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#1
Blackness is the absence of light, but you can only see black if your eyes TELL your brain [via the optic nerves] "hey, there's no light here."

So if your brain doesn't get ANY message from your eyes, then what do you see? You can't see a color, because your brain... just doesn't know.



P.S. Partially inspired by the topic about being deaf and hearing yourself eat a potato chip or something.

EDIT: I'm not a dumbass. I know that you're blind if this happens, but calling it "blindness" has NOTHING to do with the question I'm asking.
Last edited by Msu_Man04 at Aug 28, 2009,
#2
Teegman did this once, we decided that you are not aware of any kind of blackness at all. Blindness means you cant see. Cover your eyes and open them. That's what it's like. You can't see anything.
Last edited by bendystraw at Aug 28, 2009,
#3
You don't *see* anything because you have no sight sense. Just like people don't have a sixth sense (debatable), and it doesn't feel odd or anything to not have that cognition, having no sight doesn't feel any different.
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Last edited by Kevy Absolution at Aug 28, 2009,
#4
if your optic nerves dont work wouldn't that make you blind?
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#6
Quote by bass-man9712
if your optic nerves dont work wouldn't that make you blind?


Yes, but a person could be blind by their eyes getting cut up or foggy, in which case their eyes tell their brain that they see *color goes here*.

If the optic nerves don't work, the brain gets NO signal whatsover about "seeing" anything. So you would have NO sight. Not black, not white, nothing. and black is NOT nothing.

I guess it's something that a person who isn't blind like that can comprehend.
#8
I not blind, since I am responding to this, but according to some people I've heard blind people SINCE BIRTH can see shadows, or at least imagine they see them (hearing makes you think you can perceive things, more or less like dolphin stuff.) The rest blind people REMEMBER COLORS.

Basically: No nerves = no communication. Call your mother when she's in China using only your voice. (No technology allowed).
Last edited by Fiire at Aug 28, 2009,
#9
Quote by Msu_Man04
and black is NOT nothing.


... Are you sure about that?

Maybe what we call "black" is not nothing, but nothing is what we call "black."
#10
Quote by Kevy Absolution
You don't *see* anything because you have no hearing sense. Just like people don't have a sixth sense (debatable), and it doesn't feel odd or anything to not have that cognition, having no sight doesn't feel any different.

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#12
Quote by RedDeath9
... Are you sure about that?

Maybe what we call "black" is not nothing, but nothing is what we call "black."



I do believe that blind people "see" a pure black. Purer than anything we've ever imagined.
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#14
Quote by RedDeath9
... Are you sure about that?

Maybe what we call "black" is not nothing, but nothing is what we call "black."


I bet the is a contradiction: A is not B, but B is A.

A >< B yet A = B?
#15
Quote by Fiire
I not blind, since I am responding to these, but according to some people I've heard blind people SINCE BIRTH can see shadows, or at least imagine they see them (hearing makes you think you can perceive things, more or less like dolphin stuff.) The rest blind people REMEMBER COLORS.

Basically: No nerves = no communication. Call your mother when she's in China using only your voice. (No technology allowed).


Only the shadows part had anything to do with what I was asking. But if they see shadows of people [not imagining it], then their nerves work, and their eyes are malfunctioning so that they don't see properly, which is not the situation in my question.

Okay, allow me to rephrase the question.

What if someone spooned out both of your eyes, and cut off your eyes. Both of them. So there's no signal going down your nerves, because nothing's putting a signal in there.
#16
Quote by Fiire
I bet the is a contradiction: A is not B, but B is A.

A >< B yet A = B?

squares are rectangles yet rectangles arent squares.
#18
You know there's two different paths - 'what', and 'where'. So if your 'what' path doesn't work, you won't be able to 'see' a thing, but still navigate around objects such as tables and people or whatever is in your way, if your 'where' path still works. You just wouldn't be able to identify the objects.
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#19
Quote by damian_91
squares are rectangles yet rectangles arent squares.


I got to ask a Geometry teacher for that… but I think a square is l^2 and a rectangle is bh.
Not the same formula for area.
#20
Quote by guitarsftw


I do believe that blind people "see" a pure black. Purer than anything we've ever imagined.


Quote by Fiire
I bet the is a contradiction: A is not B, but B is A.

A >< B yet A = B?


Now that I look over my sentence, it's pretty damn confusing. That's what happens when I try to sound philosophical.

But yeah. Seeing nothing is the same as seeing "black." (As in, what humans perceive to be black.)
#21
Your brain would make up stuff based on the other senses. Like Daredevil.
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#22
Maybe this way it is easier to imagine:
Blinds never think they can't actually see because they've NEVER (some) seen before.
You never think of how dying feels because you've never actually died. (Right?)
#23
Ur an idiot. Ur eyes work like mirrors. They observe light and reflect it. If they arent observing light, then it is just blackness. Black is the abscense of light, despite what people tell you. So they most likely just see blackness. If people gradually lose their sight, then they may see blurredness if they lose the ability to detect colors.
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#24
what is the color when black is burned?
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#25
Quote by Watterboy
Ur an idiot. Ur eyes work like mirrors. They observe light and reflect it. If they arent observing light, then it is just blackness. Black is the abscense of light, despite what people tell you. So they most likely just see blackness. If people gradually lose their sight, then they may see blurredness if they lose the ability to detect colors.



They can't "see" anything because no messages are going to their brain. They have no input in a "sight" form. Only their other senses.
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#26
Quote by Watterboy
Ur an idiot. Ur eyes work like mirrors. They observe light and reflect it. If they arent observing light, then it is just blackness. Black is the abscense of light, despite what people tell you. So they most likely just see blackness. If people gradually lose their sight, then they may see blurredness if they lose the ability to detect colors.


Actually they don't reflect light, we're not cats. We absorb, and transform into electrical impulses that go into your back of the brain for processing.
#27
Quote by Fiire
I got to ask a Geometry teacher for that… but I think a square is l^2 and a rectangle is bh.
Not the same formula for area.

wat. who's talking about areas? and the formula for their areas IS the same.
a rectangle doesnt meet all the conditions to be a square (A isn't B) but a square does meet all the conditions to be a rectangle (B is A)
#28
that's debatable according to point of view. I rather have a rectangular notebook than a squared one.
#29
I just remembered that amputees lose the areas of the brain that controlled the lost body part; it gets consumed by adjacent brain regions. So a person with severed Optic Nerves, with no sight stimuli, would eventually lose their occipital lobe, thus becoming permenantly unable to perceive any kind of sight. They would 'see' nothing, which is not the same as everything being black. If you lose you sense of taste, that doesn't make everything bitter.
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#30
Quote by David Blackbird
I just remembered that amputees lose the areas of the brain that controlled the lost body part; it gets consumed by adjacent brain regions. So a person with severed Optic Nerves, with no sight stimuli, would eventually lose their occipital lobe, thus becoming permenantly unable to perceive any kind of sight. They would 'see' nothing, which is not the same as everything being black. If you lose you sense of taste, that doesn't make everything bitter.


This is just something I thought of right now... I don't know whether it's the case or not.

But is that why blind people's other senses become heightened? They have more room for growth now that the part of the brain that controls the eyesight is gone?
#31
Quote by Watterboy
Ur an idiot. B.) Ur eyes work like mirrors. They observe light and reflect it. If they arent observing light, then it is just blackness. C.)Black is the abscense of light, despite what people tell you. So they most likely just see blackness. If people gradually lose their sight, then they may see blurredness if they lose the ability to detect colors.


A.) Lrn 2 spll u idyot.

B.) No they don't. Cats' eyes do. Our eyes do not work exactly the same as theirs.

C.) I... That's exactly what I said in my first post. Blackness is the absence of light. That means your eyes have to TELL your brain, "Hey, there's no light, it's black." I'm asking what if they CAN'T get that message across? Their brain has no idea.

Someone before this said something about, over time, that part of the brain stopping its function and being consumed [though consumed is not the word I'd use] by other areas. I don't even want to know what your sight sense would be like if that happened.

I think someone else before said something about us not knowing because we haven't experienced it. I agree, I think. We just can't comprehend it unless we've experienced it.

I do NOT agree with whomever said that they see PURE black. That would still be a signal being sent to your brain, would it not?
#32
Quote by RedDeath9
This is just something I thought of right now... I don't know whether it's the case or not.

But is that why blind people's other senses become heightened? They have more room for growth now that the part of the brain that controls the eyesight is gone?

Probably.
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#33
Quote by Msu_Man04
I do NOT agree with whomever said that they see PURE black. That would still be a signal being sent to your brain, would it not?


Hmm, I think they think they see black.
#34
Quote by Fiire
I got to ask a Geometry teacher for that… but I think a square is l^2 and a rectangle is bh.
Not the same formula for area.


A square's area is also bh. A square is a type of rectangle. It's a rectangle where all the sides are of congruent length.

/ot
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#36
Quote by RedDeath9
This is just something I thought of right now... I don't know whether it's the case or not.

But is that why blind people's other senses become heightened? They have more room for growth now that the part of the brain that controls the eyesight is gone?

I doubt it, I believe it would just be an increased attentiveness towards the other senses to make up for their loss of sight.


Anyway, TS, as far as I know this is part-science, part-psychology... I'm fairly certain it is your brain that decides how to make up the image you 'see' based on the light taken into the eye, sent down the optic nerve after hitting the cones and rods in the back of your eye (on the retina? been ages since I did biology), and so I imagine the person will still 'see' something and it is likely to be darkness, though I believe most blind people see a murkyness. The problem here is determining if these people are 100% blind or just partially (only slightly) sighted.

Furthermore, you could add that many blind people have functioning optic nerves but damage to other parts of the eye, and those seeing a murky/lighter-than-black colour have partial intake of light, thus perceiving a 'greyed-out world'. Think of it this way, it all depends on where the image you 'see' when you look at things is developed, and I'm fairly certain that is in the brain as you can imagine something and picture it in your head without being able to see it (and in dreams you see things that are not really happening... you are seeing things in your mind, so obviously have an ability to see things without the use of the optic nerve.


Tl;dr, the question TS poses has debatable answers but I'm certain people with non-functioning optic nerves see something, and I believe that something to be whatever they picture in their heads based on the information they can draw from their other senses. You can profile people based on hearing their voice, based on memories you have and though you can be far wrong you can also be right by coincedence.


Edit:
Quote by Msu_Man04

I do NOT agree with whomever said that they see PURE black. That would still be a signal being sent to your brain, would it not?

Not necessarily, but I explained that prior to this edit. Anyway, it depends on whether you believe these people can picture colours we see or literally have no consciousness of a sight sense and thus not knowing what they are missing they don't 'see' anything... I don't believe that is the case, but hey. Try thinking how you could explain sight to a person born blind without describing things by how they look.
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 29, 2009,
#37
Quote by damian_91
squares are rectangles yet rectangles arent always squares.



Fixed
#38
Quote by Fiire
I bet the is a contradiction: A is not B, but B is A.

A >< B yet A = B?

This is probably why I can't wrap my mind around what he said. I've tried interpreting it two different, confused ways without making sense of it.
#40
What do blind people dream about?
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