#1
What guitar would give me deep dark crunch tones. Les Paul like tone, buy strat like body. Would any mohagany body, humbucking guitar give me this.
#2
It's more about the amp than the guitar. Basicly anything with decent Humbuckers. Amps like the Peavey 5150 are known for there high gain output thus creating a crunch.
#3
I was about to say: it's the gain from amps or distortion/overdrive from pedals that gives the crunch. Once you have said crunch, humbucking pickups give the 'full' sound.
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#4
Scooping the mids hurts the crunch.

Add mids until you have enough. The reasoning behind it all is that..the guitar sits in the mid range so..you dont necessarily need mids to cut through the mix. Some amps have great crunch in settings with no mids..but they would still have more if the player added a little.

Be careful though. With some amps too much mid presence will hurt harmonics.

High Gain amps are great for crunch, but rectifiers are not the stereotypical standard of what we consider "Standard" crunch. Rectifiers, generally speaking have a drier cutting tone. It comes out like a beam. Classic tube designs have a creamy tone that spreads out and lays a rich coating of sound over the entire room. The high gain peaveys and Marshalls..kinda

Marshalls are known for their crunch but that is actually false..technically. The reason I wanted to point this out is because some players are dissapointed with their Marshalls when they finally get one. They dont know that the "Marshall" tone they have grown accustomed to is actually compressed.

I am not belittling Marshalls in any way. They are great amps..but the tone most metal players know as Marshall is tweaked. Compression can make a huge difference in tone when you are using the Rhythm tekniks of metal. So there is a huge misconception about what the Marshall tone actually is.

If you want to combine the Les Paul and the Strat...The SG is probably right up your alley. Ibanez makes hss models that also fit the bill. V models will also give you the powerful tone, plus upper fret acces.

I dont mean to come off as a jerk. I just don't want any of these comments taken out of context and run away with. Its all generally speaking. So please dont beat me to death with totally obvious exceptions to the rules..lol
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 26, 2009,
#5
For Crunch tones get an amp which has crunch.

Strat-style body + Les Paul like tone:
Strat with humbuckers.
Fender American Special HSS Stratocaster
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#6
Quote by Mrod44
What guitar would give me deep dark crunch tones. Les Paul like tone, buy strat like body. Would any mohagany body, humbucking guitar give me this.


Well I won't argue the amp point but if you want a strat style'd LP tone...

PRS definately come to mind. A lot of their stuff is mahogany with Dual humbuckers and vintage style bridges?

What about This ?
The gear:

* Epiphone Les Paul Custom
* Schecter Jeff Loomis Signature 7 String
* Fender Squier P Bass
* Blackstar Stage HT-60
* Original Crybaby
* EHX Small Clone
* Boss DD-3
Last edited by hendrixftw at Aug 27, 2009,
#7


Marshalls are known for their crunch but that is actually false..technically. The reason I wanted to point this out is because some players are dissapointed with their Marshalls when they finally get one. They dont know that the "Marshall" tone they have grown accustomed to is actually compressed.

I am not belittling Marshalls in any way. They are great amps..but the tone most metal players know as Marshall is tweaked. Compression can make a huge difference in tone when you are using the Rhythm tekniks of metal. So there is a huge misconception about what the Marshall tone actually is.

If you want to combine the Les Paul and the Strat...The SG is probably right up your alley. Ibanez makes hss models that also fit the bill. V models will also give you the powerful tone, plus upper fret acces.
It depends on what you mean by "Marshall tone," most of the sounds I hear on records are generally easily achievable with the right Marshall and right amp. But again, I'm talking about the tones of folks like Page, Kossoff, Clapton, Allman, etc, not modern metal players. Imo, the Marshall tone itself has a very characteristic compression, that comes from cranking the amps, which gives it that classic, greasy sound and also gives the amp that real dynamic kind of feel that makes it so player dependent.

I also disagree on the second part, nothing really sounds like a les paul but a les paul, even SGs, PRSs, Ibanezes, just lack that deep, round low end that makes the les paul so characteristic in sound.
#8
Quote by Washburnd Fretz

If you want to combine the Les Paul and the Strat...The SG is probably right up your alley. Ibanez makes hss models that also fit the bill. V models will also give you the powerful tone, plus upper fret acces.

