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#1
is dumb.

Why do people feel that their part of the world is inherently any better than any other part of the world? This seems especially rife in countries such as the USA and Australia - it's no wonder the rest of the world hates us.
I personally believe that patriotism is born from a dangerous cocktail of fear and stupidity. The very notion that a person's value is determined by the political borders in which they reside is absurd - why then do people still act patriotically?

What are your thoughts on patriotism?
#2
Nationalism, a sense of belonging, everyones got it in some sense.

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#5
I'm not patriotic. I just wasn't rbought up with the "British is Best" attitude that some here have That'll stem from not having a wholly British family, and my parent's attitude of "make your own decisions" regarding things like religion, education choices, that kind of thing. I can see why people would be patriotic- maybe it' comes from a sense of wanting to be part of something beyond just being a resident of a country.
#6
Tbh I think alot of patrotism comes from shame. Over-defensive, in a kinda offensive way, you know? Just the way I look at it sometimes. Not always though.
Quote by WtrPlyr
Quote by alans056
Maybe the price tag is clouding your judgment ?
yeah probably. Or the circuits.
#7
Quote by valennic
Nationalism, a sense of belonging, everyones got it in some sense.


I know where I was born and brought up but have no sense of nationalism, it's barbaric and frankly should be an obsolete chain of thought in modern society. Why do people feel the need to act this way?
#11
I love Wales. I don't think that it's any better than any other country though (apart from england, but that's just a running joke...) There's nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from and your heritage and history.

Don't let your boat be empty, don't be a sunken dream
Don't let the boat regret thee, for what you could have seen

#12
I'm more of a cosmopolitan, I don't particularly identify with anyplace. I'd rather be a global citizen than tied to one country.
#13
People who are patriotic aren't necessarily the scum of the earth. The fact that the world is a very hostile place calls for a degree of patriotism. However, it's the scumbags that enfore the patriotic ideal as a means of ridding their respective countries of immigration, etc that do my head in.
Ego inflating praise here:
Quote by Fishyesque
That is SOOOOOOOOOOO sig worthy! Pure awesomeness to you, sir.

C wut I did thar Fishy?

's UG
#14
Nothing wrong with loving your country and having some sense of pride of where you're from.

When it mixes with stupidity, a false sense of superiority and entitlement and propoganda, then you've got a problem.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#16
Quote by MetalMusicianAl
i'm proud to be an american


So you're proud that you were born and are living somewhere? Wow, isn't that grand and unique..

It's this type of attitude that breeds contempt towards the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives being taken in Iraq, and this kind of attitude will welcome all the war criminals back into their homes without blinking an eyelid
#17
I think it's okay, but also we should be proud to be part of the same human race, and think of ourselves as a unified world; patriotism only helps strengthen borders.
#18
Quote by teegman
So you're proud that you were born and are living somewhere? Wow, isn't that grand and unique..

It's this type of attitude that breeds contempt towards the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives being taken in Iraq, and this kind of attitude will welcome all the war criminals back into their homes without blinking an eyelid


Kudos - how can one be proud of something that one doesn't control or create?
Be proud of what you achieve, not a chance of birth.
#19
I'm proud of my Saami heritage but I'm not proud to be British, European, anything like that really. Except when assmilating with groups that contrast with America.

Generally I agree with TS. I'd much rather think of myself as a global citizen than be a jerk because I'm from a certain part of the planet.
#21
Quote by dann_blood
Nothing wrong with loving your country and having some sense of pride of where you're from.

When it mixes with stupidity, a false sense of superiority and entitlement and propoganda, then you've got a problem.


+1
#22
Quote by ChucklesMginty

There's nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from, yes there are evident flaws.

lol, it's either one way or the other...

Quote by ChucklesMginty

I'm not proud to live in UK, but I truly appreciate how lucky I am that I don't live in a 3rd world country or a place destroyed by war. Appreciate how much you have where you are TS, and think about how your country could be.

If patriotism didn't exist then I wouldn't be relying on luck to be born in a well off country or a place not destroyed by war.
#23
Quote by teegman
If patriotism didn't exist then I wouldn't be relying on luck to be born in a well off country or a place not destroyed by war.

Somehow I don't see capitalist countries like America suddenly getting up and actively participating to better the international community if the population stopped being so patriotic...

Patriotism doesn't cause such a type of selfishness and the two don't correlate.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#24
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I'm not patriotic. I just wasn't rbought up with the "British is Best" attitude that some here have That'll stem from not having a wholly British family, and my parent's attitude of "make your own decisions" regarding things like religion, education choices, that kind of thing. I can see why people would be patriotic- maybe it' comes from a sense of wanting to be part of something beyond just being a resident of a country.


It's odd, I never consider Britain as being best at anything. I'm constantly bombarded with messages telling me why Britain is so crap.

Anyway, I'm alright with being British. But I'm more proud, happy, call it what you will, at being part Irish.

It's stupid, but I think it comes down to Irish accents being better.
#25
Quote by Don_Humpador
It's odd, I never consider Britain as being best at anything. I'm constantly bombarded with messages telling me why Britain is so crap.

Anyway, I'm alright with being British. But I'm more proud, happy, call it what you will, at being part Irish.

It's stupid, but I think it comes down to Irish accents being better.



You didn't study the British Empire at school?

Or learn how Britain saved the world in WW2, oh and then the yanks dropped this big bomb or some shit.

Or learn about how British culture and language has influenced America?


Srsly, everything I did in History, English, Science, seemed to focus on how Britain rocks.

(I don't agree, I had my family telling me about my other heritages and how much better they are, just sayin')
#26
Patriotism =/= your country is best. Patriotism is having pride in your country. I feel very blessed to be born in the USA, rather than some 3rd world country. Is that so wrong of me? I'm not saying my life (or any other American life) is worth more than any other life. But I can sure be happy about where I was born.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
You didn't study the British Empire at school?

Or learn how America saved the world in WW2, oh and then the yanks dropped this big bomb or some shit.

Or learn about how British culture and language has influenced America?


Srsly, everything I did in History, English, Science, seemed to focus on how Britain rocks.

(I don't agree, I had my family telling me about my other heritages and how much better they are, just sayin')


Fixed
#28
Quote by dann_blood
Somehow I don't see capitalist countries like America suddenly getting up and actively participating to better the international community if the population stopped being so patriotic...

Patriotism doesn't cause such a type of selfishness and the two don't correlate.

If the American government saw Iraqi citizens as equal to their own citizens, would they still have deemed it acceptable to murder hundreds of thousands of them? Furthermore, would they have been willing to murder hundreds of thousands of their own citizens for the same resolve?
#29
I can't believe people are fighting over which country is better, what a stupid debate. We're all just made of atoms and one's Oxygen or Hydrogen atoms are no better that anyone else's, no matter within what borders anyone live.
Average UG fapper
#30
Ironically, whenever I see an Australian being patriotic, in my mind I see them waving an American flag. Does anyone else think that patriotism is, ironically, inherently American?
...In my opinion.
#31
Quote by teegman
If the American government saw Iraqi citizens as equal to their own citizens, would they still have deemed it acceptable to murder hundreds of thousands of them? Furthermore, would they have been willing to murder hundreds of thousands of their own citizens for the same resolve?


Sources? I'd sure like to hear about this Iraqi genocide that you keep talking about.
#32
Quote by timeconsumer09
Patriotism =/= your country is best. Patriotism is having pride in your country. I feel very blessed to be born in the USA, rather than some 3rd world country. Is that so wrong of me? I'm not saying my life (or any other American life) is worth more than any other life. But I can sure be happy about where I was born.



You sicken me.
#33
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
You didn't study the British Empire at school?

Or learn how Britain saved the world in WW2, oh and then the yanks dropped this big bomb or some shit.

Or learn about how British culture and language has influenced America?


Srsly, everything I did in History, English, Science, seemed to focus on how Britain rocks.

(I don't agree, I had my family telling me about my other heritages and how much better they are, just sayin')


Go easy on me

None of the education that I received lead me to believe this country was any better than any other.
#34
Quote by teegman
You sicken me.


Why? Is it so wrong to be thankful about good things that happen in my life? Or should I just feel like shit because I'm not crying about how I wasn't born in Darfur?
#35
Quote by timeconsumer09
Why? Is it so wrong to be thankful about good things that happen in my life? Or should I just feel like shit because I'm not crying about how I wasn't born in Darfur?

I hope he was being sarcastic, really. I think you're in the right.
#37
Quote by timeconsumer09


Fixed


Americans didn't stop the Nazis, Brits did.

I only studied the standard levels of History at school, I didn't do GCSE or A level in it, so I'd be interested to hear an unbiased view of this. But what I learnt in my British education was that it was Britain and the commonwealth fighting the Nazis from 1939-1945, and the Americans didn't do anything until they dropped a bomb in 1945 after Hitler was already dead, effectively doing nothing but testing out bombs on some race they didn't really care about.
(not trying to troll, that's seriously what I was taught, tell me if I'm wrong)

Quote by Don_Humpador


Go easy on me

None of the education that I received lead me to believe this country was any better than any other.


out of interest, as a fellow Londoner, whereabouts are you from and what school did you go to?
I went to an uber-christian school in Ruislip (near Harrow) so that might have something to do with what I got taught
#39
Quote by teegman
If the American government saw Iraqi citizens as equal to their own citizens, would they still have deemed it acceptable to murder hundreds of thousands of them? Furthermore, would they have been willing to murder hundreds of thousands of their own citizens for the same resolve?


http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8080.html

I'd recommend giving this a read. Really quite insightful.

Quote by timeconsumer09

Fixed


What, by turning up late and taking all the credit?
Last edited by webbtje at Aug 25, 2009,
#40
Quote by teegman
If the American government saw Iraqi citizens as equal to their own citizens, would they still have deemed it acceptable to murder hundreds of thousands of them? Furthermore, would they have been willing to murder hundreds of thousands of their own citizens for the same resolve?

What makes you think it was fuelled by patriotism? One of the main contributions to so many Iraqi civilian casualties is to minimize American and Allied casualties. Is political and social pressure a factor in that? Yes. Is that pressure caused by patriotism? Debateable. Is the act itself an act of patriotism? Hardly.
If you're given the choice between killing, say, your brother as opposed to someone you've never met, who do you choose? If you're given the choice of protecting the lives of a group of people you know and like, but at the expense of a group of people you don't know or particularly like, who do you choose?
Simple tribal instinct kicking in. You're more likely to put those in your group ahead of others. Patriotism is no more a cause of that than it is a cause of comradeship.

I agree that patriotism causes quite a few bad effects both domestically and internationally. What you've just said there though isn't related.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
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