#1
I am a firm believer that having good guitar tone is an essential part of being noticed and being successful as a band. Even almost more important that songwriting in some cases.

If i see a band live and they have horrible guitar tone, i probably will not take them seriously. If I see a band that has decent guitar tone, I think, ok cool. If i see a band that blows me away with how they sound, no matter how awkward they looked or how boring their music was, i would be all over the music.

So many bands, (well within the music i listen to) stick with the status quo, and oddly enough, usually the ones who have unique guitar tone are the ones that get huge, even if they aren't the most musically minded. But often times they come hand in hand.

Thats why im always an asshole and tell people not to get hybrid amps, newer less responsive tube amps, and stuff like that. Coming from someone who played a peavey valveking for a year and than bought an older tube amp, the difference is incredible. You realize you are a sloppy player, and you develop your own nuances and your own playing style as you figure out how to get everything you play sound like "you"

discuss?
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



Quote by Highway60Bob
I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#2
Tone is everything.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#4
It's all subjective.

From a personal standpoint, you could have the best technique and style in the world but I'd still throw batteries at you from the nosebleed section if your tone was bad.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#5
I don't know if I would appreciate Maiden nearly as much if it weren't for Adrian's sick tone. I think it's extremely important, at least in most genres.
The playground of the world
#6
without good tone no one will like you. even nonmusicians won't respond well to someone with bad tone. there's a reason why the general public will listen to a santana solo. he has amazing TONE. if he had crappy tone, NO ONE would listen to him. So i'd have to agree that tone is definitely everything. however some people say tone comes from your hands, not so much your amp. i'm completely against that. i think some tone does come from your own hand but i think MOST tone that the general public will hear is coming from your amp and amp setting
#7
Well, considering TONE IS YOUR SOUND It's really important but you also need to know how to play well.
#8
i would have thought that this doesnt need to be discussed...of course its vital to your overall sound and i agree with the tube amps, cant beat a proper driven class A amp.

had trouble thinking of a thread topic pmeg?!
#9
no i just wanted to discuss this because people seem to not care about it enough.
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



Quote by Highway60Bob
I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#10
i believe most of what your saying has merit, and is correct enough to maybe even be called true. but there are some exceptions and differences in what you say as to how i matured as a musician. if i were to have read this 5 years ago i probably would have wholeheartidly agreed with you but i will address particular points


I am a firm believer that having good guitar tone is an essential part of being noticed and being successful as a band. Even almost more important that songwriting in some cases.


yes, good tone is key. it does have to sound pleasing to the ear for commercial success. and cutting in the mix to make yourself heard is very essential. but i also believe that good tone can be limiting at times: richard hell, dead kennedy's, black flag, etc. all had horrible tones(offensive to the ear), but i deeply respect their music just as much as zappa, trower, and srv. so good tone may actually get in the way of what you want to do, it is the exception though. also the 'being noticed' deal, yes that is important, i have gotten very good at it. but for the past 3 or 4 years my focus is on how not to be noticed. how to sacrifice how much attention you get to put more attention on the song itself. it's actually a whole lot harder than being noticed.


Thats why im always an asshole and tell people not to get hybrid amps, newer less responsive tube amps, and stuff like that.

i am a pretty reserved musician when it comes to gear taste. i like things that most other people like. but recently i have been branching and doing things i have never done before, like using a ss amp when i think it fits better. or using a crappier guitar cuz it sounds better here or there. also there are misconceptions about equipment like ss and hybrid amps, i feel taking the overall quality of the product rather than pigeonholing product types is important to getting the 'unique' tones you talked of earlier. my ace in the hole is music man amps, music man amps are hybrid, and i'll go the pepsi with any fender.

Coming from someone who played a peavey valveking for a year and than bought an older tube amp, the difference is incredible

wait til you go back again with a more critical mind to actually find out what the 'lesser' amps do better than the better amps. like ss amps will give you a different tone just because of the technology of it's construction. for example, i think ss amps give odd harmonics while tube amps give even harmonics; it's from the way they compress signals. being able to look beyond 'better' and to critically evaluate 'different' is a whole new realm of tone.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Aug 28, 2009,
#11
Quote by gumbilicious



wait til you go back again with a more critical mind to actually find out what the 'lesser' amps do better than the better amps. like ss amps will give you a different tone just because of the technology of it's construction. for example, i think ss amps give odd harmonics while tube amps give even harmonics; it's from the way they compress signals. being able to look beyond 'better' and to critically evaluate 'different' is a whole new realm of tone.


i definitely agree with this. i just think if you are attempting to develop your playing style and sound, playing on a tube amp is really the best way. Every single nuance of your playing shows, and in this case tone really does come from the hands, and it really does make you a better guitar player
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



Quote by Highway60Bob
I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#12
So older tube amps sound better,
used is the only way to go?
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix (R.I.P.)

"I'd much rather be home playing my guitar"
-Eddie Van Halen
#13
Tone is very important, even to the average listener who has never even thought about tone. It reacts on a subliminal level. The sound of the band in general is very important. Nothing like a great bass tone and well tuned drums...and a great sound man.
#14
Quote by lilfid12
So older tube amps sound better,
used is the only way to go?


Hoping thats sarcasm

If its not, i'll say this. Used amps came from an era where quality was different. it was hand built to an older technology, and a lot of time and effort was put into every individual tube amp.

These days, its all done by assembly line or completely automated systems of machines. The quality is still there, but the love, care and finesse isnt the same.

