Page 1 of 2
#1
Let's discuss music with odd timings in them!
I will start:
Mission Impossible theme= 5/4!


Icarus The Owl is a band with mostly Odd time signatures in their songs:
http://www.myspace.com/icarustheowl
Why you should listen:

Icarus The Owl bridge the gap between being very technical and being a catchy pop/rock band. 90% percent of their CD is in an odd time signature, but average music listeners would assume it's their new favorite pop/rock sing-a-long. Icarus The Owl's music appeals to many demographics, because it's musically mature, yet accessible to people who listen for the hooks. The lead guitarist hardly uses a pick, because most of the riffs require two-handed tapping. Their debut CD features a wide array of songs, so there is a song for everyone.

RIYL: Thrice, Minus the bear, fans of melodic music with a technical edge.

Free CD Download: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KY0M9LOS
#3
*looks at name* *looks at join date* *looks at OP*

*shrugs*


excellent band though, i'm really liking it.
Quote by wonderflap
You had to put a penis option.......

The results are now nulled due to this being the pit.... The home of penis watch wearers.


Quote by TheChaz
Rust in peace invented food
he sure is one legit dude
don't let it get to your head

ಠ_ಠ
#4
What a gimmick!

Nobody cares how technically proficient yet subtle your band's music is. All they care about is if it sounds good.
#5
Quote by XxRustInPeacexX
*looks at name* *looks at join date* *looks at OP*

*shrugs*
Go to the profile and look at "All posts by ____." They're both the same exact post, one here, and one in the other thread that is exactly like this one.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#6
Quote by food1010
Go to the profile and look at "All posts by ____." They're both the same exact post, one here, and one in the other thread that is exactly like this one.


Yeah i know they are the same. My band uses a lot of odd time signatures, and so it's relevant in this thread i wanted to start. It is also relevant in the band promo page! You seem offended by this haha. Anyways, back to musical meters! Hey ya by outkast is in 11! um... the intro to "Trust" by thrice is in 5/4! Tom Sawyer by Rush has some 7/8! Check out the band "Damiera" so fun to count through as well as gorgeous leads!
#7
Quote by Eastwinn
What a gimmick!

Nobody cares how technically proficient yet subtle your band's music is. All they care about is if it sounds good.
I party agree with you! "nobody" is harsh to say. A LOT of people care how technical your band is. Why do people listen to Dragonforce? oh cause they shred. I am in total agreeance that whatever sounds good, sounds good! My favorite band is blink 182...soooo i mean you can kinda learn their albums in an hour. As far as my band goes, I love to two handed tap, I feel like it's percussive and beautiful. 4/4 is great, but expanding the musical meter into more complex rhythms can open up endless rhythmic possibilities!
#8
The closer for this year's show for my school's marching band starts in 4, then goes to 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, then back to 4, then into 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then4, then 3, then 4, then 3, and ends in 4.

Does that count?
I think it's time for a change.



Sig v5.0 (approximate)
#9
Quote by Icarustheowl
Yeah i know they are the same. My band uses a lot of odd time signatures, and so it's relevant in this thread i wanted to start. It is also relevant in the band promo page! You seem offended by this haha.
Haha, not at all, I just felt like going along with the other guy and being very cynical.

Come to think of it, you really didn't need to make another whole thread about this, seeing as the other thread you posted in has the same exact topic.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Sep 5, 2009,
#10
Quote by food1010
Haha, not at all, I just felt like going along with the other guy and being very cynical.

Come to think of it, you really didn't need to make another whole thread about this, seeing as the other thread you posted in has the same exact topic.

ha i dunno... I am a forum Newb! I just felt like dicussing it in the musicians forum thing! 15 Step by Radiohead= 5/4!
#11
Quote by §ArmyofAngels§
The closer for this year's show for my school's marching band starts in 4, then goes to 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, then back to 4, then into 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then4, then 3, then 4, then 3, and ends in 4.

Does that count?

that's pretty rad! haha it COUNTS(pun intended) Did some of the students get lost or was it fairly natural for them?
#12
Quote by Icarustheowl
that's pretty rad! haha it COUNTS(pun intended) Did some of the students get lost or was it fairly natural for them?

Haha, we haven't gone over it in the drill yet, and it's interesting.

It's Chorale and Toccata by Jack Stamp.
I think it's time for a change.



Sig v5.0 (approximate)
#13
Quote by Icarustheowl
ha i dunno... I am a forum Newb! I just felt like dicussing it in the musicians forum thing! 15 Step by Radiohead= 5/4!
5/4 isn't that weird, in my opinion. It's like 4/4 with an extra beat. I know quite a few songs in 5/4.

Now, 7/8 and 5/8 are weird, in my opinion. In 7, it's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3... or 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 1 + 2 +... I think it's pretty strange to tap your foot every other beat, until the seventh beat, then it's only one beat per foot tap.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Sep 5, 2009,
#14
Quote by food1010
5/4 isn't that weird, in my opinion. It's like 4/4 with an extra beat. I know quite a few songs in 5/4.

Now, 7/8 and 5/8 are weird, in my opinion. In 7, it's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3... or 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 1 + 2 +... I think it's pretty strange to tap your foot every other beat, until the seventh beat, then it's only one beat per foot tap.

5/4 Isn't that weird I agree! My favorite meter is probably 13/16!
#15
Quote by §ArmyofAngels§
The closer for this year's show for my school's marching band starts in 4, then goes to 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, then back to 4, then into 3, then 5, then 4, then 3, then4, then 3, then 4, then 3, and ends in 4.

Does that count?

Marching in 3 and 5 must be strange. My band does a song that goes into 3 for two measures but we hold there. Idk how you'd march an odd number of beats because you'd end up on the wrong foot for the downbeat.
#16
Quote by Icarustheowl
5/4 Isn't that weird I agree! My favorite meter is probably 13/16!
Oh damn That's pretty crazy if you ask me.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#17
Quote by SKAtastic7770
Marching in 3 and 5 must be strange. My band does a song that goes into 3 for two measures but we hold there. Idk how you'd march an odd number of beats because you'd end up on the wrong foot for the downbeat.

Last year we did a song that was in 11. The director split it into 6 and 5, though. We did end up on the right foot a lot, but it didn't really stop us.

Our opener was also in 3, but the rest was in 4.

The moves made it easier, once you start thinking in counts instead of left foot every measure, it's not as hard.
I think it's time for a change.



Sig v5.0 (approximate)
#19
Quote by Icarustheowl
Hey ya by outkast is in 11!


No its not. It takes 22 beats before it repeats, but it definitely is not in 11. It is 3 bars of 4 followed by a bar of 2 and 2 more bars of 4. 11 implies a much different accenting pattern.
#20
Quote by isaac_bandits
No its not. It takes 22 beats before it repeats, but it definitely is not in 11. It is 3 bars of 4 followed by a bar of 2 and 2 more bars of 4. 11 implies a much different accenting pattern.

actually it does not. 11 can be broken up any way you'd like, as there is no implied accenting pattern. 3+3+3+2 or
4+4+3 or 4+3+4...etc. Also the BPM has to do whether it is 22 or 11. 22 is obviously divisible by 11. We disagree(although i am not arguing with you) on the bottom number. You see, you are saying rounds off at 22...which is true depending on how you're counting. I am counting twice as slow as you are. if the songs bpm is 70...and you are counting quarter notes, then that'd sound the same as if you are counting half notes if the BPM were to be 140.

So i could argue and say it's in 11/2...which is the same as 22/4. Mission impossible is techincally 3/8+3/8+4/8...which is 10 eighth notes. but, people just call it 5/4.
#22
Does anyone have any advice on writing riffs in more complex time signatures? Its something I have much trouble with, though I don't listen to much music with complex meters which I'm sure contributes to my problem.
#23
Listen to music with odd time. Don't try to force an odd-time riff, especially if you don't use odd time in natural ways. Forced odd time sounds obvious and weird - not in a good way, either.
#24
Quote by Icarustheowl
actually it does not. 11 can be broken up any way you'd like, as there is no implied accenting pattern. 3+3+3+2 or
4+4+3 or 4+3+4...etc. Also the BPM has to do whether it is 22 or 11. 22 is obviously divisible by 11. We disagree(although i am not arguing with you) on the bottom number. You see, you are saying rounds off at 22...which is true depending on how you're counting. I am counting twice as slow as you are. if the songs bpm is 70...and you are counting quarter notes, then that'd sound the same as if you are counting half notes if the BPM were to be 140.

So i could argue and say it's in 11/2...which is the same as 22/4. Mission impossible is techincally 3/8+3/8+4/8...which is 10 eighth notes. but, people just call it 5/4.


Why would you write the song in 11/2 or 22/4?

There are 6 bars before it repeats, and they are very clearly 2 bars of 4/4, followed by a bar of 2/4, and then 2 more bars of 4/4. Listen to the bass, which confirms this. There's no reason to combine all the bars in a song section into one, for the sake of saying its in an unconventional time signature.

Also, 11/2 and 22/4 are not the same thing. The pulses will be in different places, even when the bars have the same numbers of quarter notes.

And 11 generally is assumed to mean 11/8, which is a hybrid signature, implying 3+3+3+2 or 3+2+2+2+2 (or any variation on those with the 3s and 2s in different orders).
#25
Quote by SKAtastic7770
Does anyone have any advice on writing riffs in more complex time signatures? Its something I have much trouble with, though I don't listen to much music with complex meters which I'm sure contributes to my problem.

You should listen to music that is easy to digest in an odd meter. Thrice has a lot of that stuff. Also there is technique that i like to use for breaking up music in terms of 2's and 3's... it's called apple galloping. Apple= 2 and galloping= 3.
Say out loud and tap your leg to Apple Galloping over and over. that would be 5/4! try reversing it...galloping apple...3+2...different way of phrasing the 5. You can do this to build pretty much any meter! 7= apple apple galloping! and you can do faster timings by double how fast you are saying it... apple apple galloping twice as fast would a thing of 7/8. That has helped me a lot in the past. I usually write riffs that I think sound good, and then count them later!
hope that helped!
#26
Quote by SKAtastic7770
Does anyone have any advice on writing riffs in more complex time signatures? Its something I have much trouble with, though I don't listen to much music with complex meters which I'm sure contributes to my problem.


Learn to play music that's in other meters before writing your own. Don't write in an odd meter to be able to say you wrote in an odd meter.
#27
Quote by Icarustheowl
You should listen to music that is easy to digest in an odd meter. Thrice has a lot of that stuff. Also there is technique that i like to use for breaking up music in terms of 2's and 3's... it's called apple galloping. Apple= 2 and galloping= 3.
Say out loud and tap your leg to Apple Galloping over and over. that would be 5/4! try reversing it...galloping apple...3+2...different way of phrasing the 5. You can do this to build pretty much any meter! 7= apple apple galloping! and you can do faster timings by double how fast you are saying it... apple apple galloping twice as fast would a thing of 7/8. That has helped me a lot in the past. I usually write riffs that I think sound good, and then count them later!
hope that helped!

Thats a neat little trick. But wont that kind of limit where I might want to accent?
#28
Quote by isaac_bandits
Why would you write the song in 11/2 or 22/4?

There are 6 bars before it repeats, and they are very clearly 2 bars of 4/4, followed by a bar of 2/4, and then 2 more bars of 4/4. Listen to the bass, which confirms this. There's no reason to combine all the bars in a song section into one, for the sake of saying its in an unconventional time signature.

Also, 11/2 and 22/4 are not the same thing. The pulses will be in different places, even when the bars have the same numbers of quarter notes.

And 11 generally is assumed to mean 11/8, which is a hybrid signature, implying 3+3+3+2 or 3+2+2+2+2 (or any variation on those with the 3s and 2s in different orders).


11 is NOT assumed to be 11/8. I have written parts in 11/4, 11/8, and 11/16. all 11 parts. 11 implies the numerator and nothing else. And sure you can break up the meter any would like. the accents happen when you group the meter differently. You can dissect a meter so much as to go to the 32nd notes and start grouping them in different ways. I wrote a part in 23/16...the only short way of describing that part is 23/16. it's a 9/16 part followed by a 7/8 part...Sure that is a high number, but it's almost a 6/4 part...so it's easier to say it's a 23/16 part. listen to it...it's in the bridge of "running from lacuna" by my band http://www.myspace.com/icarustheowl
#29
Quote by SKAtastic7770
Thats a neat little trick. But wont that kind of limit where I might want to accent?

it's just an easy way to let you make different meters with groupings of 2's and 3's. You can accent wherever you'd like i suppose?
#30
Quote by Icarustheowl
11 is NOT assumed to be 11/8.
It is. Yes, there's an Athens in Georgia, but if you asked someone what he was doing for Spring Break and he responded, "I'm going to Athens!" wouldn't you assume that he was going to be in Greece? "Eleven" is assumed to be 11/8. I can't imagine there being a situation where 11/4 or 11/2 is the best meter to use; they're too long to have any meaning. (11/16 is a different story, but it's too uncommon to enter this discussion.) Would you ever write a piece in 32/4 just because the riff lasts eight measures?

By the way, a time signature is not a fraction.
#32
Quote by The4thHorsemen
am i the only one that considered this blatant advertising?


I did too, but then I decided, "Ah, what the hell."
#34
Quote by Icarustheowl
it's just an easy way to let you make different meters with groupings of 2's and 3's. You can accent wherever you'd like i suppose?


The thing is that all hybrid time signatures are based on groupings of either two or three. That is their "natural" pulse. If you want different accents, use a different time signature and/or write in accents.

Quote by Icarustheowl
11 is NOT assumed to be 11/8. I have written parts in 11/4, 11/8, and 11/16. all 11 parts. 11 implies the numerator and nothing else. And sure you can break up the meter any would like. the accents happen when you group the meter differently. You can dissect a meter so much as to go to the 32nd notes and start grouping them in different ways. I wrote a part in 23/16...the only short way of describing that part is 23/16. it's a 9/16 part followed by a 7/8 part...Sure that is a high number, but it's almost a 6/4 part...so it's easier to say it's a 23/16 part. listen to it...it's in the bridge of "running from lacuna" by my band http://www.myspace.com/icarustheowl


11 does imply 11/8. There's no need to write in 11/2 or 11/4, as you can always reduce the measures into multiple bars each with meaningful time signatures. It actually is fairly common to have two alternating time signatures for a considerable length of time (6 and 7 alternating in In The Presence of Enemies, where it wouldn't be right to call it 13, for example). It is ridiculous to think that you can just make any time signature whatever you want. Doing that results in music that is not standardized and thus very difficult to learn. Then we might as well put everything in one long bar, and forget all the useful information contained in the time signatures.
Last edited by isaac_bandits at Sep 6, 2009,
#35
I don't understand why you keep banging on about your bands odd meters like it's something no-one has done before? You have an entire blog on your myspace for the time sigs for all of the sections for your album.

What is the point of this ?

You don't see Dream Theater or other prog bands gloating at how complex their music is. It appears to be quite a gimmick.
#36
There is no point in writing complex music just to be complex.

And Hey Ya is two bars of 4/4 followed by a bar of 2/4.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#37
Quote by 7even
There is no point in writing complex music just to be complex.

And Hey Ya is two bars of 4/4 followed by a bar of 2/4.
Do you mean 3/4 instead of 2/4? There are definitely 11 beats in a series of measures, not 10.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#38
Quote by food1010
Do you mean 3/4 instead of 2/4? There are definitely 11 beats in a series of measures, not 10.

Actually it's 3 bars of 4/4, 1 bar of 2/4 and then 2 bars of 4/4, and it repeats.
Haven't listened to the song in ages. Sorry about that.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#39
Quote by 7even
Actually it's 3 bars of 4/4, 1 bar of 2/4 and then 2 bars of 4/4, and it repeats.
Haven't listened to the song in ages. Sorry about that.
It seems much more logical to me to say it's 4/4, 3/4, then 4/4 (11 beats) instead of cramming in 22 beats.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#40
Perhaps, but if you listen to the chord changes i think it's very natural to break it down like that.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
Page 1 of 2