#1
I was watching some guy doing a cover on the Comfortably Numb 2nd solo and I read one of the comments that said "The G string will never tune correctly on a guitar with that scale length[24 3/4"]." It sounded like he was pulling some crap out of his ass but is this true?
#2
Quote by FCurimao
I was watching some guy doing a cover on the Comfortably Numb 2nd solo and I read one of the comments that said "The G string will never tune correctly on a guitar with that scale length[24 3/4"]." It sounded like he was pulling some crap out of his ass but is this true?

He may have meant "can't be properly intonated" which has a great deal with tuning, but I could see that as a possibility.
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#3
Actually any standard guitar will never have perfect intonation which is probably what he was referring to, as grayfox said.

There is a company, True Temperament, that makes guitar necks with frets that are specialized to allow perfect intonation but the necks start at about €575 i think.
#4
Quote by Pac_man0123
Actually any standard guitar will never have perfect intonation which is probably what he was referring to, as grayfox said.

There is a company, True Temperament, that makes guitar necks with frets that are specialized to allow perfect intonation but the necks start at about €575 i think.

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#5
^ I like that, chase the wind is a good way to put it. Scale length has nothing to do with it but I find that it is more pronounced to the average ear on the G-string. I don't know if it really helps or not maybe Mr. Collins can offer some wisdom but I find using a wound 3rd string makes it less noticeable. Maybe its just an illusion.
#6
If he is refering to tuning to another string I can sort of understand what he was saying. If you are tuning your G string against a fretted D string at the fifth fret you can end up tuning it a bit sharp when compared to using an electronic tuner.
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#7
A compensated nut will put the G in tune.




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#8
Quote by David Collins
The G string is the bastard child on the guitar for a number of reasons. First and foremost is that it is so often forced to play the role of the major or minor third to either the string above or below it. Thirds always have been, and always will be a problem, whether you're playing guitar, banjo, piano, accordion - anything with predetermined notes.

Second is that it's really too low a note for an ideal plain steel string, and too high of one for a wound. Either way you go, it's forced in to more of a compromise than the other strings. With plain strings on most electric gauges, it's just too loose a tension for too thick a string. It's overtones are more likely to be inconsistent with the fundamental, and it reacts more dramatically to the increased tension as you bend it down to the fret. Of course if you shorten the scale a little bit, it becomes a little bit more sensitive to these issues (though just a little bit). Wound 3rds certainly suffer these symptoms far less than plain steels, but if you're playing with .009"s or .010"s, the core of a wound third would just have to be too small to be practical if you want to keep the tension similar across the strings.

There may also be some issues related to Gibson fret spacing that were at the source of the original claim you heard. Gibson fret spacing is a bit different from normal (the reason why a Gibson 24_3/4" scale is actually about 3/16" shorter than other makers' 24_3/4" scales). If the original source of this claim plays a Gibson, he may be placing the fault on the scale length, while it may actually be more appropriately placed on Gibson's slightly peculiar fret spacing.

In any case, the does G string come burdened with more issues than others, but it can be dealt with. What I feel cannot be overemphasized, is the responsibility of the player to learn how to intonate as they play. The guitar does not have rigidly pre-determined notes as you find on a piano. Frets are a guide, and a suggestion, but you can flatten or sharpen most notes a good amount depending on where and how you place pressure on the string. Slide up toward the fret, and you loosen the speaking length a bit and can flatten most notes by a few cents (especially on upper frets). Push a little harder or pull back toward the nut, and it's easy to sharpen. The trick is in learning how to control this intentionally. Some players seem to do this instinctively, without even being consciously aware of it, while others have to work at intentionally training their muscle memory to stretch certain chord shapes in to tune.

This kind of thing was traditionally taught and emphasized in classical training, though most players today remain quite unaware of just how much responsibility and control they have over intonation in the context of playing. To loosely quote Hubert Sumlin, "I never tune my guitar, I just play it in tune".



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#9
That was magnificent, it really was

I always wondered why the G seemed to be a bad string tuneing wise...
#10
Quote by David Collins


Before jumping up to buy one of those necks, take some time to study temperament and intonation. A quick study, and you'll perhaps come out seeing those as a great solution. A more thorough study and understanding of how it all works, and you're more likely to find a lot of holes in the idea, and recognize it as just another way to chase the wind.

Hence why i said they're specialized frets to allow perfect intonation, instead of treating them like the godsend to guitars.

That being said, the video with Steve Vai had me stumped because the JEM he had with a TT neck on it had massive sustain (and there was no sustainer pickup).
#12
Are you guys talking about the necks that have frets that aren't straight? Like the frets are somewhat crooked, and apparently allows all the strings to ring in perfect unison no matter where it is? I think Steve Vai uses them, and I'm not saying he's all knowing or whatever, but if he uses them surely they can't be terrible.
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#14
Whoa. Thanks for all the info. I didn't believe the guy at first because he's was just bashing the 24 3/4" scale and saying that Gibson were selling the wrong scale and such. I guess he was right.
#15
Quote by FCurimao
Whoa. Thanks for all the info. I didn't believe the guy at first because he's was just bashing the 24 3/4" scale and saying that Gibson were selling the wrong scale and such. I guess he was right.


no that guys is still an idiot. its not just gibson or just 24.75" scale guitars, or just the g string. thats actually the point of all of those posts up there/\.

do you honestly think gibson will still be one of the top manufactures, with many professional players if they sold "the wrong scale length?".
#16
Quote by Guitar2theface
Are you guys talking about the necks that have frets that aren't straight? Like the frets are somewhat crooked, and apparently allows all the strings to ring in perfect unison no matter where it is? I think Steve Vai uses them, and I'm not saying he's all knowing or whatever, but if he uses them surely they can't be terrible.

Yes, that's what i was referring to.

Since Steve apparently has perfect pitch i imagine the TT necks must help but as Dave said, while it's a good idea, as far as we know it's by no means an end-all to issues with intonation.
#17
Quote by grayfox1001
He may have meant "can't be properly intonated" which has a great deal with tuning, but I could see that as a possibility.


Probably this, I can't ever get my G string properly intonated on my SG.
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#18
Quote by David Collins
You have a bit too much faith in Gibson.

Using the word "wrong" may be a bit subjective, but I can tell you that Gibson electric guitars do not space their frets by the same logarithmic formula that ever other modern manufacturer uses (well, nearly every other modern maker). The difference results in a practically imperceptible degree of flattening in some of the middle frets, followed by an accelerated sharpening once you pass the 12th, though still relatively minor difference until you get up to the 17th range and beyond (all when measured relative to the industry standard everyone else follows, of course).



I'm actaully not a huge fan of gibsons, but there is no denying that they are one of the top manufacturers of guitars in terms of sales. and a lot of famous players do play them. I was mainly responding the "wrong scale length" comment. not saying that the gibson guitars are perfectly intonated machines
#20
Well Mr. Collins article now makes me understand why the G string slot is different on my compensated nut...and also why my G string would go out of tune on my other guitar so easily..
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