#1
so iv finally settled on getting a black beauty, and what i plan on doing is putting in one classic all around pickup, one heavy crisp metal pickup, and an all around good neck pickup. then im going to install a 6pos switch for many different combos and mixing.

ones iv been looking at:

neck: pearly gates, jazz
bridge/middle: custom custom, custom, jb, custom 5, (maybe a prs dragon or tremonti?)

my main question is, how will putting a bridge pickup in the middle position effect its natural eq and output (also keeping in mind it will be bass'd up a bit due to being in a solid mahogany body)? will any of these choices get too muddy in the middle? can anyone vouch, suggest, or knock out some of the options i have based on experience? I play through a 6505 combo and the best example of tone im looking for would be alter bridge's blackbird album. (and yes yes, I KNOW they play through multi-thousand dollar PRSs and mesas, blah blah, im looking for the CLOSEST i can get, i dont want exact, i want my own thing.)
________

for our lazy readers: looking for 2 bridge pickups to contrast each other (1 in the bridge, 1 in the middle) so they can be used for different things, and blended together for balance, and im afraid of mud. open to suggestions.

thanks!
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#2
bump?
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#4
What does bump mean?

Anyhow why are all the pups u listed seymour dumbcan lol
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#5
Kind of an odd question, not too many middle humbucker questions going around...

I would say do a dual JB in the bridge and middle and for the neck throw in a Jazz.
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GODDAMMIT I need a G Decimator...
#6
well i dont want to dual anything cause im trying to go for a wide range of tones. i want one pickup for classic rock, one for hard metal, and the neck for cleans. then i can blend them together for some balanced tones.

they are all duncans cause the only other ones i would get is a prs dragon, or tremonti pickups. im not really a fan of too many dimarzios or emgs.

311ZOSOVHJH - what kind of music do u play and what kind of guitar is in it? the reason i really want that pup is cause the rythym guitarist/singer of alter bridge uses it and i actually like his tone better than marks.

i think im settled on doing custom custom, custom, and pearly gates. but idk if the custom custom, or custom should go in the middle (confusing i know, thanks seymour!). im thinking the custom custom in the middle cause it has low bass, but will the mids mud up or anything?

please keep the suggestions going, as i wont be able to do this for a while anyway.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
Last edited by xxunder-takerxx at Aug 28, 2009,
#7
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
well i dont want to dual anything cause im trying to go for a wide range of tones. i want one pickup for classic rock, one for hard metal, and the neck for cleans. then i can blend them together for some balanced tones.

they are all duncans cause the only other ones i would get is a prs dragon, or tremonti pickups. im not really a fan of too many dimarzios or emgs.

311ZOSOVHJH - what kind of music do u play and what kind of guitar is in it? the reason i really want that pup is cause the rythym guitarist/singer of alter bridge uses it and i actually like his tone better than marks.

i think im settled on doing custom custom, custom, and pearly gates. but idk if the custom custom, or custom should go in the middle (confusing i know, thanks seymour!). im thinking the custom custom in the middle cause it has low bass, but will the mids mud up or anything?

please keep the suggestions going, as i wont be able to do this for a while anyway.

How about Custom Custom/'59/Jazz?

I would keep the CC in the bridge. I can imagine the '59 being able to handle the middle position more since it's a pretty all around pickup.
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Boss MT-2 (Keeley modded)

GODDAMMIT I need a G Decimator...
#8
Quote by ZeroCS
How about Custom Custom/'59/Jazz?

I would keep the CC in the bridge. I can imagine the '59 being able to handle the middle position more since it's a pretty all around pickup.


with those 2 i wouldnt really have anything ideal for lead metal tones. the 59 has pretty scooped mids on the duncan tone chart, and i usually dont play stuff with scooped mids, which is why the custom 5 isnt an option (seriously duncan, get some new names).
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#10
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Sorry. It's a TB11 actually.

There is a TB15 too which I really want to try. (Alt 8) Otherwise, get some Active pups.


I can get some brootlznow


well the tb11 and sh11 are essentially the same thing. how is it? what kind of music u play with and what kind of guitar is it in?

im not huge on actives, i want this LP to be my main guitar, and im gonna swap out the rails in my strat for actives, but thats later down the road. i want this beast of an LP setup first.

and i have also been curious about the alt8... eq seems well balanced and CRAZY output.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#11
I've never understood the whole...