I dont mean to come off as a jerk. I just don't want any of these comments taken out of context and run away with. Its all generally speaking. So please dont beat me to death with totally obvious exceptions to the rules..lol


just completely ignored that part didnt you?

The point was that the SG is Almost as powerful as a les paul on the low end and almost as bright as the Strat on the high end.

I mean If you want the a nice portion of the core sound of each...an SG/G-400 could be
a good choice.

Also the "Marshall" tone that is commercially known today is mainly associated with metal. Zakk Wylde ..Kerry King and company have had a hand in driving that Market share.

These amps are typically used with EMG's. They already have a compressed sound and internal preamps. Furthermore they also have compression and sometimes another preamp in the rigs. So the Commercial Marshall tone we tend to think of today when we associate Marshall with modern music is very different from the Marshall you would find in the store. We have to be careful to warn players with less experience. They may get the Marshall and then need at least $500 more dollars to nail that studio tone.

I'm going to be honest and say that the Marshall tone that is known commercially in metal is a 10 of 10. The stock marshall will be a 7 in comparison. Even though Marshalls are very far ahead of the typical valve amps in tone..they are pushed and tweaked alot to get even more out of them in the booth.

The tone of a Marshall amp can change dramatically with EQ's and Active pickups and compression. The core of the tone will remain intact..but the accessories mentioned above really highlight the best qualities of the amp.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 27, 2009,
#9
Sorry, I did not ignore it, and I still disagree.
Quote by Washburnd Fretz

the "Marshall" tone that is commercially known today is mainly associated with metal. Zakk Wylde ..Kerry King and company have had a hand in driving that Market share.
I would argue that more people look to Marshalls to get the classic tones of Page and Clapton.

These amps are typically used with EMG's. They already have a compressed sound and internal preamps. Furthermore they also have compression and sometimes another preamp in the rigs. So the Commercial Marshall tone we tend to think of today when we associate Marshall with modern music is very different from the Marshall you would find in the store. We have to be careful to warn players with less experience. They may get the Marshall and then need at least $500 more dollars to nail that studio tone.
This is the case with any amp. If you are after the tone of an artist with a telecaster and a mesa along with a giant rack setup, you're not going to get the same sound without all the extras either. It's nothing that is exclusive to Marshall.

I'm going to be honest and say that the Marshall tone that is known commercially in metal is a 10 of 10. The stock marshall will be a 7 in comparison. Even though Marshalls are very far ahead of the typical valve amps in tone..they are pushed and tweaked alot to get even more out of them in the booth.
This is extremely subjective. The Marshall tone is appealing to a lot of people for being raw and organic sounding. Not everyone wants their setup to sound like Zakk Wylde's. I don't imagine many people would, because his tone sucks and shows none of the qualities that are so revered in the "Marshall" tone. Those who use him as a standard really don't know what they want from Marshalls outside of the brand name.

The tone of a Marshall amp can change dramatically with EQ's and Active pickups and compression. The core of the tone will remain intact..but the accessories mentioned above really highlight the best qualities of the amp.
No, you have this backwards, a good amp is going to highlight the best qualities of your guitars and effects.
#11
Quote by al112987
Sorry, I did not ignore it, and I still disagree.


You disagree just to disagree. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I explained why some new Marshall owners are not satisfied with their amps.
This Thread is about CRUNCH. Where does Jimi Page and Eric Clapton fit in there?
They have no relevance in this thread.

Zakk Wylde and Kerry King are the Guide on bearers of Marshall CRUNCH


You are talking about 50 million other things that have nothing to do with
the price of tea in China.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 28, 2009,
#12
Where does Jimi Page and Eric Clapton fit in there?
They have no relevance in this thread.
Of course they fit in here, they ARE the Marshall crunch sound. Unless you mean to insinuate that crunch refers exclusively to high gain metal and want to put labels on things like overdrive vs. crunch vs. distortion, etc. which is a whole different issue.

BUT... since "I have no idea what I'm talking about" please explain to me how Jimmy Page and Clapton are not relevant to the Marshall crunch tone, because if I remember correctly, they were two of the guys who more or less pioneered the cranked Marshall sound.

