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#1
I want to learn about Power Chords. I only know the simple ones, but i have seen a lot of different power chord versions in tabs. I know these forms:

E
B
G
D 5
A 5
E 3

And.

E
B
G
D
A 5
E 3

And,
E
B
G
D
A 3
E 3

But i've seen a lot more different power chords in song tabs. I want to learn about those, not just the fingering but the theory behind them. In a lot of tabs i've also seen power chords combined with lead. Do they just use the vertical minor or major scale pattern closest to the root note of the power chord?

I've searched on google but I only found those basic forms of power chords.
#2
I dont think your third example is indeed a power chord. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, however.

Power chords pretty much have the same shape over the whole neck dude. Here
G|---------2------3--5--
D|--2-----2------3--5---
A|--2-----0------1--3---
E|--0---------------------

Sorry that some of those are uneven, I cant seem to make them even, but I think you'll get it.

Also,

e---------------------5
b----------7----8----3
G---2--3--3----5----
D---0--1--------------
A-----------------------
E-----------------------

There you have it, there is the position of any power chord on any string.

They are all the same, except the ones that start on the G string. Wehn your root note is on the G string and you want to play a power chord, remember to take your second finger just one fret below where it normally goes for all your other power chords
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#3
Basically a powerchord is just a rootnote and it's fifth and it's octave, which may or may not be played... Since they're neither major or minor you can indeed use either the major or minor scale of the rootnote.

There's one more shape though, which would be like 3355xx which is an inversion of the C5 chord, which sounds a bit heavier, than just x355xx.
EDIT: yeah the last example you used isn't a powerchord, it's a perfect 4th...
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Last edited by HeliuM at Sep 1, 2009,
#4
Bah he beat me to it ^

I frigen had a nice detailed post for you but my internet freezes up for some reason whenever I make a long post. It pisses me off because I lost everything I described for you.

Basically power chords are commonly refered to as 5th chords because they contain either the 1 - 5 - 8 notes of the scale (In the case of your first example G - D - G) or just the 1 and 5 (G and D). They are the same thing one just adds the octave the other doesnt.


The third example you gave isnt a 5th chord (power chord). It contains the 1 and 4 of the notes in that scale. Which are G and C in this case.


Personally I like to use these kind of chords for really chunky heavy riffs along with regular powerchords

e|
B|
G|
D|5
A|3
E|3

Edit: I'm actually very dissapointed my first post didnt go through... I explained it so much better
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 1, 2009,
#5
basically... the first one is the most used power chord because the sound has depth to it. This one in paticular is G5, because the root note is a G, and it is also using a 5th note (the fifth note in the G Maj scale, which is a D). The last note is also a G. it is used to make the chord sound fuller. the second Power Chord is the same as the first, just without the octave. It doesnt really matter which chords you use. Im not sure about the last one, but i think it is a G4 chord because it uses a G(root note) and a C ( fourth note in G Maj scale). use this pattern for all these notes and you have learnt powerchords
#6
Quote by robinlint

E
B
G
D
A 3
E 3



The E you put should be a D... Dropped D tuning
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#7
A powerchord is just a major chord with the 3rd removed, it's just a root and 5th - they're described perfectly by chord theory.

So, anytime you're playing a regular chord just omit anything that isn't a root or fifth and you've got a powerchord, they're just major chords with less notes.
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#8
Quote by Dream Floyd
The E you put should be a D... Dropped D tuning


Who said anything about dropped tuning?
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#9
Power Chords are formed by taking the root note and adding a 5th and an octave. Examples would be; if your root note is open E on the low E string you would add B on the A string and E on the D string (0-2-2 starting on open E). If your root note is G on the E string you would add D on the A string and G on the D string (3-5-5 from the E string).

Power Chords are often named by adding a "5" after the root note. Example; E5, C5, Bb5. The 5 in the name comes from the fact that you're adding a 5th between the root note and the octave.

The most comfortable way to play a power chord is by fretting the root note with your pointer finger, the 5th with your ring finger and the octave with your pinky finger.

Try moving this shape around the fretboard starting on the low E and A strings. These are all power chords. You can play power chords starting on higher strings but start out with the low two.

Power chords are the building blocks of a lot of rock, metal and punk. Quite a few songs are written using ONLY power chords. They're a great place to start because they're so simple. Later, you can learn how to form major, minor, 7th and tons of other chords by using a similar barre shape on the fretboard and making slight changes.

