#1
hey ug

so i play metal, mostly modern stuff, and i know that modern metal uses pre-amp gain.
so i was wondering, if i wanted to get a good modern metal tone, would i need to buy one?
if so, which ones are good.

also if possible, could anyone tell me what a preamp would do and how it works

thanks for ur help
BriaN
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#3
basically a preamp is....
well, the best way i can explain it is the way active pickups work, I'm sure you'll be able to understand

in Active pickups, the part that uses a 9v battery is a preamp. Active pickups have an extremely low impedance and as a result, an unusable low output. the preamp is used to amplify the signal within the guitar
this gives them a useable output.
with normal pickups, a preamp amplifies the output further giving an even higher output. this gives a change in tone of some kind. I dont have experience with a passive pickup preamp though.
#4
A Preamp processes the signal, you need a power amp to amplify it through speakers. Look into the ENGL e350.
...
#5
is it possible to use a preamp and a head running into speakers
say
preamp--->any head -----> any cab
or
preamp----> any combo
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#6
Yes, but the Preamp will be colored by the clean channel of the amp unless you run it into an FX return, i.e

Preamp->FXReturn->Speakers
...
#7
Quote by soloXshredder
is it possible to use a preamp and a head running into speakers
say
preamp--->any head -----> any cab
or
preamp----> any combo


Only if they have an effects loop. You would run the preamp into the effects loop return (called slaving).
#8
what if i use it on the dirty channel?? will that give me too much of a distorted gainy sound.

only askin cos ALeci Laiho runs a lee jackson preamp into a jcm 800 head
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#9
Both of those are valve, so you can blend the distortions to an extent. Introduce any sort of solid state into the rig and you run the risk of getting what's called "crossover distortion" which basically means muddy undefined rubbish.
...
#10
you want pre-amp gain? why not just crank the pre-amp volume on your amp? or am I missing something else you're trying to do here?
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#11
I think you're misinterpreting things.

Most distortion for metal type sounds come from the preamp of your amp (ie: when you turn the gain/distortion knob up), whereas with classic rock and lower gain applications, most gain comes from the poweramp being cranked up (ie: turning the volume up loud). These statements are generally referred to with tube amps, though solid state amps do have preamp and power amp sections, it's generally not good to crank the power amp section of a solid state amp to get distortion, because it will sound pretty bad.

Your Line 6 Uber Metal is essentially a "preamp" in terms to how you're referring to it. It's an external source that adds distortion to your signal, without cranking the volume of your amp.
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#12
i know that i could crank the preamp gain on an amp
but if i were to add a preamp in the fx loop, it would be the same as adding a distortion pedal??
also how would a preamp in the fx loop affect the distortion and tone?
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#13
Quote by soloXshredder
i know that i could crank the preamp gain on an amp
but if i were to add a preamp in the fx loop, it would be the same as adding a distortion pedal??
also how would a preamp in the fx loop affect the distortion and tone?


Are you talking about using a preamp in the fx loop to replace the original preamp tone, or to supplement it?
#14
supplement
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#15
Quote by soloXshredder
supplement


Well, it probably wouldn't sound any good, if you wanna use an external preamp, use it directly into the power amp in of your amp. What could be cool though, is if you ran both preamps in parralel, like you split the signal coming from your guitar in two, one goes into your amp and the other into the external preamp, then the external preamp goes into the power amp in of your amp, then you can blend both and get more sound possibilities. But running both in serie won't sound good most likely.
#16
so ur saying running a preamp parallel into the fx loop so itl b like this

guitar-----> amp preamp (sounds wierd but bear with me) ---->amp power amp
| |
--------->preamp parallel into fx loop ------------ |
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#17
What Squit means is this:

Guitar-->Onboard Preamp-------------------->Onboard Power Amp
   ...-->External Preamp-->FX Loop Return-->...


You need to know if your original preamp signal can still function with only the FX loop return plugged in or not to know if this is possible though.
...
#18
Quote by bartdevil_metal
What Squit means is this:

Guitar-->Onboard Preamp-------------------->Onboard Power Amp
...-->External Preamp-->FX Loop Return-->...


You need to know if your original preamp signal can still function with only the FX loop return plugged in or not to know if this is possible though.


There's no reason the preamp wouldn't work
#20
What is your amp lacking right now that would make you want a pre-amp????

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#21
Nothing. This was just a general knowledge sort of thing.
I knew that Alexi Laiho deos it and i wanted to know how. Thats all
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#22
According to: http://www.guitar-stuff.net/2006/10/21/guitar-gear-alexi-laiho-of-children-of-bodom-guitar-amp-setup/

... he uses a poweramp, plugged into some effects and then a poweramp, rather than plugging the preamp into a normal amp. This is basically the same as a normal amp but with the pre- and power-amp sections split up.

Although, why it says he uses 2 Celestion speakers and a 4x12 cabinet, I don't know...
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#23
Quote by loonyguitarist
According to: http://www.guitar-stuff.net/2006/10/21/guitar-gear-alexi-laiho-of-children-of-bodom-guitar-amp-setup/

... he uses a preamp, plugged into some effects and then a poweramp, rather than plugging the preamp into a normal amp. This is basically the same as a normal amp but with the pre- and power-amp sections split up.

Although, why it says he uses 2 Celestion speakers and a 4x12 cabinet, I don't know...


Fixed
GEAR
ESP LTD Alexi-200
Blackstar HT-5 Mini Halfstack
Squier Affinity Strat
Dunlop Crybaby Wah
Line 6 Uber Metal
#24
I was almost positive that he started off using his Lee Jackson pre (whatever effects intellifex or some ****) into a peavey classic poweramp, then he switched to Engl poweramps, then he switched to VHT poweramps.

And I want to know what kind of preamps you guys are all referring to in this thread - because taking a large tube preamp with like 6 tubes and plugging it to an amp's preamp is pretty crap. For instance, I can almost guarantee that Alexi Laiho never plugged his Lee Jackson into the input of a JCM800 for shows.

Even my AMT SS-20 preamp pedal which only has one tube (use it for DI with speaker emulator out, worked great like that for a show series last year) into the front of an amp is pretty bad (it was designed to be a stand-alone preamp). Even if I work settings on the amp and the preamp as good as I can its still absolute shi-ite compared to the amp's preamp alone or the SS-20 into the fx return.

The story doesn't get any better for your common high end preamp. But pedals and other such boosts that were intended to be used in front of a full-size preamp are different stories, but those types of things are usually just referred to as clean boosts or distortion or overdrive pedals or whatever they are, even though they could be called preamps.
-Mike
Last edited by HopePoisoned at Sep 7, 2009,
#25
Quote by bartdevil_metal
Both of those are valve, so you can blend the distortions to an extent. Introduce any sort of solid state into the rig and you run the risk of getting what's called "crossover distortion" which basically means muddy undefined rubbish.


What? Crossover distortion is when the dips rather than peaks of the waves get distorted.
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