What the hell do you consider these sounds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQKOR9t9ynM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QgDdCZYwJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ss959cQASY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svR3iXKTJvc

All with nothing but guitar -> Marshall -> 4x12

THAT is the Marshall crunch, completely uninhibited by tone killing factors.
If Page's sound is not crunch, what is it? Humor me here, no Marshall made pre-2205/2210 would ever get CLOSE to the amount of gain and EQ that Zakk Wylde gets on his amp without an overdrive and high output pickups. Does this mean that the Marshall crunch did not exist before Zakk came along? That in the years between 1965-whenever Zakk and Kerry King came on the scene, there was no signature Marshall sound? The plexi models, the early '70s JMPs, the late '70s MV JMPs and early 2203/2204 JCM800s, that are so highly revered amongst players, those do not get the classic Marshall crunch because they don't sound like Zakk Wylde without having an OD in front?

And even WITH compression, and overdrives, something like a plexi is never going to sound like Zakk Wylde, or other modern metal players anyway, so... let me guess, those cannot get the Marshall crunch sound right? All the many players who use these classic amps that cannot get the buzzy, high gain sounds of Zakk and Kerry King, they're not getting the signature Marshall crunch?

No you fool, before telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about, maybe YOU should go listen to more music, YOU should go play more amps, YOU should go talk to more guitarists who have played Marshalls and maybe then YOU'LL find out what Marshalls are all about.

Zakk Wylde and Kerry King are the Guide on bearers of Marshall CRUNCH


You are talking about 50 million other things that have nothing to do with
the price of tea in China.
No they are not. Unless you are 15 years old and listen to nothing but metal, go ask anyone what their idea of Marshall crunch tone is and they will bring up guys like Slash, Page, Clapton, Kossoff, Angus Young, EVH, etc. before any mention of Zakk or Kerry King. Why? Because they're NOT the standards for that sound. If you think they are, you do not know what the prototypical Marshall crunch even sounds like.

Zakk Wylde's sound or Kerry King's sound are NOT the sounds typically associated with Marshalls. I have no idea where in the world you get this, Marshalls have a long pedigree and were famous for their sound way before guys like Zakk and Kerry King hit the scene. If one were to try to get their sounds, then yes, they need to use EMGs, mod the amps or use an overdrive to push the front end. But they are also not the prototypical Marshall sound, so I don't even know why they're being used as such standards.
Last edited by al112987 at Aug 28, 2009,
#14
The names you mentioned like Page, Clapton, also EVH (in the 80's), Slash, Hendrix, Young (who pretty much plugs straight in). That's Marshall crunch/od to me.
2003 Music Man Axis Pacific Blue Burst
#15
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
You disagree just to disagree. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I explained why some new Marshall owners are not satisfied with their amps.
This Thread is about CRUNCH. Where does Jimi Page and Eric Clapton fit in there?
They have no relevance in this thread.

Zakk Wylde and Kerry King are the Guide on bearers of Marshall CRUNCH




#16
I am the poster of this tread. I am looking for deep dark cruch sound of a Les Paul in a strat body. I have the Fender American Special Strat, and Shecter C-1, close as I'm gonna get I guess. When I think Marshall crunch, I think Jimmy Page, Joe Perry, Slash, Etc. While I like Zakk Wylde I do not consider this the Marshall sound. The Pages, Claptons, Perrys etc put Marshall on the map and made them. They hold the tone that marshall is known by. I mean no disrespect to any modern player useing Marshalls, but there sound is not the classic Marshall sound that inspired thousands to learn to play guitar. Peace
#17
Take a look at Ibanez SAS32EX. Mahogany body in a classy strat shape, 2 humbuckers that split, modern two point non locking trem, and a neck that doesn't have a thickness of a match.
Last edited by KingStill at Aug 28, 2009,
#18
Quote by Mrod44
. I mean no disrespect to any modern player useing Marshalls, but there sound is not the classic Marshall sound that inspired thousands to learn to play guitar. Peace


I don't favor the sound of modern metal players using Marshalls either. The best parts of the tone are killed with effects. I was just trying to warn you that it wouldn't be the tone that is associated with them today commercially.

