Page 1 of 2
#1
I'm saving up for some more high quality gear for when I'm gigging and possibly recording someday.

Anyhow I've been wanting a really high end amp head as well.


I play a lot of metal

Death, Trivium, Annihilator, Sepultura, Children of Bodom, Sylosis, In Flames, John Petrucci, ACDC, Megadeth, Metallica, Pantera, Death, Lamb of God, Machine Head, Martyr, Judas Priest, Paul Gilbert, Joe Satriani, Dream Theater, Cynic etc.

My favorite genres of metal are thrash and death I guess.


I want an amp head that will be able to do some of that there BR00T4L metal (lol) but I would like at least a little versatility because I like experimenting and adding other elements to my music.


The two that I've becoming interested in are the

Engl Invader

and

Mesa Boogie Mark IV/Mark V


Suggestions and thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance.
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
Last edited by TheBodomBullet at Aug 26, 2009,
#2
Budget?
Location?
New or used?
Gigging or no?
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#3
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
Budget?
Location?
New or used?
Gigging or no?



I don't really have a specific budget but maybe around 1000-1700 USD somewhere around that range give or take.


United States

Try to keep it new but if it's really good throw some used suggestions in as well

Gigging is a yes
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#4
The Boogies will probably require a boost to get the amount of gain you're looking for, but it's a nice versatile amp.

I don't have experience with the Invader, but I own a Savage, and I can tell you it's an amazing amp that will cover any sub genre of metal, and even some hard rock. The cleans are also great, and the FX loops takes pedals very well.

The general consensus seems to be that the Invader is more versatile than the Savage, and that the Savage is more of a metal amp than the Invader.

Might need to increase your budget a little to get that Invader.

I used to own a Triple Rectifier, and I really got tired of it. It NEEDED a boost in front of it to even sound decent, and it wasn't very versatile. It also didn't take pedals well on the dirty channels.

If I were you I'd go with ENGL. I simply prefer ENGL voicing over Mesa. That's me, though.
Last edited by Jam3V at Aug 25, 2009,
#5
Quote by TheBodomBullet
I don't really have a specific budget but maybe around 1000-1700 USD somewhere around that range give or take.


United States

Try to keep it new but if it's really good throw some used suggestions in as well

Gigging is a yes

the Savage is a great choice and also look at the:

Randall V2 Archtype or Ninja
Randall MTS series
Baron MII60
Granger Lead Overdrive 100
Mako Dorado
Peavey 6505+
ENGL Savage
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#6
Dude, I'd get the 5150 III, its part of Eddie Van Halens new line of products, but like if u already have like a amp, then just buy the headstock u wont even need a distortion pedal
"To love someone is to see him as God intended him"
#7
Quote by Aspenboy
Dude, I'd get the 5150 III, its part of Eddie Van Halens new line of products, but like if u already have like a amp, then just buy the headstock u wont even need a distortion pedal

wat
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#8
I was also going to suggest a Mark IV until I saw you were thinking of one :P
I have not played a Mark V so I'm not sure if thats what your looking for exactly, but I own a Mark IV and it meets MOST of the criteria you listed.

I would agree, it does not have enough gain for SUP3R Br00T4L metal on its own.
But if you love that super tight distortion on Master of Puppets or Ashes of the Wake, then the Mark IV is a winner.

Its also incredibly versatile, you can dramatically change the sound by bumping the graphic EQ up ever so slightly.
#9
got to EVHgear.com and look at the products
"To love someone is to see him as God intended him"
#10
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
wat


something about buying eddies new line of shoes or something
#11
Quote by Aspenboy
got to EVHgear.com and look at the products

no... wat do you mean by head stock?
and i cant understand almost half the stuff you said in your last post.... but i suck at english so yea.
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#12
He probably meant an amp's head and thinks it's short for headstock...
Generation 11. The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the number. Social Experiment.[/B]
#13
Quote by Mailbox Guitar
He probably meant an amp's head and thinks it's short for headstock...

so what does not buying distortion pedal have to do with buying a "Headstock"
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#14
I have no idea. I was just guessing at what he meant. maybe the head has good enough distortion to not need one.
Generation 11. The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the number. Social Experiment.[/B]
#15
exacly mailbox, look thats what i call the amp head, thats what my buddys call it, its what alot of ppl where im from call it ok?
"To love someone is to see him as God intended him"
#16
Quote by Aspenboy
exacly mailbox, look thats what i call the amp head, thats what my buddys call it, its what alot of ppl where im from call it ok?

where are you from?
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#17
I was looking into the Savage

Looks great but how versatile is it?
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#18
WTF - I'm in the same boat as you man... I have no clue what that guy's trying to say or imply.


