes are on the fretboard, learning what notes are in each scale (use the circle of fifths and then learn about relative minor), and then applying that knowledge so you know what notes you are playing, rather than just playing within a shape, is IMO the better approach.
#16
Quote by Myshadow46_2
It's a start, but don't just learn the positions. Learning where the notes are on the fretboard, learning what notes are in each scale (use the circle of fifths and then learn about relative minor), and then applying that knowledge so you know what notes you are playing, rather than just playing within a shape, is IMO the better approach.


You tell me to learn the fretboard like someone tells someone to learn their ABC's

I know the notes on the 5th and 6th string and from there know how to find the other notes. Is that good enough?

Also how do you construct a scale? If you had a c major scale : CDEFGABC
Let's say you start on idk... 3rd fret G, can i then choose any A on the fretboard or does it have to be the nearest one? And then do I find a B, then C, then D, etc, or does order not matter?
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 24, 2009,
#17
Quote by hxcmatt
You tell me to learn the fretboard like someone tells someone to learn their ABC's

I know the notes on the 5th and 6th string and from there know how to find the other notes. Is that good enough?

Also how do you construct a scale? If you had a c major scale : CDEFGABC
Let's say you start on idk... 3rd fret G, can i then choose any A on the fretboard or does it have to be the nearest one? And then do I find a B, then C, then D, etc, or does order not matter?


A scale is a set of notes. When you're playing, you don't have to stick to the 'pattern' of the scale. But if you want to play the scale up and down on the guitar, then the notes have to be in the same octave. i.e. if you start 3rd fret G, your next note is either 5th fret A or open 5th string A.
#18
Quote by timeconsumer09
Different keys/ranges/pitches are perceived differently by people. We've had discussions about this in MT before. Just because they're relatively the same doesn't mean there's no difference. That doesn't mean that a certain key is inherently sad, happy, mysterious, etc., but people do hear things with different...flavors. If you usually play in drop C or D standard, try playing those same songs in drop D and E standard. Or any number of equivalent tunings. You'll hear the difference. Not just in pitch, either.

I disagree, the only thing that changes when you play in a different key is pitch.. imo
#19
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
I disagree, the only thing that changes when you play in a different key is pitch.. imo


I guess it really is more of an individual perception thing. Oh well.
#20
Quote by timeconsumer09
Different keys/ranges/pitches are perceived differently by people. We've had discussions about this in MT before. Just because they're relatively the same doesn't mean there's no difference. That doesn't mean that a certain key is inherently sad, happy, mysterious, etc., but people do hear things with different...flavors. If you usually play in drop C or D standard, try playing those same songs in drop D and E standard. Or any number of equivalent tunings. You'll hear the difference. Not just in pitch, either.


I hear two differences. One is pitch, which I would not notice if there was a considerable amount of time between hearing the two songs, so the original pitch would no longer be in my head. The other is tone, which is caused by the reduced string tension; If heavier strings were used I wouldn't notice this difference.

In short, If I were to go play someone else's guitar which was set up in D Standard, and was playing alone, I would not be able to realize that all the songs I were to be playing were transposed a whole tone.
#21
Quote by isaac_bandits
I hear two differences. One is pitch, which I would not notice if there was a considerable amount of time between hearing the two songs, so the original pitch would no longer be in my head. The other is tone, which is caused by the reduced string tension; If heavier strings were used I wouldn't notice this difference.

In short, If I were to go play someone else's guitar which was set up in D Standard, and was playing alone, I would not be able to realize that all the songs I were to be playing were transposed a whole tone.

I would.
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