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#1
I recently changed my strings from super slinkys to beefy slinkys (larger gauge). The bridge was raised/lifting when I tuned the guitar (too much tension), so i tightened the spring claw screws behind the guitar to even out the bridge.

Well, when i look at my strings in comparison to the fretboard, they are fairly high, so I tried to lower the action to get the strings closer to the fretboard. Well i've tightened it as much as it allows me to, and they are still higher than i'd like, does anyone know what the problem is?

I read somewhere you want the height between the fret and string to be about .045-.06, and a dime is .055. And even when i put a dime the gap is still too big, yet ive lowered the action as much as the guitar lets me.

Does this happen with all larger gauge strings?
I don't think it's the truss rod, b/c my guitar neck looks straight enough, it's not curved or anything.
#3
Quote by punker_7970
How many springs do you have on your guitar?


Two , ya i read somewhere u should have like 4, is that why it's doing this?
#4
Quote by hxcmatt
Two , ya i read somewhere u should have like 4, is that why it's doing this?


More than likely that's your issue. I believe guitars with floating bridges usually come with three springs (mine did). If you increase your string gauge then usually you will need another spring or two to compensate for the extra tension the thicker strings will generate. So my suggestion is get at least two more and install them. From there, adjust the spring claws, action, etc. appropriately.
#5
Quote by punker_7970
More than likely that's your issue. I believe guitars with floating bridges usually come with three springs (mine did). If you increase your string gauge then usually you will need another spring or two to compensate for the extra tension the thicker strings will generate. So my suggestion is get at least two more and install them. From there, adjust the spring claws, action, etc. appropriately.


Well, the bridge is even, so aren't the springs doing their job? I just don't understand why the strings aren't lower to where i want them to when i've already tightened the action adjusters completely.
#6
Quote by hxcmatt
Well, the bridge is even, so aren't the springs doing their job? I just don't understand why the strings aren't lower to where i want them to when i've already tightened the action adjusters completely.


That is rather strange. Can you give details on the string gauge, guitar brand and type of tremolo system?
#7
Quote by punker_7970
That is rather strange. Can you give details on the string gauge, guitar brand and type of tremolo system?


Okay this guitar is an IbanezRG120 (yes i know very cheap, can't afford better atm). I guess it's the stock tremolo system, there isn't a bar attached though, don't know if that makes a difference. And the string gauge is 11, 15, 22p, 30, 42, 54. It's very weird actually, the only thing that would make sense is that the neck is very "crooked" but to my minds eye looks very straight, so i have no idea.
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 28, 2009,
#8
Quote by hxcmatt
Okay this guitar is an IbanezRG120 (yes i know very crappy, can't afford better atm). I guess it's the stock tremolo system, there isn't a bar attached though, don't know if that makes a difference. And the string gauge is 11, 15, 22p, 30, 42, 54. It's very weird actually, the only think that would make sense is that the neck is very "crooked" but to my minds eye looks very straight, so i have no idea.


I think you would still need three springs to compensate for the tension despite the fact that the bridge you have is already parallel to the body. I have four springs on my Jackson and it's barely enough to sustain an even bridge with strings gauge .10-.52. I'm fairly confident about it, but just for the sake of you being well off and not needing to do something unnecessary, consult more people and ask the for advice.
Last edited by punker_7970 at Aug 28, 2009,
#9
Quote by punker_7970
I think you would still need three springs to compensate for the tension despite the fact that the bridge you have is already parallel to the body. I have four springs on my Jackson and it's barely enough to sustain an even bridge with strings gauge .10-.52.


Okay i'll try that. Does it matter what brand of springs i get (does it have to be ibanez)?
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 28, 2009,
#10
Quote by hxcmatt
Okay i'll try that.


