#1
I'm sick and tired of hearing that bloody neckjoint discussion over and over again. It has to stop, because it's bloody irrelevant. I copied this from a 'recommand me a shred guitar' -topic, because i didn't want to type it twice:

Oh yeah, on the "production x method has more sustain than production y method":
SUSTAIN IS OVERRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody plays notes that are longer than 20 seconds, and from the moment that you use ANY overdrive, you will NOT notice any difference between neckthru and bolt on.
Why going on and on about the sustain difference between neckjoints, when type of neck wood, fretboard wood, body wood, pickups and bridge are like 100 times more influencial than the bloody neckjoint?

Hell, let me tell you something:

*newsflash*
FLOYD ROSES KILL SUSTAIN!!!

Everybody, quick!! get rid of your floyds!!!!
I have pitty for those people who claim they chose a bolt on guitar for the better sustain, and proudly show their RG with a floating trem
Jesus christ people, think for once in a while. You get a bolt on because you:
- dont mind having a heel and choose bolt on because it's cheaper
- find a heel more comfortable then no heal
And you buy a neckthru because:
- you hate neck heels
- you like the superior upper fret access.

Now quit ALL the sustian BULL SH!T!!
You are only putting unnecessary thoughts in peoples mind that really don't matter. This is a result of smartasses that find it more interesting to know every pointless detail about guitars and post this on forums, making them feel smart and stuff, than playing guitar.
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#2
Nice rant? And a tl:dr would be appreciated.
Last edited by Toolfan11 at Sep 1, 2009,
#3
You hated all the sustain threads and discussions...so you made another one.
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#5
Quote by leftyace
You hated all the sustain threads and discussions...so you made another one.


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#6
Thank you
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#7
my floyd has pretty awesome sustain..

way to make a backwards thread btw. You hate the topic... so you make a thread dedicated to the topic.
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You just wasted your time.
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#10
I would also like to add that quality wood used in guitars is also overrated, especially with metal guitars. You simply cannot tell the difference when you are using high gain. Also, tube amps are overrated. You can get pretty much the exact same tone as a good tube amp with something like a Line 6 POD.
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#11
Quote by Dragonis
my floyd has pretty awesome sustain..

way to make a backwards thread btw. You hate the topic... so you make a thread dedicated to the topic.

1. Extacly: you are happy with the sustain on your floyd equipped guitar, so why would you bother on the whole neckjoint issue? There is no friggin neckjoint sustain issue!! That's my whole point...

2. Hmm, you got a point there. I just wanted to make people aware of the pointlessness of this neckjoint thing. I want to inform people that they don't have to worry as much as the internet wants them to be, because they don't have to worry about it in the first place. Or they start worrying about the wrong stuff. You get what i mean?
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Last edited by LP_CL at Sep 1, 2009,
#12
Quote by falconthefirst
I would also like to add that quality wood used in guitars is also overrated, especially with metal guitars. You simply cannot tell the difference when you are using high gain. Also, tube amps are overrated. You can get pretty much the exact same tone as a good tube amp with something like a Line 6 POD.

Lol man, let's not push it!

Quote by Capt_Clarkson
hmm... interesting...

*reported*
Reported for what? Being right? Stop wasting moderators their time man, they got better things to do. You should be reported for being a false reporter.
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Last edited by LP_CL at Sep 1, 2009,
#13
Cool rant bro.
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#14
The difference between a good neckthru, a good bolt on, and a good set neck sustainwise is basically zero. In other words, you can't hear the difference.
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#15
Can't say much other than that you're correct. Neck joints tell you a lot about a guitar's attack and tonality, but very little about the sustain.
#16
Nice of you to gloss over the huge impact on tone that neck joints have.
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#17
Quote by MrFlibble
Nice of you to gloss over the huge impact on tone that neck joints have.

Yeah yeah, i hear you, but I was mainly focussing on the wrong-ness of thinking that neckjoints influence sustain and the whole discussion about it. It should stop. People should know what matters, not what doesn't. And regarding sustain, neckjoints do not matter.
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#18
I strongly disagree

While its true that a bolt-on, neck-thru, and set neck guitar can each have great sustain, the argument that sustain is overrated gives me the impression that you don't have a good ear for tone. Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it. ^All that being said, I could be wrong about you. You could have perfect ears and have outstanding tone, but to each his own.

tl;dr: Electronics aside, sustain and resonance have a direct influence on the natural tone and harmonics of a guitar.
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#19
even though i agree with your rant, you could of turned this into a informative sticky thread, cos new members will join this site and this thread won`t be in the 1st 5 pages in a months time...

or maybe it belongs in the customisation and building forum idk

how many times do we see, i changed my string guage now the trems not level or what strings do you reccommend threads

do what i do, read the title if you don`t want to answer it then refuse the compulsion to do so, a TS will get his answer at some point or type 1 simple word "searchbar"
#21
Quote by USAPeavey
I strongly disagree

While its true that a bolt-on, neck-thru, and set neck guitar can each have great sustain, the argument that sustain is overrated gives me the impression that you don't have a good ear for tone. Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it. ^All that being said, I could be wrong about you. You could have perfect ears and have outstanding tone, but to each his own.

tl;dr: Electronics aside, sustain and resonance have a direct influence on the natural tone and harmonics of a guitar.

I think you kinda misunderstood me. I totally agree with what you said here. But you are referring to the wood/build quality. I never said something about that. I said that some people worry to much that they wouldn't have ENOUGH sustain, because their guitar has a X type of neckjoint, or a floyd rose, or something else. For those cases: i say forget sustain, it's overrated.
But i myself also always test unplugged, knocking on the wood, etc etc. I personally am one of those people that is really difficult if it comes the the quality of the used woods.
I should have been more clear on that issue.
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#22
Quote by KillahSquirrel
Did you just copy paste your original post from your other post in that shred thread?

maybe you could read?
Quote by LP_CL
I copied this from a 'recommand me a shred guitar' -topic, because i didn't want to type it twice:
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#23
Quote by USAPeavey
I strongly disagree

While its true that a bolt-on, neck-thru, and set neck guitar can each have great sustain, the argument that sustain is overrated gives me the impression that you don't have a good ear for tone. Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it. ^All that being said, I could be wrong about you. You could have perfect ears and have outstanding tone, but to each his own.

tl;dr: Electronics aside, sustain and resonance have a direct influence on the natural tone and harmonics of a guitar.

Any luthier will tell you that electric guitars are not meant to resonate - they do to some extent and it does shape the tone, but strong resonance does in no way imply good tone when playing plugged in.
I agree though that what you hear when playing unplugged gives you a rough idea of what it'll sound like plugged in, but the question is what frequencies are present, not how strong they are.
By the way, strong resonance and a loud acoustic tone means that the energy which makes the strings vibrate is transformed into "acoustic energy" (aka soundwaves) quickly compared to an instrument with less resonance, which leads to comparatively little sustain. Hence, lots of resonance leads to decreased sustain.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Sep 1, 2009,
#24
I seriously dont think its got to do much with sound.. its more of a comfort and visual preferance
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#25
maybe you could read?

I didn't feel the need to read it when I just read that same post in a different thread.
Which, by the way, was completely irrelevent.
#26
Quote by LP_CL
Yeah yeah, i hear you, but I was mainly focussing on the wrong-ness of thinking that neckjoints influence sustain and the whole discussion about it. It should stop. People should know what matters, not what doesn't. And regarding sustain, neckjoints do not matter.
Well I would completely disagree with that, neck joint makes almost as much of a difference to sustain as the bridge does.

As far as "sustain doesn't really matter" goes, that's something entirely down to each player's style.
You're also acting as if every guitar is guaranteed to hold a note 40+ seconds so who cares if a particular neck joint gives you another 3; this is quite wrong. There are lots of poorly made guitars out there with cheap and poorly made neck-through construction that will struggle to hold a note for more than four seconds, and that is very impractical for a lot of players.
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#27
I have to disagree completely. Not only that, why would you make a ranting thread about how you hate threads like this?
Perhaps I want to play without distortion? maybe I dont play through my amp the whole time, maybe Im trying to get as much sustain as i possibly(and i mean possibly) can, or maybe im just a friendly guitar nooblet who is asking a simple question on a guitar forum(where your question would get answered instead of bickered about )
Said by USAPeavey:
"Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it."
This man knows what hes talking about. I do the same thing when purchasing a guitar. Not only that, but it doesnt even have to be so complex as you make it out to be: My Les paul has more sustain that my strat, maybe its because I have a set neck? its probably only have like 2 seconds more, but that can definately make a difference.
Also, change you sig; its a little too "br00tal."
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Last edited by Saturated Fat at Sep 1, 2009,
#28
Quote by MrFlibble
Well I would completely disagree with that, neck joint makes almost as much of a difference to sustain as the bridge does.
Lol, not true at all.
Quote by MrFlibble

As far as "sustain doesn't really matter" goes, that's something entirely down to each player's style.
True, but how many players actually absolutely need the best sustain ever? Most guitars have sustain enough not to worry about it. Even floyd equipped guitars sustain long enough for most players, and floyds EAT sustain.
Quote by MrFlibble

You're also acting as if every guitar is guaranteed to hold a note 40+ seconds so who cares if a particular neck joint gives you another 3; this is quite wrong. There are lots of poorly made guitars out there with cheap and poorly made neck-through construction that will struggle to hold a note for more than four seconds, and that is very impractical for a lot of players.
So will a poorly made bolt on, so will a poorly made set neck. What's your point?
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#29
Hey, I'm the one who gets to make rants on subjects about EG that annoy me. I do have to agree with you though.
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#30
Quote by Saturated Fat

Perhaps I want to play without distortion?

Even then, the human ear is not capable to notice the difference in sustain. Measuring equipment are.
Quote by Saturated Fat
maybe I dont play through my amp the whole time,
Then get a acoustic, DUH. Electrics are MENT to be amplified, don't come here with an argument like that
Quote by Saturated Fat
maybe Im trying to get as much sustain as i possibly(and i mean possibly) can, or maybe im just a friendly guitar nooblet who is asking a simple question on a guitar forum(where your question would get answered instead of bickered about )
If you want to get as much sustain as possible, here is your answer: Yes, get a well made 5 bolt on neck joint fixed bridge guitar with a good sustaining neck/body wood. And guitar noobs probably don't even know what 'sustain' is.
Quote by Saturated Fat

Said by USAPeavey:
"Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it."
This man knows what hes talking about. I do the same thing when purchasing a guitar. Not only that, but it doesnt even have to be so complex as you make it out to be: My Les paul has more sustain that my strat, maybe its because I have a set neck? its probably only have like 2 seconds more, but that can definately make a difference.

As I said, I do this stuff that USAPeavey said too. And who sais your LP sustains longer because of the neckjoint? Other bridge (strat has a TREMOLO!!!!) other body wood, other neck wood, other pickups (LP has HUMBUCKERS!!!!) Offcourse your LP has more sustain...
Quote by Saturated Fat

Also, change you sig; its a little too "br00tal."

My sig isn't br00tal, it's just headbanging, and no, i wont change it, because my gear rocks. In fact, just to get on your nerves, i'm going to add one!
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Last edited by LP_CL at Sep 1, 2009,
#31
I wasstarting to reply to everything in detail, but then I read this:
Quote by LP_CL
Even then, the human ear is not capable to notice the difference in sustain. Measuring equipment are.
... And you completely shot your argument in the foot, proved how little you know and how inexperienced you are on the subject. So I shan't bother.
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#32
Quote by USAPeavey
I strongly disagree

While its true that a bolt-on, neck-thru, and set neck guitar can each have great sustain, the argument that sustain is overrated gives me the impression that you don't have a good ear for tone. Sustain and resonance go hand in hand when determining a guitars tonal qualities, and a guitar with less of either one will have less natural harmonic complexity, pickups and electronics aside. The very first thing I do when purchasing an electric guitar is I spend about 10 minutes playing it unplugged, and if it does not meet certain standards for sustain and resonance, I don't even think about purchasing it. ^All that being said, I could be wrong about you. You could have perfect ears and have outstanding tone, but to each his own.

tl;dr: Electronics aside, sustain and resonance have a direct influence on the natural tone and harmonics of a guitar.


Quote for being oh so right.

Seirously. Sustain really does exists. You don't seem to have a use for it since you seem to play a lot of metal. Maybe that's why you didn't develop an ear for it. But people really uses it a lot, if you listen to blues and old rock.

And since you said a ''line 6 POD or something'' could easily reproduce the sound of a gool old tube amp, you lost a lot of credibility.
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