TS: Have a look at the Randall MTS series - great technology in those amps.

A Mesa might work but you'd need to boost it to get the gain you're looking for.

Peavey 5150/6505 might be your cup of tea, but the cleans are "meh" so it is a bit limited in the versatility department.

The Peavey JSX is a versatile amp with plenty of gain on tap - not everyone's cup of tea though.

The new Peavey 3120 (I believe that's what it is called, correct me if I'm wrong) looks pretty decent. I haven't really heard anything about it but it may be worth checking out.

Krank Revolution or Krankenstein do high gain stuff with ease, however Krank amps tend to be a bit muddy so they aren't for everyone.

You could also look into used amps like an Engl Powerball, Rivera Knucklehead, VHT Pitbull, etc.
#19
CO, suburbs of Denver
"To love someone is to see him as God intended him"
#20
Quote by Aspenboy
CO, suburbs of Denver


Well you guys need to brush up on your terminology. A "headstock" is part of a guitar - ya know, where the tuning pegs/machine heads/[insert local term here] are located.
#22
Quote by i_am_metalhead
WTF - I'm in the same boat as you man... I have no clue what that guy's trying to say or imply.


TS: Have a look at the Randall MTS series - great technology in those amps.

A Mesa might work but you'd need to boost it to get the gain you're looking for.

Peavey 5150/6505 might be your cup of tea, but the cleans are "meh" so it is a bit limited in the versatility department.

The Peavey JSX is a versatile amp with plenty of gain on tap - not everyone's cup of tea though.

The new Peavey 3120 (I believe that's what it is called, correct me if I'm wrong) looks pretty decent. I haven't really heard anything about it but it may be worth checking out.

Krank Revolution or Krankenstein do high gain stuff with ease, however Krank amps tend to be a bit muddy so they aren't for everyone.

You could also look into used amps like an Engl Powerball, Rivera Knucklehead, VHT Pitbull, etc.


Hm

Well if it's one thing I'd prefer to get something that doesn't need to be boosted with pedal.
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#23
Quote by Aspenboy
Well excuse me


No need to get an attitude - I was actually trying to help you out so you didn't make the same mistake again.

The last thing we need on UG are posts with incorrect terms because they don't help anyone out and just lead to confusion and frustration


TS: I would stay away from Mesa's then. They are very versatile amps and they sound great but they don't have an excessive amount of gain like some other amps on the market.
#24
TS here are some clips of the amps i posted

Mako Dorado
http://www.makoamplification.com/sounds.html

Granger Lead Overdrive 100
http://grangeramp.com/lead_overdrive_100.php

Baron MI60L or MII60/100 or K88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdY-PQAVWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLp1uRgW3jw&feature=channel

Randall V2 (just search for the Archtype and the Ninja)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HWi9oYBoU
PSN USERNAME: MetuulGuitarist7
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#25
Peavey JSX FTW.

Trivium sucks.
ESP LTD EX400
Epi Explorer
Peavey JSX
Egnater Cab
DD7;NS2;ML2;RC20XL;BCB60;FS6;PH3
ISP Decimator
KH Wah
Pocket POD
Simmons SD9K

Quote by TheBodomBullet

Thank you, you've all been very informative and helpful (except you Mr_CiNiC, f*ck you.)
Love you too, babe.
#26
Quote by Mr_CiNiC
Trivium sucks.

*reported*
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#27
I would say go with the Randall MTS Series. You can get the RM50 combo and two modules for $1400. If you want to go with a head and cab setup, then that would probably be about $1900, depending on what cab you get. For modules, i would go with the Blackface for clean. As for high gain, check out these clips to help you decide.

http://www.bandslink.com/randall.htm

I would suggest the Grail, SL+, Ultra XL, 1086, or KH-3 for hi gain. But you might also want to consider some mods. There are three modders i know of, and they are all on the MTS forum. Pete Turely (okstrat on MTS forum), Anthony (Salvation on MTS forum), and Rob (Jaded Faith on MTS forum). Here are my suggested mods

1) Jaded Faith Recto
Stock module used: recto/treadplate....or anything based off of a mesa rectifier
Sound: many say it sounds better than the actual rectifier.
Cost: $140 for mod....$200 for module.