We all know the Marshall's dont need anything in front of them. Now that we know you dont need a ballz to the wallz rig..It is settled.

I would go for the Hss Strat or the Sg. Mahogany body would give you more weight to your tone as well.

I really recommend going into a shop and playing every Les Paul you can afford.
Not every model, but every single one. I didnt like them at first, but one day I played one that felt like it was made just for me.

A les Paul with some high output passives will go beautifully with the Marshall. The tone actually cleans up very nicely as u roll down volume. I would look into some V-Shaped guitars as well. That might be great for you.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 28, 2009,
#19
**** everyones comments about Marshall being metal and stupid comments about crunch and your comment about Marshall and modern players.

Get a Humbucker-strat or anything what looks like a strat and has humbuckers, or any other shaped guitar with humbuckers, though Crunch doesn't come from the guitar or humbuckers, it comes from the amp. The deep dark crunch will work with some EQing. Some good amps for the tone you might want are:
Marshall Vintage Modern
Marshall JCM 800
Marshall JCM 2000 DSL
And any Marshall JTM45, Plexi and Bluesbreaker and whatever vintage reissues.
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#20
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
No new player with little experience buys an MG to sound like Jimmy Page.
Yes, let's all bunch people who buy Marshalls to be 14 year old kids who buys an MG and wants to be Zakk Wylde. I bought my first Marshall when I was 13, after I started to really get into Led Zeppelin.

Marshall is selling those things like crazy to kids who think they will sound like the Most Famous Metal Players of today. Zakk Wylde and Kerry King have even endorsed them.
Again, bunching everyone who wants a Marshall to be a 14 year old kid who wants to play metal. There are plenty of new players who want to get into bands like Zeppelin, want to know what drove me to build my JTM45? Eric Clapton's tone on the Beano album, Peter Green's tone on "A Hard Road," and Jimi Hendrix's tone from the Monterrey Pop Festival.

Crunch comes from palm muting. Led Zeppelin's sound is not built apon guitars used as percussive instruments....such as Metal and its sub genres.

I said a million times already. The high gain Marshall tone that is known of today is typically a super overdriven amp with a ton accessories.
I assure you that more people associate Marshall with classic metal and classic hard rock than modern high gain metal. When people think of the Marshall tone, I assure you that more people think AC/DC or Slash than Zakk and Kerry King.

Hendrix and Jimmy page recorded great music...but they are not directly associated with crunch. They palm muted of course... but using uber distortion and OD to give palm mutes the presence of todays modern music was not even thought of back then. No one ever places Crunch in the top tier of their trademark sounds. Page and Hendrix have been praised on many aspects of thier playing ..but never their crunch.
Really now? Go somewhere other than UG where the demographic is less kids who play metal, go read the vintage amp forum, or the Metroamp forums, or the les paul forum, Jimmy Page's Marshall tone is widely considered to be a holy grail. As is Hendrix's live Marshall stack tone.

Jimmy Page has had more influence selling Les Pauls than Marshalls. Jimi Hendrix has also had more influence selling Strats than Marshalls as well.
Doesn't mean that people don't associate them with the Marshall sound because they are pretty much the prime example of les paul -> Marshall and strat -> Marshall.

I dont understand why this is such an issue. Most Marshall players that use palm muting as an integral part of their sound use active pickups, compression, really hot OD, and often more preamping along with decimal boosters to push the actives even harder

That will of course increase the presence of the crunch and other dynamics of modern Tekniks. Why is it so UNREASONABLE to state that the Marshall crunch of todays Modern music is NOT the same tone when the amp sits alone. The amp will indeed shine on its own, but what some people think the marshall tone is...is actually a Marshall driven balls to the walls.

This is a misconception with many young players. If that makes no sense to you.
You are the one that sounds like a fool.
No, we seem to disagree on what is considered "crunch," I, along with most other people (I expect) consider crunch that edgy, gritty sound you get when you overdrive the amp. I cannot agree with you that crunch is simply associated with palm muting and I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise. If you honestly believe that Marshall crunch did not exist before metal players started coming around, then so be it, I think that notion is laughable, but apparently something has convinced you of that.