There are literally thousands of scales and modes that can work for leads or melodies over power chords. Start my learning pentatonic scales and base your lead around the root notes of the power chords you are playing. Example; If you're playing G5, D5, C5 try using a G pentatonic scale.

I just wrote a lot. Have fun!
#10
Quote by Abacus11
Quite a few songs are written using ONLY power chords.


Try like 95% of modern music hahaha.


Im kidding of course. But yeah its actually alot more songs then people realize.

Power chords just sound good with distortion as opposed to other chords
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#11
What are some good sonata arctica or metallica (the ballad-y songs such as nothing else mattters, but one with power chords) or iron maiden songs to start off with power chords?

Quote by Dragonis
Bah he beat me to it ^

I frigen had a nice detailed post for you but my internet freezes up for some reason whenever I make a long post. It pisses me off because I lost everything I described for you.

Aww... that's too bad. Do you mind writing it again when you have the time?


Basically power chords are commonly refered to as 5th chords because they contain either the 1 - 5 - 8 notes of the scale (In the case of your first example G - D - G) or just the 1 and 5 (G and D). They are the same thing one just adds the octave the other doesnt.

Thanks.


The third example you gave isnt a 5th chord (power chord). It contains the 1 and 4 of the notes in that scale. Which are G and C in this case.

So that would be a 4th chord. Well, it sounds nice to me.


Personally I like to use these kind of chords for really chunky heavy riffs along with regular powerchords

e|
B|
G|
D|5
A|3
E|3

I tried that one.. that one's wicked

---


A powerchord is just a major chord with the 3rd removed, it's just a root and 5th - they're described perfectly by chord theory.

So, anytime you're playing a regular chord just omit anything that isn't a root or fifth and you've got a powerchord, they're just major chords with less notes.

Thanks, Steven Seagull

---


Power Chords are formed by taking the root note and adding a 5th and an octave.

Thanks, that is a very helpful tip


Examples would be; if your root note is open E on the low E string you would add B on the A string and E on the D string (0-2-2 starting on open E). If your root note is G on the E string you would add D on the A string and G on the D string (3-5-5 from the E string).

I get it.. So for C, that would be C G C(octave)

---


The most comfortable way to play a power chord is by fretting the root note with your pointer finger, the 5th with your ring finger and the octave with your pinky finger.

That's the way I do it.

---


Try moving this shape around the fretboard starting on the low E and A strings. These are all power chords. You can play power chords starting on higher strings but start out with the low two.

Thanks, but I already knew this. I want to move beyond the basic power chords, although I just watched a video which explained some of the power chords i didn't understand. The open power chords, such as E5 open, A5 open and D5 open. And the G5 open appears to be a G major open chord with a muted B.


Power chords are the building blocks of a lot of rock, metal and punk. Quite a few songs are written using ONLY power chords. They're a great place to start because they're so simple. Later, you can learn how to form major, minor, 7th and tons of other chords by using a similar barre shape on the fretboard and making slight changes.

Thanks, however I can already play open chords (minor/major) and barre's (major/minor E shape and major/minor A shape), and very simple power chords, but i want to learn the more complicated ones i see a lot in tabs.


There are literally thousands of scales and modes that can work for leads or melodies over power chords. Start my learning pentatonic scales and base your lead around the root notes of the power chords you are playing. Example; If you're playing G5, D5, C5 try using a G pentatonic scale.

Thanks for the advice on learning theory, but i'm already learning it . I know the minor scale, the major scale, and i know the vertical pattern for the minor pentatonic scale but not the interval pattern.


I just wrote a lot. Have fun!

Thanks
Last edited by robinlint at Sep 1, 2009,
#12
Power chords sound best with distortion, so a lot of the ballad-y songs most likely wont use them, since when using a cleaner tone, more complex chords can be used without muddying up the sound...
#13
Quote by robinlint
What are some good sonata arctica or metallica (the ballad-y songs such as nothing else mattters, but one with power chords) or iron maiden songs to start off with power chords?


Um... by the sounds of it, nearly every maiden song. hahaha

learn the trooper, thats a good start.

I'm glad we've helped you.

If i get a chance to type all that stuff again and I actually feel like doing it at the time I will haha. But pretty much everyone else has covered the same things I touched on each in their own ways.