Good luck. If you can, let me know how it goes. I'd like to be of more assistance if possible.
#11
I bought the new springs, and the bridge is still parallel so i guess that part is fine.
Okay the problem is that when i look at the string height, the strings are fairly high like i stated earlier. But if i lower them, then they are still high except very, very low on the first fret. So it's almost like it's really low towards the beginning and get's really high towards the bridge.

I've tried messing with the truss rod and i don't seem to know how to fix it. Help!
#12
dont mess wt the truss rod, you might break the neck.

instead click the green link in my sig, and look at the first post.

it'll tell you how to measure the neck's relief. measure and post back.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#13
Quote by jj1565
dont mess wt the truss rod, you might break the neck.

instead click the green link in my sig, and look at the first post.

it'll tell you how to measure the neck's relief. measure and post back.


What do you want me to read? I've tried everything that can effect string height already, and it's still too high except at the 1st fret it's too low.
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 28, 2009,
#14
Quote by hxcmatt
What do you want me to read? I've tried everything that can effect string height already, and it's still too high except at the 1st fret it's too low.



measuring the neck's relief.

it's right there.

your neck might be back bowed.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#15
Quote by jj1565
measuring the neck's relief.

it's right there.

your neck might be back bowed.


Ya, i've already tried making the neck straighter/ more relief by turning the truss rod counterclockwise. The only thing that happens is the strings get higher, and yes it's still lower towards the first fret. Also, i've adjusted the action adjusters on the bridge all the way down already and the strings are still too high.
#16
Do you think maybe if i turn the truss rod even more counterclockwise, it'll lower the higher frets and even out the string height overall?
#17
It almost sounds like you went to far with loosening the truss rod already. How much relief is there now (roughly)?

Did you do all this truss rod fiddling today? General rule of thumb: Turn 1/8-1/4 turn at most, retune, let guitar sit for a day or two then check the relief.
My Stuff:
Austin Strat Copy - Lefty
(New and Improved with Bill Lawrence 290/280 Pickups)
MIM Telecaster - Lefty
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
TS-9 with a few mods
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah
Last edited by SwamperGene at Aug 28, 2009,
#18
Quote by SwamperGene
It almost sounds like you went to far with loosening the truss rod already. How much relief is there now (roughly)?


Too much relief. But then if i tighten it, it's still too much relief and way too little relief on the first fret. Which is basically touching the first fret, and making it buzz the open string.
#20
Just to be sure we're all on the same page...how are you checking relief, and where are you measuring it? (And what is that measurement?)
My Stuff:
Austin Strat Copy - Lefty
(New and Improved with Bill Lawrence 290/280 Pickups)
MIM Telecaster - Lefty
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
TS-9 with a few mods
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah
#21
Quote by SwamperGene
Just to be sure we're all on the same page...how are you checking relief, and where are you measuring it? (And what is that measurement?)


I'm measuring with my eyes? I know what a high string looks like... also, an average height for good string height/action is the size of a dime. Well my strings are easily 2 dimes high, except for the 1st fret which looks pretty good.
#22
Quote by hxcmatt
I'm measuring with my eyes? I know what a high string looks like... also, an average height for good string height/action is the size of a dime. Well my strings are easily 2 dimes high, except for the 1st fret which looks pretty good.



You can't measure a few thousandths of neck relief using a measurement of string action. Hold the low E string at the first and last fret, then look for and measure the biggest fret-to-string gap which should fall somewhere in the middle of the neck. Jenny recommends a credit card thickness (about .030") which is a good guide but I like to start around half that. Any more than that is too much. If you have no gap the neck is either flat or back-bowed.
My Stuff:
Austin Strat Copy - Lefty
(New and Improved with Bill Lawrence 290/280 Pickups)
MIM Telecaster - Lefty
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
TS-9 with a few mods
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah
#23
Quote by SwamperGene
You can't measure a few thousandths of neck relief using a measurement of string action. Hold the low E string at the first and last fret, then look for and measure the biggest fret-to-string gap which should fall somewhere in the middle of the neck. Jenny recommends a credit card thickness (about .030") which is a good guide but I like to start around half that. Any more than that is too much. If you have no gap the neck is either flat or back-bowed.