2) Pete's 1087
Stock module used: 1086
Sound: sounds amazing with heavy strings tuned to low tunings. I use 12's tuned to C and it sounds incredible. When i had 10's tuned to D, i could tell it was missing something...it wasn't full enough. The 12's fixed that.
Cost: ~$200 for mod, $260 for module

3) Salvation 1666
Stock Module used: 1086 or any hi gain module (i think)
Sound: can't say much, but i hear it is pretty good. You can listen to some clips on the MTS forum.
Cost: $180

4) Salvation Benzin
Stock Module used: any mid to hi gain module
Based off of: Diezel VH4?
Sound: listen to clips. i think it sounds amazing (but so do all of his mods).
Cost: ~$200

5) Salvation Pit Viper
Stock: any mid to hi gain
Based on: Framus Cobra
Sound: listen to clips.
Cost: ~$200

6) Salvation Deadplate
Stock: any mid to hi gain
Based on: i think it is custom....
Sound: clips...
Cost: ~$200

7) Pete's Mesa Mark Series mod
Stock: Ultra Lead; not made anymore...you will have to search around for it...
Based on: Mesa Mark Series preamp?
Sound: he has vid....it sounds really good.
Cost: ~$200

8) Pete's Recto
Stock: Recto/Treadplate or Grail
Sound: sounds great...listen to vids on youtube. links on forum
Cost: $200

9) Salvation Custom 3
Stock: any mid to hi gain
Based on: Megadeth tone i think?
Sound: Probably his most popular mod. Should sound amazing just like all his other mods
Cost: ~$200

Go to the "rigs and tones" section to find Anthony's mods and clips and "gigamods" section to find Pete's vids. Rob is working on his.

http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/index.php

There are more mods....these are just the ones off the top of my head.

NOTE about the tubes in the RM50. You can get three different wattages depending on the power tubes you use. JJ 6V6's (only JJ's) will get you 25W. 6L6's, EL34's, E34L's, KT66's, and KT77's will get you 50W. 6550's and KT88's will get you 80W. Just bias them to the recommended levels and you set. There is a vid on youtube showing you how. Bias the JJ 6V6's to 18-22 mV.

Good Luck.
"If A is a success in life, then A equals x + y + z. Work = x; y = play; and z = keeping your mouth shut."
--Einstein

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
--Einstein
#28
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
*reported*


Man, I wish I was as cool as you.</sarcasm>

On topic, yeah, Peavey 5150 is good, my friend has one, but the clean channel is nonexistant, you'd have to pick lightly to get clean even slightly.
ESP LTD EX400
Epi Explorer
Peavey JSX
Egnater Cab
DD7;NS2;ML2;RC20XL;BCB60;FS6;PH3
ISP Decimator
KH Wah
Pocket POD
Simmons SD9K

Quote by TheBodomBullet

Thank you, you've all been very informative and helpful (except you Mr_CiNiC, f*ck you.)
Love you too, babe.
#29
i would look into a used peavey jsx. ive seen them go as low as $600 USD

07 Fender American Deluxe Strat
07 Fender Custom Telecaster
09 Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster
09 Fulltone OCD V.4
10 Ibanez WH-10 V.2
09 Splawn SuperStock
10 Jet City JCA-20
97 Fender Hot Rod Deluxe

Yeh the SICK! bit sounds a bit stupid.

#30
Don't know where you are exactly in Jersey and some of these I found for someone else but I'll post them all anyway.....good luck.


Peavey XXX head and cab $800 (talk down or get head only)
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/msg/1329341933.html

Line 6 Flextone II head $275 (needs cab)
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1329110131.html

Peavey 5150 head $600 (needs cab)
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1327459648.html

B52 ST100 head $300 (needs cab) I know, I know...
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1324075255.html

Peavey Classic 30 $475
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1318698650.html

Mesa Boogie SOB tube combo $500 (never heard of it but it looks interesting
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1313386309.html

Line 6 Spider Valve $600 (not sure really)
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1313358057.html

Mesa Boogie Rocket 44 combo $500
http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/1309937067.html


NY NY 0823

JSX 212 combo $700
http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/msg/1332292046.html


New Jersey 0825

JCM 2000 combo $500
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/msg/1341822690.html

Rivera Knucklehead and MG cab $800
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/msg/1339388551.html
#31
Quote by Mr_CiNiC
Man, I wish I was as cool as you.</sarcasm>

He's trying to clean up the forum from stupid comments like yours and you're treating it like its no big deal. Seriously bud, have fun while your banned .
My Rig
Mesa Triple Rectifier Half Stack
Jackson USA King V 2
1988 American Made Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom w/Bigsby
Line 6 Spider III 75 Watt
#32
one of the most brutal threads ive read, and im not talkin about the amps :P
but on topic: a peavey 5150/6505 would be good for you if you want a ****e load of gain.
#33
Let's say I wanted to compare:

Engl Invader or Savage

Mesa Boogie Mark IV/V

Peavy 6505+


Anybody want to give me the basic lowdown on them and maybe a comparison?
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#34
Quote by Travis39
He's trying to clean up the forum from stupid comments like yours and you're treating it like its no big deal. Seriously bud, have fun while your banned .

thanks travis
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#35
Quote by TheBodomBullet
Let's say I wanted to compare:

Engl Invader or Savage

Mesa Boogie Mark IV/V

Peavy 6505+


Anybody want to give me the basic lowdown on them and maybe a comparison?


ENGL Savage
Great clean channel, takes pedals very well, ridiculous amounts of gain (you'll never need a boost, or even come close to maxing the gain), 2 effects loops, great for hard to rock to the heaviest high gain metal

Mark IV/V
Versatile amp, decent gain (you'll need a boost for high gain stuff), good clean channel, lots of features to aid in getting your desired tone, great for rock to progressive metal. Great all around amp, if you don't mind using a boost at times.

Peavey 6505+
Notoriously poor clean channel, plenty of gain (lots of people like to boost them, however), in my opinion this amp lacks the character of the above 2 (but is also significantly cheaper). Good for hard rock to metal. Kind of a one trick pony.

Do you want to save money? : Peavey 6505+

Do you want virtually unlimited gain? : Savage

Do you ultimately want versatility and features? : Mark IV/V

Another thing to consider is the uniqueness you want in your sound. If you go to see a metal band there's pretty much a 75% chance you'll find a Peavey 5150, 6505, etc being used. Savages aren't that common. Mark series amps seemed to be more common in the 80's, but less so now. However, the Mesa "sound" is certainly very common, as lots of bands use Rectifiers. Though people argue the Mark series amps sound drastically different from Rectifiers.

Search Harmony Central reviews. They're actually really helpful in determining equipment purchases. Sorry I couldn't help with the Invader. But just think of it as a more open sounding, more versatile version of the Savage, with a bit less gain on tap.
Last edited by Jam3V at Aug 26, 2009,
#36
Quote by Jam3V
ENGL Savage
Great clean channel, takes pedals very well, ridiculous amounts of gain (you'll never need a boost, or even come close to maxing the gain), 2 effects loops, great for hard to rock to the heaviest high gain metal

Mark IV/V
Versatile amp, decent gain (you'll need a boost for high gain stuff), good clean channel, lots of features to aid in getting your desired tone, great for rock to progressive metal. Great all around amp, if you don't mind using a boost at times.

Peavey 6505+
Notoriously poor clean channel, plenty of gain (lots of people like to boost them, however), in my opinion this amp lacks the character of the above 2 (but is also significantly cheaper). Good for hard rock to metal. Kind of a one trick pony.

Do you want to save money? : Peavey 6505+

Do you want virtually unlimited gain? : Savage

Do you ultimately want versatility and features? : Mark IV/V

Another thing to consider is the uniqueness you want in your sound. If you go to see a metal band there's pretty much a 75% chance you'll find a Peavey 5150, 6505, etc being used. Savage's aren't that common. Mark series amps seemed to be more common in the 80's, but less so now. However, the Mesa "sound" is certainly very common, as lots of bands use Rectifiers. Though people argue the Mark series amps sound drastically different from Rectifiers.

Search Harmony Central reviews. They're actually really helpful in determining equipment purchases.


Thanks a lot for this comparison.

I would like to think about either one of the Mark Mesa's or the Engl Savage.

The thing is I'm not sure on how the whole pickup-to-amp things work. One thing I'm worried about is that I'll have a Dimarzio X2n in the bridge position and that is notoriously hot, so I'd be afraid that if I went with something like the Savage then there would be so much gain it would go to mud.