Learning the interval patterns are not hard at all.
I'll give you a rough scetch of what they would look like using only the maj intervals

Hopefully this comes out looking ok



e|---|-7-|-8-|---|---|---|
B|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
G|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|
D|---|-6-|---|-7-|-8-|---|
A|---|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
E|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|

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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 1, 2009,
#14
ok so my internet at work is still being retarded and wont let me edit my above post without freezing up so I'll fix it when I get home. (edit: fixed! boy being home and doing this crap so much nicer on my computer)

But basically what I showed you is the interval pattern for all the major intervals of a scale. This can go anywhere on the fretboard.
1 = your root note
2 = major second away from your root
3 = major third away from your root
4 = perfect fourth from root
5 = perfect fifth from root
6 = major sixth from root
7 = major seventh from root
8 = the octave of the root (which is interchangable with the 1 basically)


and if you'll notice... that also forms the major scale! neato

Now with that you can make the minor scale by flatting (moving down 1 fret towards the neck) the 3 and the 7 of the major scale (making the 3 a minor third and the 7 a minor seventh)

to make a dominant scale you would only flat the 7

to make a half diminished scale you would flat the 3, 5 and 7.

All of these can be moved all around the fret board.

Those are just examples using the 6th string as the root note. They change when you move down to the root on the 5th string but not by much. See if you can figure out where the change is yourself using those patterns.

Also see if you can extend the pattern outside the box seeing as the order of notes is the same regardless.

hope that helps
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 1, 2009,
#15
and for ****s and giggles because I'm bored and trying to kill time till i get out of work

heres the formula for some cool chords you can form that aren't power chords. All of them are 7th chords

Maj 7th: 1, 3, 5, 7
Min 7th: 1, b3, 5, b7
Dom 7th: 1, 3, 5, b7
Min7b5 (aka half diminished): 1, b3, b5, b7

b = flat

just use the interval chart i made you and make some chords!


Edit (just got home): Still bored so I'll explain how you can use the intervals to make arpeggios!

Basically an arpeggio if you dont know, is a scale that spells out the name of a cord. What I mean by that is, the scale only contains the notes that make up the chord. Each note is played individually rather then together.

Lets take A major 7 for example. A maj 7 contains the 1, 3, 5, and 7 intervals of the A major scale. (A - C# - E - G#). Now if you look at that interval chart that I made you and you decide only to play the 1, 3, 5, 7 notes in a scale like pattern you'd be playing an A maj 7th arpeggio. Now once you extend the range of that chart either on paper or in your head, you'll notice those intervals are always relatively close together. That means you can play those 1 3 5 and 7s from the major scale pretty much anywhere on the neck.

Its the same thing regardless of what key your in. the patterns will always repeat.
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 1, 2009,
#16
Quote by robinlint
So that would be a 4th chord. Well, it sounds nice to me.
Almost. Not a 4th chord - just a 4th. As there are only 2 notes its termed an interval, or a diad, or a double stop, rather than a chord. Chords have 3 notes - power chords are really diads, but as they are formed by taking a normal chord and missing out the 3rd they get away with calling themselves chords

You can make diads out of pretty much any interval, although some of them willl sound pretty dissonant - might be worth you having a play with some. They are good fun with a pedal tone - so you can play about with diads from a scale and the pedal tone keeps the root solid.
#17
Quote by Dragonis
(edit: fixed! boy being home and doing this crap so much nicer on my computer)




But basically what I showed you is the interval pattern for all the major intervals of a scale. This can go anywhere on the fretboard.
1 = your root note
2 = major second away from your root
3 = major third away from your root
4 = perfect fourth from root
5 = perfect fifth from root
6 = major sixth from root
7 = major seventh from root
8 = the octave of the root (which is interchangable with the 1 basically)

Ah, yes. I've learnt them when I was reading The Crusade, but I still don't know how to use them except for naming the intervals in chords and creating harmonies.


and if you'll notice... that also forms the major scale! neato

The intervals you describe form a chromatic scale, am i right?


Now with that you can make the minor scale by flatting (moving down 1 fret towards the neck) the 3 and the 7 of the major scale (making the 3 a minor third and the 7 a minor seventh)

Awesome, i didn't know this. I thought to get the minor scale you would flat the 3rd, but it seems that's only with chords. So, to get a minor scale from a major scale, flat the 3rd and 7th? Thanks a bunch.
I can play the minor scale vertically and horizontally, but I don't have the major scale quite grasped like that yet. And I only know the VERTICAL -->PATTERNS<-- for the minor pentatonic scale, not the interval patterns, or the notes they contain (I'm talking about RWWHWWWH for the major scale for example)



to make a dominant scale you would only flat the 7

Awesome.


to make a half diminished scale you would flat the 3, 5 and 7.

Awesome, thanks


All of these can be moved all around the fret board.




Those are just examples using the 6th string as the root note. They change when you move down to the root on the 5th string but not by much. See if you can figure out where the change is yourself using those patterns.

I figured it out with the minor scale, so.. :P


Also see if you can extend the pattern outside the box seeing as the order of notes is the same regardless.

Yep, I do that by learning the interval pattern of the scale and playing around with creating horizontal scales on one string.


hope that helps

It did a bunch
#18
Quote by Dragonis
The third example you gave isnt a 5th chord (power chord). It contains the 1 and 4 of the notes in that scale. Which are G and C in this case.


At the risk of complicating things unnecessarily, the third example could be viewed as an inversion of a C5 (a C5/G if you like), if the rest of the band is playing something based around the C rather than the G. I'm not sure if this would be considered a first- or second-inversion given that there's no third at all, or if the term inversion is strictly applied only to triads (anyone have any insight here?).
#19
The third is indeed a power chord.

E
B
G
D 5 fifth
A 3 root
E

E
B
G
D
A 3 root
E 3 fifth one octave down
ERROR 0x45: Signature not found
#20
The intervals I described formed the major scale. not a cromatic scale. just to clarify that for you.

its just one position you can play the major scale in. But the intervals are the same regardless of what position you play it in.
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 2, 2009,
#21
Quote by HeliuM

EDIT: yeah the last example you used isn't a powerchord, it's a perfect 4th...

or a C5 2nd inversion (I dont think it matters whether it has a third or not, but that's MT stuff)

edit:whoops didn't read thread

Anyway, one of the best things you can do to help your playing and improvising is pick a key, and then pick a root note anywhere on the fretboard and play all the perfect fifths around it. Then you can try play all the minor and major thirds around the root notes and then the 7ths and all the other intervals.

Doing this will help you quickly identify the intervals in scales, chords etc as long as you know the root note. Then you can learn the positions of all the other notes/intervals around a 5th, 3rd etc and before you know it, you will know all the relationships between all the notes/intervals and be able to play over anything, make chords up as you go, alter your chords with other notes and make melodies etc.

I know you were more looking for different types of power chords but once you can pick out a root or 5th and know the location of all the 5th's and root notes around it, then you can play power chords wherever you like in any key.
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Last edited by Deep*Kick at Sep 2, 2009,
#22
Quote by Dragonis
oNow with that you can make the minor scale by flatting (moving down 1 fret towards the neck) the 3 and the 7 of the major scale (making the 3 a minor third and the 7 a minor seventh)
To form a natural minor scale you'd flatten the 6th too.

Natural minor = R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R

I'm guessing either that was a typo or Dragonis just likes dorian mode
#23
Quote by zhilla
To form a natural minor scale you'd flatten the 6th too.

Natural minor = R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R

I'm guessing either that was a typo or Dragonis just likes dorian mode

Actually you dont need a flat 6 to make a minor scale, or a flat 7 especially. It's the minor third that really makes a scale minor. The example is jazz melodic minor.
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#24
Quote by Deep*Kick
Actually you dont need a flat 6 to make a minor scale, or a flat 7 especially. It's the minor third that really makes a scale minor. The example is jazz melodic minor.
True - but if TS is just getting his head around scale theory he's probably best off getting to grips with Major and natural minor to start with, as they are most closely related. He can learn all the other forms a lot easier once he's done that.
#25
Haha yeah sorry I'm just going off what I've been learning recently which happens to be all kinda jazzy stuff. I'm mostly dealing with lots of 7th chords and arpeggios and scales that go along with them so thats as far as my knowledge goes so far haha. But I'm learning and thats always a good thing.

Figure I might as well pass along some of the knowledge I've gained over the past few weeks.
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#26
I don't think any of these people really answered your original question. Besides normal power chords there are a few other variations that haven't been mentioned. First the inversion (already mentioned so i won't write the tab). Second, the Add7 power chord.
This adds the 7th degree of the major scale instead of the octave.
e
B
G
D 6
A 7
E 5

We also have the Add9 power chord. This adds the 9th degree of the major scale (ie. another way of saying the 2nd degree) instead of the octave.
e
B
G
D 9
A 7
E 5

There is also the Add6 power chord. It is just like the others, but replaces the octave with the 6th degree of the major scale.
e
B
G
D 4
A 7
E 5

This last one is my own personal creation (well I haven't seen it anywhere else so far). It is a combination of the inverted power chord and the Add6 (but a whole lot easier). It contains the 1, 4, and 6 of the major scale. Which technically does not make it a power chord I guess.
e
B
G
D 6
A 5
E 5

You can play around with those. They have a more jazzy sound to them. Although mine has the heaviest most suspended sound out of anything mentioned above (in case you're into metal, it can sound quite dramatic). Hope I was of help.
#28
Quote by drewfromutah
Would

A----3----
E----3----


Still be considered a power chord? Isn't it pretty much C5 in addition to a G chord?


It is an inverted power chord because the C is no longer the root. In fact the C is the 4th degree of the G major scale. Therefore it is what is known as a perfect fourth (ie. the 1st and 4th degrees). If you add the octave on the 5th fret of the D string it is an still an inverted power chord. I believe the perfect fourth and inverted power chord are the same thing.
#29
@CanvasDude

Correct me if I'm wrong but would those all just be triads and not powerchords.

My understanding is that a powerchord is not technically a chord because there are only 2 notes in its makeup. (seeing as even if it contains the octave its still only 2 notes) Power chords are more of an interval kind of thing.

Where as what you listed all have 3 notes which would make them a triad and not a powerchord.

Like i said correct me If I'm wrong, but thats the way I understand it to be
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#30
Quote by Deep*Kick
or a C5 2nd inversion (I dont think it matters whether it has a third or not, but that's MT stuff)

edit:whoops didn't read thread

Anyway, one of the best things you can do to help your playing and improvising is pick a key, and then pick a root note anywhere on the fretboard and play all the perfect fifths around it. Then you can try play all the minor and major thirds around the root notes and then the 7ths and all the other intervals.

Doing this will help you quickly identify the intervals in scales, chords etc as long as you know the root note. Then you can learn the positions of all the other notes/intervals around a 5th, 3rd etc and before you know it, you will know all the relationships between all the notes/intervals and be able to play over anything, make chords up as you go, alter your chords with other notes and make melodies etc.

I know you were more looking for different types of power chords but once you can pick out a root or 5th and know the location of all the 5th's and root notes around it, then you can play power chords wherever you like in any key.

Steven Seagull, please read this and join the discussion, you have given me very helpful theory advice loads of times before, so please help me out with this too

Wow, this advice is even better than an answer to the question I asked. Thanks a lot! I have yet to try it out, though. I've just been at my guitar teacher, and we've discussed a lot. I want to discuss intervals with you, so let me tell you how much music theory I know:
- I know almost all the notes on the fretboard, EXCEPT the D and G strings.
- I know the minor scale, including the tonality that defines the minor scale, the interval pattern (WHWWHWW), and the vertical scale pattern. This is my most used scale.
- I know the major scale, including the tonality that defines the major scale, the interval pattern (WWHWWWH), and the vertical scale pattern. I don't use this one as much
- I know the minor pentatonic scale, including the tonality that defines the minor pentatonic scale, i DON'T know the interval pattern, but i DO know the vertical scale pattern. This is my second most used scale.
- I know how to construct a Circle of Fifths, but i have not memorized completely the sharps and flats in each key.
- I know how to get a relative minor or major
- I know how to construct a triad
- I know how to make harmonies with octaves

But I don't understand intervals. I understand what they're used for (creating chords, making harmonies, etc), but I only know that it follows this pattern:

Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Diminished 5th
Perfect 5th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Minor 7th
Major 7th
Octave


Other than that, I know nothing about them, except how to create triads (by using the 1st, 3rd, and 5th, and to create a minor use a minor 3rd and to create a major use a major 3rd). Care to explain intervals to me? I realise i'm going off-topic here, but i'd really like to know this, and isn't this my thread? :P

And a few other questions.. I want to learn about chords like suspended chords, added 9th's and all that. How do intervals apply to these? And to power chords?
Also, I want to learn "exotic" scales. I mean the scales people like Marty Friedman, Ritchie Blackmore, Yngwie Malmsteen, and Luca Turilli use. The Harmonic Minor, the Gypsy Scale, Hungarian Minor, and the Melodic Minor (and i've read it sounds best when you ascend using a melodic minor and descend using a natural minor?). How do intervals apply to those scales, and where do I find information about them?
Last edited by robinlint at Sep 2, 2009,
#31
For intervals it might be worth starting off looking at the major scale in terms of intervals from the root rather than just steps

Your major scale is all major/perfect intervals:

R 2 3 4 5 6 7

or

Root
Major 2nd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Perfect 5th
Major 6th
Major 7th

There is no major or minor 4th or 5th - they are both perfect intervals - if you reduce the interval by half a step it becomes diminished, if you increase it by half a step it becomes augmented

If you look at that alongside your H/W step map of the major scale, you can quickly see how many steps there are to each interval too.

You should be able to find a lot of them on your guitar pretty quickly too - you already know what a perfect 5th is (power chord), you know what a perfect 4th is as thats what your lower 4 strings are tunes to...

Then compare it to the natural minor scale - you've flattened the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the major scale to get the natural minor, so you've got

R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

If you reduce a major interval by half a step it becomes minor

So that gives you

Root
Major 2nd
minor 3rd
Perfect 4th
Perfect 5th
minor 6th
minor 7th


You can create triads, so sus chords are simple - sus2 replaces the 3rd with the 2nd, sus4 replaces the 3rd with the 4th

So for C Major

C = C D E F G A B => C E G (R 3 5)

Csus2 = C D E F G A B => C D G (R 2 5)

Csus4 = C D E F G A B => C F G (R 4 5)
Last edited by zhilla at Sep 2, 2009,
#32
Quote by zhilla
For intervals it might be worth starting off looking at the major scale in terms of intervals from the root rather than just steps

Your major scale is all major/perfect intervals:

R 2 3 4 5 6 7

or

Root
Major 2nd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Perfect 5th
Major 6th
Major 7th

There is no major or minor 4th or 5th - they are both perfect intervals - if you reduce the interval by half a step it becomes diminished, if you increase it by half a step it becomes augmented

Okay, so a diminished 4th is a flattened 4th and an augmented 4th is a sharpened fourth. Same goes for fifth. Alright. And the rest of the intervals each have a minor and major? What about the 1st, though? Does that have a minor and major as well?

So (1?), 2, 3, 6, and 7 all have a minor and major, and thus go like this:
(Minor 1st
Major 1st)?
Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Perfect 5th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Minor 7th
Major 7th

Okay, so now I know what intervals there are.. I do not know the distances from the root note to those, or how to use these. Especially how to find out what intervals a scale has. I only know that these intervals exist, not the order in which they appear. Please, care to explain more?


If you look at that alongside your H/W step map of the major scale, you can quickly see how many steps there are to each interval too.

In the major scale, yes. But what's the use of knowing how many steps there are from one interval to the next?


You should be able to find a lot of them on your guitar pretty quickly too - you already know what a perfect 5th is (power chord), you know what a perfect 4th is as thats what your lower 4 strings are tunes to...

I know what a perfect 5th is, but that's because I learnt to construct triads. I have never used a 4th, though, and i don't get the relation between the lower 4 strings and the perfect 4th?


Then compare it to the natural minor scale - you've flattened the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the major scale to get the natural minor, so you've got

R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

If you reduce a major interval by half a step it becomes minor

So that gives you

Root
Major 2nd
minor 3rd
Perfect 4th
Perfect 5th
minor 6th
minor 7th

I get the part about lowering a major interval half a step to make it minor, but not how you got the major scale intervals or how I would know where on the fretboard these intervals are located. Are intervals a different way to name notes? This is seriously confusing.


You can create triads, so sus chords are simple - sus2 replaces the 3rd with the 2nd, sus4 replaces the 3rd with the 4th

So for C Major

C = C D E F G A B => C E G (R 3 5)

Csus2 = C D E F G A B => C D G (R 2 5)

Csus4 = C D E F G A B => C F G (R 4 5)

Thanks. But when you lower a 3rd don't you get a minor chord instead of a sus2 chord?
Last edited by robinlint at Sep 2, 2009,
#33
Quote by robinlint
Okay, so a diminished 4th is a flattened 4th and an augmented 4th is a sharpened fourth. Same goes for fifth. Alright. And the rest of the intervals each have a minor and major?
yup
Quote by robinlint
What about the 1st, though? Does that have a minor and major as well?
1st is your root - there isn't an interval of a 1st, as you're counting from the root - a 2nd is the interval from the root to the 2nd note, a 4th is the interval from the root to the 4th note

So if you put your WWHWWWH formula into it you get

R (W) 2 (W) 3 (H) 4 (W) 5 (W) 6 (W) 7 (H) R

Root to Major 2nd = W = 2 frets
Root to Major 3rd = W + W = 4 frets
Root to Perfect 4th = W + W + H = 5 frets etc
Quote by robinlint
In the major scale, yes. But what's the use of knowing how many steps there are from one interval to the next?
So you can find them/identify them on the neck, so you can look at a set of note names in a chord and identify what type of chord it is, so you can look at a run of notes and identify what scale it fits into...
Quote by robinlint
I know what a perfect 5th is, but that's because I learnt to construct triads. I have never used a 4th, though, and i don't get the relation between the lower 4 strings and the perfect 4th?
The interval from your open E to your open A is a perfect 4th. Same from your A string to your D string, and your D string to your G string. So if you fret a note on the A string and the same fret on the E string - thats a 4th. So take the 3rd fret - the G on your E string and the C on your A string. G->A->B->C is a perfect 4th. (Edit - and if you look at the G Major scale G A B C D E F# G you can see how it fits)
Quote by robinlint
Thanks. But when you lower a 3rd don't you get a minor chord instead of a sus2 chord?
If you lower the 3rd in a major chord you get a minor chord - take C Major, C E G - to make that minor you flatten the 3rd (E) to make it a minor 3rd - giving you C Eb G. To turn it into a sus2 you replace the 3rd with the 2nd from the same scale - so rather than lowering the E, you suspend it and replace it with a D.
Last edited by zhilla at Sep 2, 2009,
#34
Quote by zhilla
yup 1st is your root - there isn't an interval of a 1st, as you're counting from the root - a 2nd is the interval from the root to the 2nd note, a 4th is the interval from the root to the 4th note

Okay, thanks


So if you put your WWHWWWH formula into it you get

R (W) 2 (W) 3 (H) 4 (W) 5 (W) 6 (W) 7 (H) R

Root to Major 2nd = W = 2 frets
Root to Major 3rd = W + W = 4 frets
Root to Perfect 4th = W + W + H = 5 frets etc

Okay. So intervals aren't tied to the chromatic scale, but to whatever scale you're using? I've learnt this specific pattern from The Crusade:

Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Diminished 5th
Perfect 5th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Minor 7th
Major 7th
Octave

That one's tied to the chromatic scale.. How would I find out the intervals for each scale?


So you can find them/identify them on the neck, so you can look at a set of note names in a chord and identify what type of chord it is, so you can look at a run of notes and identify what scale it fits into...

That sounds really useful, but i still have no idea how to use those intervals, or how to even find out the intervals in a scale.


The interval from your open E to your open A is a perfect 4th. Same from your A string to your D string, and your D string to your G string. So if you fret a note on the A string and the same fret on the E string - thats a 4th. So take the 3rd fret - the G on your E string and the C on your A string. G->A->B->C is a perfect 4th.

So the intervals relate to the musical alphabet? Really, this is getting quite confusing. I know the names of the intervals, but not what notes they refer to.


If you lower the 3rd in a major chord you get a minor chord - take C Major, C E G - to make that minor you flatten the 3rd (E) to make it a minor 3rd - giving you C Eb G. To turn it into a sus2 you replace the 3rd with the 2nd from the same scale - so rather than lowering the E, you suspend it and replace it with a D.

Ah, i get it. Thanks . Suspending is lowering a note one letter in the musical alphabet? (Or, raising it one letter in the musical alphabet)
Last edited by robinlint at Sep 2, 2009,
#35
zhilla is covering this pretty well, but i'm going to try to explain exactly what an interval is and how it relates to a scale in the simplest terms possible.

an interval is simply the distace between two notes.

If we start with A it would look like this

A = Root
A# = Minor 2nd
B = Major 2nd
C = Minor 3rd
C# = Major 3rd
D = Perfect 4th
D# = Diminished 5th
E = Perfect 5th
F = Minor 6th
F# = Major 6th
G = Minor 7th
G# = Major 7th
A = Octave


My interval chart

e|---|-7-|-8-|---|---|---|
B|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
G|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|
D|---|-6-|---|-7-|-8-|---|
A|---|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
E|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|



Now here are the intervals for the major scale

each number is a maj interval

so 2 = major second, 3 = major third etc etc etc.

Formula for forming major scale:
R-W-W-H-W-W-W-H

Gives us these intervals (same as my chart)
R-M2-M3-P4-P5-M6-M7-R

r = root
m = major
p = perfect

or simply going by the chart

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8

The interval patter is the same regardless of what key you are in. So if you choose to start on the 6th string 7th fret and played the above chart ^ you would be playing the B major scale. If you played it on the 5th fret you'd be playing the A major scale. etc etc etc.

Then you can use the other formulas to figure out other scales based around that. chart
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 2, 2009,
#36
Quote by Dragonis
zhilla is covering this pretty well, but i'm going to try to explain exactly what an interval is and how it relates to a scale in the simplest terms possible.

an interval is simply the distace between two notes.

If we start with A it would look like this

A = Root
A# = Minor 2nd
B = Major 2nd
C = Minor 3rd
C# = Major 3rd
D = Perfect 4th
D# = Diminished 5th
E = Perfect 5th
F = Minor 6th
F# = Major 6th
G = Minor 7th
G# = Major 7th
A = Octave



e|---|-7-|-8-|---|---|---|
B|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
G|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|
D|---|-6-|---|-7-|-8-|---|
A|---|-3-|-4-|---|-5-|---|
E|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|



Now here are the intervals for the major scale

each number is a maj interval

so 2 = major second, 3 = major third etc etc etc.

Formula for forming major scale:
R-W-W-H-W-W-W-H

Gives us these intervals (same as my chart)
R-M2-M3-P4-P5-M6-M7-R

m = major
p = perfect

or simply going by the chart

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8

Thanks, i understand this a lot better. So a major scale has only major intervals and a perfect 4th and 5th, although in the same order as i've learnt from The Crusade (and any interval list is sorted in that order).
But once you know the intervals of a major scale, then what? How does this apply to the minor scales? (Natural, Harmonic, Melodic, Hungarian).
I know how to build a triad. You take the 1st, 3rd, and 5th note of a scale. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 refers to the count of the note in the scale. The major scale has the intervals R M2 M3 P4 P5 M6 M7, and so the triad would be more accurately described as 1 M3 P5? The 1st is the same as the root, so the root never is major/minor?
#37
major or minor chords are determined by whether the 3rd is major or minor.

You can use intervals to build chords and scales and all that good stuff.

on the first page of this thread one of my posts has the formula to create arpeggio scales using the major scale formula with intervals.

Basically as an Idea

Major scale = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
Minor scale = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8(1)
^thats just one of the minor scales I forget which one exactly so someone please clarify that

etc etc etc. The formulas are all over the first page of this post I believe if not you can find them here on UG. I dont know all by heart and I'm actually swamped at work right now so I cant go into full detail thats why my posts are getting shorter and shorter haha.

When I get home I'll help out some more if I can
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Last edited by Dragonis at Sep 2, 2009,
#38
Quote by Dragonis
major or minor chords are determined by whether the 3rd is major or minor.

Alright, but how do you see if a note is a minor or major interval? And which interval it is?


You can use intervals to build chords and scales and all that good stuff.

That's why I want to learn it, because I want to learn scales other than the major scale and the natural minor scale. (And how to construct chords like suspended chords and so on)


on the first page of this thread one of my posts has the formula to create arpeggio scales using the major scale formula with intervals.

Found it, thanks .


Basically as an Idea

Major scale = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
Minor scale = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8(1)

What you've typed out there is different from the intervals in the list... This is one of the things that confuse me. There is no minor or major to be found here, this is just every note in the major scale labeled with a number, and a b where it is to be flattened and an # where it is to be sharpened. I understand how to use those formulas, but isn't this something different than intervals?


etc etc etc. The formulas are all over the first page of this post I believe if not you can find them here on UG. I dont know all by heart and I'm actually swamped at work right now so I cant go into full detail thats why my posts are getting shorter and shorter haha.

Thanks . I'll go search for these formulas, then . By the way, thank you for taking the time to answer my posts while you're at work.


When I get home I'll help out some more if I can

Thanks
#39
Quote by Dragonis
Basically as an Idea

Major scale = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
Minor scale = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8(1)
^thats just one of the minor scales I forget which one exactly so someone please clarify that
Dorian

Natural minor is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

@robinlint - the 'b' sign shows how you amend the major scale to form it, so a b3 is a minor 3rd, as it flattens the major 3rd, a b5 would be a diminished 5th as it flattens the perfect 5th by a semitone

conversely, #4 would raise the perfect 4th from the major scale to an augmented 4th
#40
This thread belongs in the archives
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