It's a little less than the credit card, but hardly. And who's Jenny, Jenny Craig, I didn't know she played guitar. haha jk... This is so frustrating man...
#24
from the green link...

Neck Relief
adjusting your neck
this is not action adjustment. that's done at the bridge.
a neck adjustment usually helps, when a bridge adj can't get the strings low enough , or if you have fretbuzz that doesn't go away wt bridge adjustment.

please dont turn your truss rod without posting first. but here's a good way to see if you might need a neck adjustment.

with a balanced bridge...
fret the Low E on the first fret. at the same time,
fret the Low E on the last fret, where the neck and body meet.

with both places held, look at the middle frets, 7-9th

if the string lays on the fret wire there, you probably dont have enough neck bend.
if the string is more than a credit cards thickness up from the wire there, you probably have too much.


before i tell you if it's a nut problem or a neck problem, i'll need you to do this.
if you keep going back and forth, i can't help you.


edit: im Jenny. nice to meet you.

if you measured and it's a little less than a card. i want you to check the cuts in the nut.

let me find a link....

edit2:

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/nuthigh.htm


do this measurement. see if the nut needs shimming.


this one's good too..
http://www.frets.com/fretspages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 28, 2009,
#25
Ya that Jenny, the one that gave you the green link to follow a while back

Sounds like the neck is ok, maybe fine tune it later but leave it alone for now and follow that link Jenny (not Craig) just posted. You didn't happen to mess with the slots when you went up in gauge?
My Stuff:
Austin Strat Copy - Lefty
(New and Improved with Bill Lawrence 290/280 Pickups)
MIM Telecaster - Lefty
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
TS-9 with a few mods
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah
#26
The site says "Fret each string individually starting with the High E between the second and third fret..." what does that mean? The second fret-wire?

And it says it should be .005" how do i measure that?
#27
try the second link. it has little pictures and is VERY easy to follow. i just want to see if the string touches the fret when you fret between the 2-3rd.

click that second link.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#28
Quote by SwamperGene
Ya that Jenny, the one that gave you the green link to follow a while back

Sounds like the neck is ok, maybe fine tune it later but leave it alone for now and follow that link Jenny (not Craig) just posted. You didn't happen to mess with the slots when you went up in gauge?


Which slots? Nut slots, nope. I'm thinking maybe the tension in the strings is so high, the nut got deeper from pressure? IDK this sucks, i'm not willing to replace the nut since i dont have the $.
#29
Quote by jj1565
try the second link. it has little pictures and is VERY easy to follow. i just want to see if the string touches the fret when you fret between the 2-3rd.

click that second link.


Okay on the low e string it has a small gap, but the others seem really close, possibly even touching the fret.
#30
just fret it, and let me know if it's touching. if it is, we can do a step by step, take of the nut, put a shim under it and that should allow you to lower the action at the bridge.

edit: tap the string at the first, while fretting between the 2-3.

does it tap the fret, or is it dead, like it was touching the fret all along.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 28, 2009,
#31
If it's too low you can shim the nut which is rather easy...I'm going out to my little shack to play but will check back later to see if you found out the problem, good luck
My Stuff:
Austin Strat Copy - Lefty
(New and Improved with Bill Lawrence 290/280 Pickups)
MIM Telecaster - Lefty
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
TS-9 with a few mods
Dunlop GCB-95 Wah
#32
Quote by jj1565
just fret it, and let me know if it's touching. if it is, we can do a step by step, take of the nut, put a shim under it and that should allow you to lower the action at the bridge.

edit: tap the string at the first, while fretting between the 2-3.

does it tap the fret, or is it dead, like it was touching the fret all along.


What's a shim?

They are very close to dead, but no they were not touching the fret all along, before I tapped them.