I understand what you are saying in that to get modern Marshall sounds, players generally need more than just the Marshall. But that boils down to the whole... you need ____'s gear to get ____'s sound. To me, that is common sense and is the case with any set up, regardless of whether players use Marshalls, Mesas, Fenders, etc.
#21
Discussion goes on...
Please read my post above.

What Zakk Wylde is using is not Marshall crunch, it's crushing overdrive. That what people consider as Marshall crunch is the sound of a cranked vintage Marshall, not the sound of a MG with a Metal Zone pedal in front of it (I know that's not Zakk's setup but I hope you understand what I'm talking about). Also many people don't consider Marshalls as THE metal-amp brand.
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#22
It bothers me that younger players today dont appreciate great music. Many don't know about the great bands that paved the way. I love classic rock.

IMO ..not HUMBLE at all...commercial modern music has Bastardized the reputation of the Marshall. I was just saying that Marshall today...will allow people to think that the sound they hear is Marshall. That couldnt be farther from the truth.

The players destroy the tone with all of that unnecessary gear. Just like active EMG's in a Gibson Les Paul.

I never meant that crunch started with Modern metal. I was simply talking about the marketing and commercial packaging of today's Marshall...vs..The actual Amplifier. Thats why I referred to "Crunch" in the modern definition of today. Thats where the quotations came in. "Marshall" That was my entire point.

Quote by al112987
Yes, let's all bunch people who buy Marshalls to be 14 year old kids who buys an MG and wants to be Zakk Wylde.

But you are still wrong. I want to continue to argue the same point.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 28, 2009,
#23
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
It bothers me that younger players today dont appreciate great music. Many don't know about the great bands that paved the way. I love classic rock.


I'm 15. Yea, I've never heard of Led Zeppelin, don't know who Pete Townshend is, think Bob Dylan sucks and that Les Paul is a guitar from Gibsion or something.

Do you know who started classical music? The mother of all modern music. Do you know what paved the way for rock n' roll to exist? I seriously don't know, but since your ranting here about how people have paved the way, would you like to inform me?

^ That's actually a serious question.


Quote by Washburnd Fretz
IMO ..not HUMBLE at all...commercial modern music has Bastardized the reputation of the Marshall. I was just saying that Marshall today...will allow people to think that the sound they hear is Marshall. That couldnt be farther from the truth.


When someone hears someone playing through a Marshall stack, won't they think "So this is how XXX sounds like" and not "So this is what the JCM 2000 sounds like with a vintage 1978 American Stratocaster"? If the person's opinion on something is based solely on something they haven't even tried, then it's not very important in the first place is it?

Quote by Washburnd Fretz
The players destroy the tone with all of that unnecessary gear. Just like active EMG's in a Gibson Les Paul.


So what if Les Paul's originated with EMGs? Would you now say that passives destory the tone of Les Pauls?

Quote by Washburnd Fretz
I never meant that crunch started with Modern metal. I was simply talking about the marketing and commercial packaging of today's Marshall...vs..The actual Amplifier. Thats where the quotations came in. "Marshall"


We're here discussing about Marshall's "Crunch Tone" and you go on about marketing? What?

They're all really just questions directed in a harsh manner, attack if you want, respond to questions if you want. Heck, even laugh if you want.
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Last edited by wair138 at Aug 28, 2009,
#25
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
*yawn*



NOMNOMNOM food.
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#26
Lol, anyone is reading my comments?

Looks like I'm one of the people discussing and not getting quoted for being dumbass.
Fender American Special HSS Stratocaster
Ibanez 1987 Roadstar II Deluxe
Yamaha THR10X
Marshall JCM900 SL-X
Ibanez WD-7 Weeping Demon Wah
TC Electronic Polytune
Seymour Duncan Tweakfuzz
#27
Quote by JesusCrisp
Lol, anyone is reading my comments?

Looks like I'm one of the people discussing and not getting quoted for being dumbass.


youre a dumbass.

Just kidding. lol. You had a good post.

Apologies to TS for sidetracking your thread.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Aug 28, 2009,