"I want the neck for cleans, middle for classic rock, bridge for hard rock" thing and here is why...

Even if you put the exact same pickup in all three positions, you're going to get a wide variety of sounds. And there is no guarantee that putting something more "classic rock" oriented in the middle or cleaner in the neck is going to lead to any more flexibility than having the exact same pickup in all three positions.

In the end, just find the three most versatile pickups possible. I personally think it's stupid to buy a neck pickup "for cleans," because I've always judged the caliber of neck pickup on how well it stays together through an overdriven amp, whether it gets muddy or boomy in the low end or shrill in the top end, how it sounds with the tone rolled down half, how it sounds with the tone rolled down whole, to get the widest range of sounds possible out of the guitar, you just need to actually fully utilize each position. The neck position is very useful for lead playing, and the likewise, the bridge pickup can be very useful clean, and etc. etc.

Just look for three versatile pickups.
#12
Quote by al112987
I've never understood the whole...

"I want the neck for cleans, middle for classic rock, bridge for hard rock" thing and here is why...

Even if you put the exact same pickup in all three positions, you're going to get a wide variety of sounds. And there is no guarantee that putting something more "classic rock" oriented in the middle or cleaner in the neck is going to lead to any more flexibility than having the exact same pickup in all three positions.

In the end, just find the three most versatile pickups possible. I personally think it's stupid to buy a neck pickup "for cleans," because I've always judged the caliber of neck pickup on how well it stays together through an overdriven amp, whether it gets muddy or boomy in the low end or shrill in the top end, how it sounds with the tone rolled down half, how it sounds with the tone rolled down whole, to get the widest range of sounds possible out of the guitar, you just need to actually fully utilize each position. The neck position is very useful for lead playing, and the likewise, the bridge pickup can be very useful clean, and etc. etc.

Just look for three versatile pickups.


well thats ur opinion isnt it. why would i get 3 of the same pickup when i could have 3 pickups that not only naturally sound differently, will also be voiced by its position? THATS variety. why limit myself in any way like that? I dont want 3 pickups that CAN do certain things, i want 1 pickup MADE for this, 1 MADE for that. There IS a difference.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#13
Yes, but it doesn't work like that and it will not work like that. People make pickups way too complicated and make their pickup arrangements way too complicated.

Instead of picking three, one that is each "geared" at one particularly style, it would be much more useful to pick three pickups that are versatile enough to do each by themselves. Picking a neck pickup for "cleans" and bridge pickup for "crunch" is stupid. Are you just going to get a neck pickup that doesn't sound good overdriven and a bridge pickup that doesn't sound clean? THAT is called limiting your options.

Getting a modern voiced pickup for the bridge and a vintage voiced pickup for the middle with the intention of... "oh well, I'll just play classic rock with the middle position and metal with the bridge position" does not work in practicality unless you're perfectly satisfied at getting classic rock tones from only your middle pickup (unlikely because most of the les paul tones you ever hear in classic rock all use the bridge, neck and bridge+neck equally)
#14
i would work more with in phase out of phase switching.

and know that, like said, these pups are getting a lot of their character from being in their spot.

a JB in the bridge sounds hella different from a JB in the neck. and so on.

so.
could you use 3 different styled pups and get tons of variety?
sort of. but you probably not the tones you think.

plus blending them and switch over volume swells, might be a bit of a pain.


my most versatile guitar is my 2 pup schecter tele.
it's got a full sized pup and a p90, each on it's own push pull.

i can go from single to neck humbucker simply and convincingly.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#15
^TS - Al was just trying to make a point.


I'm just saying I wouldn't put a humbucker in the mid slot and have a HHS?

Not saying it won't sound good or its not for you. Have at it. It's just imo.

My guitar is in my sig and my music is in my profile. Lots of stuff.


Pott (Ug'r) is the only one I know with a Duncan Alt8 and he says despite its specs it is a very versatile pup.

TB and SH are the same thing. TB just designates TremBucker - which would be used in a strat type guitar where the string spacing is different then say a Gibson. F-Spaced is another term.

does that help?


Quote by rdobson2
What does bump mean?

Anyhow why are all the pups u listed seymour dumbcan lol


You are kidding right?