Thats why you can buy and "Handwired" Ibanez Tubescreamer now, for twice the price of a regular Tubescreamer

New tube amps sound great however! My JSX is a dream to play, and I havent gotten a bad tone out of it yet.

It depends on the quality
Peavey JSX 120 Half Stack
Mockingbird Evil Edge SE
Mockingbird Special(White)

Set sail to sea but pulled off course by the light of golden treasure --Hetfield, the Unforgiven Pirate

So I dub Thee Unforgiven Three! -How it should have been
#15
These days, its all done by assembly line or completely automated systems of machines. The quality is still there, but the love, care and finesse isnt the same.


thats why we have what are considered boutiqe companies. even some big name companies still offer handwired versions of their amps, but like you said about the tubescreamer, at a greater cost. but so what, if you want it then save up for it. just as an example. the Vox AC30HH is something I would consider worth the price difference of the Vox AC30cc2. for what reasons? thats for the buyer to decide. and then you have to consider that AC30's according to the Beatles at least had poor reliability even back in their handwired haydays.
-----------------------------------------------------------

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Taylor 314ce
#16
One day when you think you're a pretty good player and you have "good tone" you'll run into a musician. He'll proceed to pick up your axe turn some knobs and just have his way with your amp making it scream, sing and cry in ways you've never heard. He'll hand your guitar back to you with the fretboard smoking and the amp asking for a post railing cigarette. You will then realize that you arent really that good and that its the person feeding his emotion and energy into the instruments that makes the sound............ If tone was everything that how can people say they like Howlin Wolf and Robert Johnson? The recording quality, or lack thereof, was bad but I didn't randomly dismiss them. I listened to what they had to say and the felling pouring through the instrument. I can pretty much guarantee that there isnt a person registered here who's seem them live. If you base your opinion on someone because of their amp, its the same as dismissing someone because of their car of a girl judging you on what you do for a living.
Epi Les Paul-APH1/Mean 90
MIM Strat

Korg DTR1000
ADA MP-1
Mesa/Boogie Quad Pre
Mesa/Boogie Midi Matrix
<power amp>

Quote by rhcp_freak
If you're EQ'd loose, you'll sound loose anyway.
#17
Live, 95% of the audience can't tell the differnce between 'good' and 'okay' tone. Most people can hear 'bad' tone in a second, but do you really think an audience would notice any difference between a Vox AC30, a modelled AC30 on a POD, or something like a Laney VC30? Of course not.

Equally, if you use a really amazing setup, people will subconsciously notice a slight improvement in the band's sound, though they probably won't work out why why.


And as for recordings; well, production makes the biggest difference there, though the better the amp, the better the results.

Basically, as long as you have a reasonably good amp that's suited to the style you play, that's as much as you need. Anything better you're really buying for yourself, and perhaps the 5% of the audience who appreciate good guitar tone.
#18
yes, but is all this boutique and critical ear to tone really necessary? will you not be as good of a guitar player without your matamp with vintage sound city cab? is that the point of this thread?

dunno. i think there are natural processes with how musician's/guitarists develop that make these points more blown up than they really are. i feel the natural progression of a musician(for the majority of us anyway) start on worse equipment. i know i always pinned a progression in my playing with the alure better equipment. meaning we know there is better stuff out there and we feel one reason we aren't unlocking out full potential as a musicians is because of our denied access to this 'better equipment'.

now you may be a bit older and can afford some of this 'better equipment', this is where people get divided on equipment issues. some people just claim that it doesn't matter what you have, just learn how to play it. some people hang their hat alot more on the tonal benefits of 'better equipment'. i think the question should sound more like 'so what do you want to do now?' and what i mean by this is 'what is motivating you to play', and many people would like to project their values(what motivates them) onto other people. this is called 'human nature' or more poetically 'the human condition'.

richard only plays for himself, nice equipment is not a factor in how much he enjoys his playing(other than the ds-1 he uses for distortion), he still plays with a crappy kramer and a solid state amp. he records with garage band and doesn't stop talking about how great it is.

mike has a top of the line tube amp from hell and wants the guitar tone of his heroes. he custom orders equipment and has owned most major chase pedals and amps at one time or another. he wants to be in a famous rock and roll band and get laid alot. he needs sexy gear for this

dan plays to expand himself, he is a tone nut, but also likes to question what he accepts as tonal truths. he is not motivated by coolness of popularity associated with playing so much as the puzzle it constantly presents. while tone is important to dan, he uses it more as tools for jobs, so there is no pinnacle tone for him, just a different tool.

austin is a multi musician that loves music, specifically how it sounds to him. he went to school to play and is very good. he is a tone geek with a goal in mind and buys great gear to that end.

jeremiah is a gear elitist in the best way, he'll know how much your gear is worth and is motivated heavily by the coolness factor of the gear as much as tone.

these are all people i know and respect as musicians, and everyone would say that tone is important(even richard, who doesn't take much stock in better equipment). but how these charecters treat guitar gear in relation to their tone is personal to their motivations in music and collecting in the first place. so when you ask 'is tone important', you're kinda reflecting a certain motivating factor that is popular among guitarists and really doesn't have a simple answer like: 'DUH'. and the reason for this is because everyone says tone is important or isn't important, but they should really be explaining their motivations in why they play to give their reasoning on tone parity
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Aug 29, 2009,
#19
^ Audience appreciation or no, bad tone still = battery tossing.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#20
You need tone but it is not everything. I've played on a Marshall 1959SLP before with a Les Paul (both are my friend's gear) and fell in love with the tone, but I wouldn't instantly like a band based purely on it. I like the music to have loads of energy like AC/DC 1976-1978