#1
How would I write a hungarian minor key signature? Particularly G# hungarian minor (Harmonic minor with raised 4th).

G# - A# - B - Cx - D# - E - Fx - G#

Should I just break the rules and write it as this?:

G# - A# - B - D - D# - E - G - G#

I know this may seem like being purposefully childish, but I really do use this scale a lot.

I suppose I could write it as Ab - Bb - Cb - D - Eb - Fb - G- Ab, but that key would also break rules since D is supposed to be the fourth flat in they key sig and this key skipped both D and G in the flats.

So basically, what i'm asking is how you would name the notes in this key and also how would write this into a key signature. Should I just write it as G# or Ab minor and write the raised fourth in as an accidental and notate in the score that it stays that way throughout they key?
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#2
as a rule scale signitures can NOT contain more than one of a note (ex, D, D#). the first way is correct. and the last one is Ab hungarian minor, not G# :P (granted theyre the same notes, theyre 'different' scales, enharmonically speaking).
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#3
Quote by TK1
as a rule scale signitures can NOT contain more than one of a note (ex, D, D#). the first way is correct. and the last one is Ab hungarian minor, not G# :P (granted theyre the same notes, theyre 'different' scales, enharmonically speaking).



I know it's Ab hungarian minor. I just didn't want to write that in because i thought it would be obvious i knew that. I also mentioned that it's Ab minor in the last bit i wrote.
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#4
Write it out the second way, it makes more sense.
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#7
'Hungarian minor' isn't a key. You would use the key signature for G# minor (5 sharps) and add accidentals where appropriate.
#8
^what griff said.

G# hungarian is no more a key than E pentatonic or C blues - it is a scale derived from a key - in this case the key is G# minor, with the 4th sharpened, so you should have the normal key sig for g# and add the accidentals where appropriate. (that means the #4th and natural 7th)

This is the same as if you were writing out the key signature for any given harmonic minor, the natural 7th would be notated as the b7 in the key sig and included as an accidental in the piece


EDIT: i also dislike your thread title - this is an open forum, theory noobs are perfectly welcome, certainly to read if not answer
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#9
Quote by doive
^what griff said.

G# hungarian is no more a key than E pentatonic or C blues - it is a scale derived from a key - in this case the key is G# minor, with the 4th sharpened, so you should have the normal key sig for g# and add the accidentals where appropriate. (that means the #4th and natural 7th)

This is the same as if you were writing out the key signature for any given harmonic minor, the natural 7th would be notated as the b7 in the key sig and included as an accidental in the piece


EDIT: i also dislike your thread title - this is an open forum, theory noobs are perfectly welcome, certainly to read if not answer



I know it's not technically a key. I was asking how I would write a key signature for it, and if you read my post i said "Should I just write it as G# minor and add in the accidentals to the score?". Secondly, lots of people post in MT threads claiming to know things they have no knowledge of. I wish i had a dollar for every time I've seen "There is no such thing as E#."
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#10
Quote by StewieSwan
I know it's not technically a key. I was asking how I would write a key signature for it, and if you read my post i said "Should I just write it as G# minor and add in the accidentals to the score?". Secondly, lots of people post in MT threads claiming to know things they have no knowledge of. I wish i had a dollar for every time I've seen "There is no such thing as E#."
Well if you knew it couldn't be a key why would you ask how to write it in a key signature...

Sounds like some thing a 'theory noob' would ask
#11
Quote by rockinrider55
Well if you knew it couldn't be a key why would you ask how to write it in a key signature...

Sounds like some thing a 'theory noob' would ask



Because sometimes key signatures are altered when it's using an eastern scale.
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#12
Quote by StewieSwan
Because sometimes key signatures are altered when it's using an eastern scale.


In western music, key signatures are always the same. You can't create your own. Use the key signature for G# minor (or whatever your scale was, I can't remember) and add accidentals for the altered notes.
#13
Quote by StewieSwan
Because sometimes key signatures are altered when it's using an eastern scale.
#14
Quote by StewieSwan
I know it's not technically a key. I was asking how I would write a key signature for it, and if you read my post i said "Should I just write it as G# minor and add in the accidentals to the score?".


if it's not a key why would you want a key signature for it. you wouldn't ask for the autograph of a cartoon character...

i do apologise for not properly reading your OP properly however
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#15
Quote by rockinrider55



Oh you're so clever.


Edit: Even though it's not technically its own key, perhaps it would still be written into the key signature and break the rule to make the actual score less messy with accidentals. It does happen you know. Not all music follows standard western rules.
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Last edited by StewieSwan at Aug 31, 2009,
#16
Um, what's wrong with using Ab Hungarian Minor, exactly? Seems fine to me.

Well, actually, the best option would be to have G#m as the key signature and keep writing accidentals where necessary. If you deviate from the typical key signatures, you'll make it hard for people to read your music.
#17
Quote by Eastwinn
Um, what's wrong with using Ab Hungarian Minor, exactly? Seems fine to me.

Well, actually, the best option would be to have G#m as the key signature and keep writing accidentals where necessary. If you deviate from the typical key signatures, you'll make it hard for people to read your music.



Ab would be weird because it would have Fb and Cb, but D natural and G natural, which still breaks the rules because D and G are flatted before F and C, so it would have a ton of accidental flats throughout the score.
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#18
Quote by StewieSwan
Edit: Even though it's not technically its own key, perhaps it would still be written into the key signature and break the rule to make the actual score less messy with accidentals. It does happen you know. Not all music follows standard western rules.
All of the classical periods and all of the modern music genres are 'western' music. So the only thing that you could be referring to would be the music of Asia, which has already been westernized for some time.
#19
Quote by StewieSwan
Oh you're so clever.


Edit: Even though it's not technically its own key, perhaps it would still be written into the key signature and break the rule to make the actual score less messy with accidentals. It does happen you know. Not all music follows standard western rules.


No. the only person who would understand that would be you. If you gave the notation to a musician and he noticed you had put down a totally different key signature then he would probably think you're a fool who can't write key signatures and doesn't understand the circle of fifths.

You may think its 'easier' to write a new key signature but in reality it would only make it alot more confusing.
#20
Quote by StewieSwan
Ab would be weird because it would have Fb and Cb, but D natural and G natural, which still breaks the rules because D and G are flatted before F and C, so it would have a ton of accidental flats throughout the score.


Abm is seven flats. D and G are obtained with natural signs. Even if the flattened G and D are never used, it is still correct to write them in the key signature. While a person who needs to work out their sheet music, rather than just sight read it, would find it easier not to deal with accidentals, as you become more adept at sight-reading, the ideas of the accidentals being in a specific order based on the circle of fifths, should become apparent, and accidentals should cease to pose a problem, resulting in 5 sharps or 7 flats being the simplest way for the majority of musicians to read something using the G# hungarian minor, or Ab hungarian minor.
#22
G# natural minor key signature, then you'd write out the accidentals as needed.
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