I heard you can shim with teflon tape?
How do you "install" the shim, do I need to remove the strings first?
Will installing a shim make the higher fret strings lower b/c the action is as low as it can get on the bridge and they're still high?
Last edited by hxcmatt at Aug 28, 2009,
#33
well a shim in this case might just be a couple slices of writing paper superglued under the nut to lift it up.

most of the time, once the tension is taken off the nut, it can be tapped out.
*you might have to score the edge of the nut with a sharp knife first, then tap out holding a screwdriver to the nut, lightly tapping on the handle with a light hammer.

then it can be shimmed.

here's another easy to follow link...

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Quickies/NutShim/nutshim.html
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 28, 2009,
#34
Quote by hxcmatt

Will installing a shim make the higher fret strings lower b/c the action is as low as it can get on the bridge and they're still high?



ok, you're saying that the bridge is adjusted as low as it can go.

and it's still high at the highest frets?


ok it's a strat style.

is the bridge level? or is the ass end up in the air.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 28, 2009,
#35
Quote by jj1565
well a shim in this case might just be a couple slices of writing paper superglued under the nut to lift it up.

most of the time, once the tension is taken off the nut, it can be tapped out.
*you might have to score the edge of the nut with a sharp knife first, then tap out holding a screwdriver to the nut, lightly tapping on the handle with a light hammer.

then it can be shimmed.

here's another easy to follow link...

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Quickies/NutShim/nutshim.html


So i put paper on top of the nut? The strings exert so much pressure i would think the strings would easily tear the paper...
Will this correct the angle of my strings which are too high towards the bridge despite the action being as low as possible?
Do i need to remove strings?
#36
Quote by jj1565
ok, you're saying that the bridge is adjusted as low as it can go.

and it's still high at the highest frets?


ok it's a strat style.

is the bridge level? or is the ass end up in the air.


Yes the bridge adjusters for the action of my guitar are as low as possible yet the strings are way too high...

The bridge IS level; parallel to the body of the guitar.
#37
Quote by hxcmatt
So i put paper on top of the nut? The strings exert so much pressure i would think the strings would easily tear the paper...
Will this correct the angle of my strings which are too high towards the bridge despite the action being as low as possible?
Do i need to remove strings?



no the paper would go under the nut.

but ok, i reread the thread and you might do much better with the shim at the neck rather than at the nut.

you're saying you can't lower your saddles and get the action lower.

so i think the problem is that the neck is tilted in the neck pocket.

you've got a bolt on neck right?


look at the pics halfway down tha page here...
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/94047-somebody-please-splain-me-about-shims.html
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Aug 28, 2009,
#38
Quote by jj1565
no the paper would go under the nut.

but ok, i reread the thread and you might do much better with the shim at the neck rather than at the nut.

you're saying you can't lower your saddles and get the action lower.

so i think the problem is that the neck is tilted in the neck pocket.

you've got a bolt on neck right?


look at the pics halfway down tha page here...
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/94047-somebody-please-splain-me-about-shims.html


Shim at the neck where would that go?
Yes i can't lower anymore, theyre as low as they can go yet the strings are high, except the first fret. It gets progressively higher as you get closer towards bridge.

What does the neck being tilted at neck pocket (what is that) mean?

Ya i believe it's bolt on.
#39
ok click that link. nvm, i linked it here. i hope to make it more clear.

forget the nut for a minute. because i think you'll want to concentrate on the neck pocket.
that's where the neck and the body of the guitar meet.

i dont think the neck is sitting in the pocket correctly, and that's what's throwing off your string angle.

Quote by guy from other site


One example:
If you want to raise the action (because of buzzing strings), but your saddles are already all the way up,
putting a shim on the front side of the neck pocket will increase the distance of the strings to the fretboard.

If your action is too high, even with the saddles all the way down,
putting a shim on the back side of the neck pocket will decrease the distance of the strings to the fretboard.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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