Meanwhile that Mesa seems very versatile.
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#37
Quote by TheBodomBullet
Thanks a lot for this comparison.

I would like to think about either one of the Mark Mesa's or the Engl Savage.

The thing is I'm not sure on how the whole pickup-to-amp things work. One thing I'm worried about is that I'll have a Dimarzio X2n in the bridge position and that is notoriously hot, so I'd be afraid that if I went with something like the Savage then there would be so much gain it would go to mud.


Meanwhile that Mesa seems very versatile.

turn teh gain down
and using your guitar volume also helps
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#38
Quote by WTF!!is a TAB
turn teh gain down
and using your guitar volume also helps

Would that really be sufficient?

(serious question, I don't know lol)
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
#39
That's definitely a valid concern. I've been through a number of "hot" pickups in search of the "grail tone." What I've learned, for my town taste anyway, is that I want to let the amp do all the work.

Super hot pickups just lead to a sterile sound, no matter what you put them through. On the other hand, you can have a "medium hot" pickup and still get a nice dynamic sound through a low or high gain amp.

If you like the way that X2N sounds through whatever you're playing now, you don't really need to worry about the amp. The amp won't take anything away from your sound in that department - that's all done by the pickup before it reaches the amp.

With hot pickups I just roll the gain and treble back and get a nice creamy sound. I use a Duncan JB and BareKnuckle Nailbomb through my Savage, and they both sound incredible through it.

If you are worried about mud, I'd worry about owning that Mark series. Mesa amps, in my opinion (and seems to be the general consensus on the internet) are muddy. That's why they need to be boosted. My Rectifier was just awful in that department. I couldn't even stand to listen to it without a boost, it was so muddy.

I literally spent an entire week on YouTube listening to amp demos and reading reviews on various sites before I made the decision to sell my Rectifier and buy a Savage.

Here's the video that sold me on the Savage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnoFsXW6kHM

Here's another video of the same guy playing some Dream Theater on the Savage : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpE1J3lgb4

I really considered the Mark series when i was amp hunting, but not 1 of the demos could convince me. They all sounded pretty mediocre.

It probably seems like I'm pushing the Savage on you, and I am. I'm obviously biased (I own the damn thing), so take that into consideration. But also, I wouldn't be pushing it if it didn't seem like it's almost exactly what you're looking for.
Last edited by Jam3V at Aug 26, 2009,
#40
Quote by Jam3V
That's definitely a valid concern. I've been through a number of "hot" pickups in search of the "grail tone." What I've learned, for my town taste anyway, is that I want to let the amp do all the work.

Super hot pickups just lead to a sterile sound, no matter what you put them through. On the other hand, you can have a "medium hot" pickup and still get a nice dynamic sound through a low or high gain amp.

If you like the way that X2N sounds through whatever you're playing now, you don't really need to worry about the amp. The amp won't take anything away from your sound in that department - that's all done by the pickup before it reaches the amp.

With hot pickups I just roll the gain and treble back and get a nice creamy sound. I use a Duncan JB and BareKnuckle Nailbomb through my Savage, and they both sound incredible through it.

If you are worried about mud, I'd worry about owning that Mark series. Mesa amps, in my opinion (and seems to be the general consensus on the internet) are muddy. That's why they need to be boosted. My Rectifier was just awful in that department. I couldn't even stand to listen to it without a boost, it was so muddy.

I literally spent an entire week on YouTube listening to amp demos and reading reviews on various sites before I made the decision to sell my Rectifier and buy a Savage.

Here's the video that sold me on the Savage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnoFsXW6kHM

Here's another video of the same guy playing some Dream Theater on the Savage : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpE1J3lgb4

I really considered the Mark series when i was amp hunting, but not 1 of the demos could convince me. They all sounded pretty mediocre.

It probably seems like I'm pushing the Savage on you, and I am. I'm obviously biased (I own the damn thing), so take that into consideration. But also, I wouldn't be pushing it if it didn't seem like it's almost exactly what you're looking for.

I see


Hm...well I'm starting to REALLY like the Savage now


Thank you.

Thank all of you. You've all been very informative and helpful (except you Mr_CiNiC, fvck you.)


Thanks everyone!
-----
Currently using:
B.C. Rich NJ Deluxe Jr. V
B.C. Rich Revenge Warlock
Bugera 6262 212 120 Watt amp :

Coming soon:
B.C. Rich Pro X Mockingbird Hardtail
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