Edit 2: drunk and slow posting ftl
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Aug 28, 2009,
#16
i didnt really think it made THAT much of a difference depending on what position its in, which was the main point of this thread. i still think its sort of a waste using all the same pickups cause theres so much variety out there in output, magnet type, etc, and im trying to get the most style out of one guitar.

my main point: can anyone give any specifics on what changes with pickup position? iv never had the same pup in 2 positions, and obviously the closer to the neck, itll add more bass, but how much? does it add more mid and suck any treble out as well?

what ur trying to tell me, is if i put a bass heavy pup in the bridge, and treble heavy pup in the middle, because of their position they will sound very similar? thats what im trying to avoid.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
Last edited by xxunder-takerxx at Aug 28, 2009,
#17
too many variables me thinks


obviously the closer to the neck the more pronounced the string 'bounce' is.

I realize I'm not helping much


(actually my HB is disconnected right now, so all of my recent clips are with the neck SC pup)
#18
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
i didnt really think it made THAT much of a difference depending on what position its in, which was the main point of this thread. i still think its sort of a waste using all the same pickups cause theres so much variety out there in output, magnet type, etc, and im trying to get the most style out of one guitar.

my main point: can anyone give any specifics on what changes with pickup position? iv never had the same pup in 2 positions, and obviously the closer to the neck, itll add more bass, but how much? does it add more mid and suck any treble out as well?

what ur trying to tell me, is if i put a bass heavy pup in the bridge, and treble heavy pup in the middle, because of their position they will sound very similar? thats what im trying to avoid.



well, i can't say if they will sound similar. but i can say that you'll definitely change the pup's tonal charactistics.

another variable i didnt even touch on because it's less by comparison, is the height of the pup in relation to the strings and even further, the height of the individual poles.

they make these things adjustable because they effect the pups tone.

so, even if you had two JBs. both installed in the bridge of the same type of mahogany guitar AND used the same amp, gauge strings, pot values and pick, you'd still sound different,
if you changed the pole and pup heights.


edit: are you swapping the rails out of your MIM? or are you talking about a different guitar?
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 29, 2009,
#19
no im talking about a new guitar.

i never messed around with adjusting the pole positions, but i know about the height thing.

the reason im asking all of this is to get an idea of how the position changes the tone, so i can get a pickup more balanced towards a certain end of the eq to balance that out vs position. and i understand that there are a lot of factors and its a fairly complex question, which is why i came to u guys .
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#20
i'm kind of suggesting that, any definite answer you get here, will probably be at least a little off, if not hard to recreate at home.

pups are the hardest purchase, imo.

they are a pain to install, hard to find and try out, and sometimes non refundable.

amps and pedals make huge differences in comparison, and are so much easier to try out and exchange.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#21
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
no im talking about a new guitar.

i never messed around with adjusting the pole positions, but i know about the height thing.

the reason im asking all of this is to get an idea of how the position changes the tone, so i can get a pickup more balanced towards a certain end of the eq to balance that out vs position. and i understand that there are a lot of factors and its a fairly complex question, which is why i came to u guys .
The neck is naturally going to be more bassy and the response is going to be different because of the nature of the string vibration at that position, at the position where the neck pickup is the sound it picks up is going to always be bassier, louder and more mellow, and at the bridge, the sound it picks up is going to be brighter, so even if you stick the exact same pickup in both the neck and bridge, when you put it on the neck pickup, it's still going to have that neck pickup sound and vice versa with the bridge.

Taking only EQ into account, if you have two very different pickups, a very thin and bright one in the neck and a very bassy and mellow one in the bridge, you are correct that the difference between them would be less apparent, they would never sound the same, but there would be less difference as you get brighter and thinner in the neck and bassier in the bridge. But again, this only takes into account EQ, the harmonics, dynamic response, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzV2RK1CWY

There is a good example of what a really bright neck pickup can sound like. Pay particular attention to the red sunburst guitar (not the brown sunburst one) In the end you can still tell it's a neck pickup, but on the unwound strings particularly, it has some bridge like qualities.

As JJ said, it is very hard to predict how these things will sound without actually trying it because they interact with your guitar and you really have no way to know how they'll sound in your guitar without actually ponying up and buying them.
#22
^great response, thank u. so i guess im just gonna have to take all of this into account, do some more research and just flip a coin or something. thanks a lot guys.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC