#1
I have a few speaker questions. 1. Is it possible to put one 12" in a 212 amp and run it for temporary use until I buy another speaker. (this question is irrelevant to me now, but still glad I got answers for it.) 2. Is there anything to worry about (for the amps health) when putting a speaker into an amp, or will any speaker really do. 3. Is there any good place/way to buy speakers.

My amp works fine. I need to get a new speaker because my old one blew.
Last edited by SKAtastic7770 at Aug 28, 2009,
#2
Go to a music store and see if they have a speaker-less amp, if not then put an ad up and there's bound to be someone who attempted to play a bass through a guitar amp to see it.
#3
1.) Good question actually. I'm going to guess that everything would be fine as long as you matched ohms and watts. Which amp is this? You Peavey Special? A solid state amp will be more tolerant to mis-matches but give us the specs on that amp both ohm options and watts.

2.) Yes, it does matter. First make sure it is a speaker designed for a guitar. Different frequencies are handled by different types of speakers. I could get into all the variables as far types of magnets and cones, breakup points, voicing, etc - but do keep in mind the watts and ohms as I mentioned above. Celestion, Eminence, WGS, Weber, Jensen, etc all make great speakers for guitar amps. If you want something good for cheaper I suggest some of the Emi's and warehouseguitarspeakers.com (they make clones at almost half the cost).

3. Already answered kinda but guitar center, musiciansfriend, tedweber.com, wgs, sam ash, and lots of other places sell speakers.

Also, some outfits, like Avatar can make you a custom cab, let you pick the speakers and can also sell you an empty cab. You can also find empty cabs on craigslist.

Good luck
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Aug 27, 2009,
#4
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
1.) Good question actually. I'm going to guess that everything would be fine as long as you matched ohms and watts. Which amp is this? You Peavey Special? A solid state amp will be more tolerant to mis-matches but give us the specs on that amp both ohm options and watts.

2.) Yes, it does matter. First make sure it is a speaker designed for a guitar. Different frequencies are handled by different types of speakers. I could get into all the variables as far types of magnets and cones, breakup points, voicing, etc - but do keep in mind the watts and ohms as I mentioned above. Celestion, Eminence, WGS, Weber, Jensen, etc all make great speakers for guitar amps. If you want something good for cheaper I suggest some of the Emi's and warehouseguitarspeakers.com (they make clones at almost half the cost).

3. Already answered kinda but guitar center, musiciansfriend, tedweber.com, wgs, sam ash, and lots of other places sell speakers.

Also, some outfits, like Avatar can make you a custom cab, let you pick the speakers and can also sell you an empty cab. You can also find empty cabs on craigslist.

Good luck

Turns out its the other way around, but Im still in the market for a new speaker. These speakers off of tedweber seem rather cheap, are they quality products? Is there a catch? Also my special 112 is marked at 160 watts and 4 ohms. I dont think Ive ever seen a speaker at 160w and I usually only see them at 8 or 6 ohms. I know matching the ohms is pretty important, is the wattage equally important?
#5
When matching ohms with a 2x12 setup, I believe you also have to note whether its wired in series or parallel. I think when its series the ohm values stack. So for a 16 ohm amp you would use two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, or two 16 ohm wired in parallel.

Can anyone back me on this? its been awhile since I've studied circuits.
"Good and evil lay side by side as electric love penetrates the sky"
#6
Quote by SKAtastic7770
Turns out its the other way around, but Im still in the market for a new speaker. These speakers off of tedweber seem rather cheap, are they quality products? Is there a catch? Also my special 112 is marked at 160 watts and 4 ohms. I dont think Ive ever seen a speaker at 160w and I usually only see them at 8 or 6 ohms. I know matching the ohms is pretty important, is the wattage equally important?

weber speakers are great, bless the late ted weber who just died recently. he was highly knowledgable, very true to solid engineering, and offers a product i highly recommend. i got speakers i am very happy with. sound awesome, cost almost half as much as their celestion equivalent and sound better imo.

btw, weber also offers empty boxes and packages for amp 'skeletons', you can also get custom cabs from mather or avatar or many others. you can also just harvest some older amps and replace a speaker, etc.

anyway, with the speakers, this is kinda the way it works

-you'll need an amplifier
-you'll need to know it output wattage
-you'll need to know it's output impedance(s)(some amps have 2, usually 8 ohms and 16 ohms)

-you'll then need to choose a cabinet that will:
-match the impedance of the output of the amp
-be rated for a higher or equal wattage of the amplifier's output

that is how you normally do it, but if you already have a speaker and you are trying to find how to make it work for an amp... well then you will need an amp that outputs at 4 ohms, and is rated at less than 160 watts.

now what happens when you get another speaker? normally you get 2 speakers rated at the same impedance, i don't know of anybody mixing impedance on their speaker combinations. so basically what i am saying is you'll want another speaker rated at 4 ohms impedance when you buy another speaker to compliment your's. the output is no overly important, as long as it covers you amp, so you don't need to worry about hurting anything by running a speaker rated at 30 watts another speaker rated at 160 watts in a 2x12 cab together.

then you'll have to wire the speakers together, that whole series and parallel dude above is talking about. you can find diagrams online, but you're not gonna have much of a choice, your speaker wants to be wired in series with another speaker. that way the speaker circuit will be rated at 8 ohms impedance, which is what you'll find most cabs at. if you wired two 4 ohm speakers in parallel your circuit would be rated at 2 ohms and that is not overly used with guitar amps.

you don't want to mismatch the rated speaker circuit impedance with the rated amp output impedance cuz this will cause problems in the long term that could blow tubes, ruin transformers, or just put too much strain on the amp in general. and in the worst cases, IT SOUNDS BAD!
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#7
So I have to find a speaker rated higher than 160watts and at 4 ohms. That may be challenging.
#8
^ - yeah that won't happen.

Guitar speakers generally come in 4, 8, and 16 ohms.

Certainly not 6.

I need to re-read what your plan is here.


Kev - could he put one 80 or 100 watt speaker in there and survive?
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Aug 27, 2009,
#9
What? No. Figure out what amp you want to get first, then worry about speakers.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#10
Quote by GuitarNinja12
When matching ohms with a 2x12 setup, I believe you also have to note whether its wired in series or parallel. I think when its series the ohm values stack. So for a 16 ohm amp you would use two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, or two 16 ohm wired in parallel.

Can anyone back me on this? its been awhile since I've studied circuits.


That is correct
#12
Quote by GuitarNinja12
When matching ohms with a 2x12 setup, I believe you also have to note whether its wired in series or parallel. I think when its series the ohm values stack. So for a 16 ohm amp you would use two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, or two 16 ohm wired in parallel.

Can anyone back me on this? its been awhile since I've studied circuits.


The bolded part is wrong. Two 16 ohm speakers in parallel is 8 ohms. The only way to have a 16 ohm 2x12 is with 2 8 ohm speakers in series. You could use two 32 ohm speakers in parallel, but good luck finding 32 ohm speakers.
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not
#13
So what would happen if the wattage wasn't matched? because finding a used 160w 4 ohm speaker is going to be a challenge. Also to clarify what I mentioned before, it turns out that my speaker blew and my amp was fine. So does anyone know my speaker blew suddenly while I was playing guitar at a normal volume? I had a Pyle Driver speaker in it before.
#14
eww, a pyle, i think those aren't overly common, i'd keep em on principle. alright, round 2.

first off, as i said in my first post, you don't need to worry about matching wattage between the 2 speakers, i'll explain below. what happens if the wattage isn't matched between the 2 speakers? nothing really, it just lowers the wattage rating of the speaker circuit.

wattage works a little different when wiring 2x12's or 4x12's together. the speakers work together to handle the wattage coming from the 'head' unit. the way you calculate a cabinet/speaker circuits wattage rating is as follows:

(number of speakers)*(lowest wattage rating speaker) = cabinet's power handling

so a 4x12 with 2 alnico blues(rated at 15 watts) and 2 V30(rated 120 watts) would be
4*15 = 60 watts

so a 2x12 with a g12h-30(30 watt) and a g12m-25(25 watt) would be
2*25 = 50 watts

the wattage should be distributed evenly across the speakers, so your worse case scenario is lets say you find a speaker @4 ohms and rated for 100 watts to go with your 4 ohm 160 watt speaker, then your speaker cab could handle:
2*100=200 watts

so your cab would be rated 200 watts, that means you could run a 200 watt guitar head in there without worrying.

so, does anyone know why your speaker blew? might as well ask us why your microwave blew up. probably cuz pyles are old and speakers aren't made to last forever. for example, my music man 212hd had a blown speaker that wasn't blown at all. what happened is that the adhesive holding the magnet on actually lost cohesion. i never even heard of that before, but after 25 years of use i guess the glue gave out, can't really blame it.

now, advice time. if i were you, and you like the amp and the speakers, then i would take the blown speaker and get it reconed. reconing is a process is which they replace most the parts on the speaker with stock parts. this makes old speakers work again and keep most of their original tone. i have reconed a handful of speakers with weber, and they were able to replace all the parts with parts of spec of the original speaker. that makes me happy. weber does a great job.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#15
Im sorry if I still haven't been clear. My amp is 112 160 watt rated at 4 ohms. I need I new speaker because my Pyle blew. So what I want to know now is if I can put say a 150watt speaker into the amp. What are the dangerous of not matching the ohms/watts of the speakers to the amp. Most speakers on the market are 8ohms and it would make getting a new speaker much easier if I could put one of those in my amp, but I dont want to risk ruining my amp or a new speaker.
#16
well most of what you are asking above has already been answered. we have already said that you will want a speaker that can handle more power than the output of the amp. if you can't cover that then you may run the risk of blowing the speaker. it is really more complicated than that, but that is the cut and dry. the more truthful response is speakers are usually rated modestly, meaning a 30 watt speaker will really handle 45 or 50 watts. the reason for this is because a tube amps output is rated before distortion, so that 30 watt rated tube amp is more like a 40 to 45 watt amp when it is cranked past the point that it distorts. so if you had a 30 watt tube amp(with a distorted output of 45 watts), then a 30 watt rated speaker(that can really handle 50 watts) is the minimum you will need to safely operate without the speaker blowing. in other words speakers need a little sand bagging in their rating in order to have a 30 watt rated speaker work with a 30 watt rated amp.

if you want to see what happens to a speaker when it gets more wattage than it can handle, then plug a set of cheap headphones to the speaker out of you amp and then crank the amp. i don't actually recommend doing this as it has the potential to damage a tube amp, but i did this once in my more stupid/ignorant years. there is really not much left of the speaker in the headphones, they kinda fuse and vaporize at the same time. now the effect won't be quite so dramatic with blowing a guitar speaker, but it is pretty much the same thing. it's like driving the tires off a car. but in this particular case you are causing the voice coil of the speaker to extend beyond it's capable range of motion, kinda like pulling a rubber band too far and it snaps

now the more i look at this, the more i realize you may have a solid state amp. thing work a little different for ss amps. for example, you usually don't push a ss amp past it's rated output because ss amps sound horrible when pushed beyond the wattage rating. tube amps sound great when pushed beyond their clean wattage rating. so if a ss amp says it's 160 watts, then chances are you aren't pushing much more than 120 watts out of it. this would mean that 150 watt speaker(which probably handles more like 170 to 180 watts) would be more than enough to safely use in this amp.

like i said in the first post, the first step is the amp. all the other steps are finding what will work with that amp. which, btw, i am kinda getting miffed on. you haven't mentioned what amp you have yet, you have just given us ratings, most of this advice on this page is for tube amps. could you please post what amp you actually have so we can look it up and better advise you? on your profile it says you have a peavey classic 112, but that doesn't fit your 160 watts with a pyle in it. it sounds more like a peavey special 130 or something of the ilk.

one more thing. most of your posts seem to dwell on what the "new speaker you want to get"'s specifications in comparison to the old pyle speaker. i am saying this is a nice way but, **** the pyle speaker, the pyle speaker has nothing to do with what needs to go in that amp other than the fact it was the old speaker. what determines what speaker can be put into the amp is the amp itself, and that is step two and three in my first post.

i still recommend getting the pyle reconed through weber if you want to keep it. like i said in the last post. but if you still want a new speaker for your amp then post me what exactly the amp is; and if it is a solid state amp, then we will talk about impedance matching and impedance bridging and you may find out that it doesn't matter too much what the impedance of the speaker is...
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Aug 28, 2009,
#17
Yeah my amp is a SS. A Peavey Special 112. Sorry at some point I confused special and classic when entering data into my profile. Anyway thanks for answering my question about the wattage, a 150watt speaker should be okay. So now I just kind of want to know if I can get away with an 8 ohm speaker in the amp or if its is necessary to find a 4 ohm speaker. I have no idea what the pyle was rated, I didn't put that speaker into the amp and I can't find a label on it. Thanks for all of your help thus far.
#18
alright. it's ss. this is kinda different beast as i said. most of the advice above is specific to tube amps, and tube amps need impedance matching in order to keep them working trouble free in the long run. this is mainly from the fact that the tubes need to reach a high plate voltage in order for the cathode to have enough free electrons for the anode to start sucking them up. after the amplification stages the output needs to be 'stepped' down with an output transformer, that is what gives the tube amp's output impedance.

now i am gonna get into ss stuff that i am not 100% sure of, but i think this is a blanket truth. SS amps should have a minuscule output impedance, like .1 ohm maybe. they don't use a concept of impedance matching, they use impedance bridging. this means the the amp is only expecting an impedance load that is greater in the speaker than the amp itself. quote from wikipedia:


Modern solid state audio amplifiers do not use matched impedances, contrary to myth. The driver amplifier has a low output impedance, such as < 0.1 ohm, and the loudspeaker usually has an input impedance of 4, 8, or 16 ohms, which is many times larger than the former. This type of connection is impedance bridging, and it provides better damping of the loudspeaker cone to minimize distortion.


so i didn't just make it up. i read it somewhere, and not just wikipedia.

now what does this mean to you? well impedance still has an effect on ss amps, mainly in how much effective wattage output a ss amp has. ever notice how PA heads will have variable output wattages dependent upon the speaker impedance it uses as output? like this crown here:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=481584V

so the impedance of the speaker you put into this ss amp should effect output wattage of the amp itself. now, what you really need to do is find someone who is more knowledgeable than me and find out if that is true. i would recommend emailing webervst, i am sure they would know. there is also a moderator named roc8995(?), i would pm him with the question. one of those 2 people should be able to tell you straight up if what i said is right.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#20
Quote by Kevin Saale
^You're right. http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/manuals/80300957.pdf The amp puts out 100 watts RMS into an 8 ohm load. So TS, all you need is a 100 watt 8 ohm speaker.

Really? Thats great news. I care less about getting all 160 watts of power then I do about about hurting the amp/speaker. So as long as there will be no damage to the electronics I'd much ratehr get a 100 watt 8 ohm speaker.
Last edited by SKAtastic7770 at Aug 29, 2009,
#21
kevin saale to the rescue again, if kev says it's true then i feel better about it.

so congrats, enjoy your 100 watt 8 ohm speaker.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae