#1
so say youre writing a song in G
you could use the notes from the G scale, G A B C D E F# G

but how do you know the chord's type?
like Major, minor, 7th, etc.
#2
G major
A minor
B minor
C major
D major
E minor
F# diminished

There's many lessons on chord theory so it's best to look into those.
#3
first off, you need to know the formula for the major scale.
I ii iii IV V vi vii(dim) and I
that being said, you could use G major, A minor, B minor, C major, D major, E minor, and F# dim.
You could add whatever 7ths you want, as long as it's not an F (if you're playing in G)
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#4
Quote by pwrmax
G major
A minor
B minor
C major
D major
E minor
F# diminished

There's many lessons on chord theory so it's best to look into those.

F# Half Diminished you mean
#5
Quote by pwrmax
G major
A minor
B minor
C major
D major
E minor
F# diminished

There's many lessons on chord theory so it's best to look into those.


ahh beat me to it
Gear

Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender American Strat
Taylor 214ce
Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier (about to be Voodoo Modded)
Keeley TS-808
Boss GT-10 Processor
Boss RC-20xl
#6
Chords are based on thirds. So you take a root, go two notes up from that (in key), thats your third. Go two notes up from that, theres your fifth.

Ex: G, two notes, B, two notes, D
Now because theres 4 semitones in between G and B, its a major third, it (the chord) is major. Also because of the perfect fifth in between G and D.
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Last edited by Ribcage at Sep 6, 2009,
#7
Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished.
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Quote by freedoms_stain
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Maybe shagging Mark Knopfler, but that's about it.
#8
Quote by The Horror!
F# Half Diminished you mean

I wasn't referring to 7 chords.
#9
Quote by rocknskate4
first off, you need to know the formula for the major scale.
I ii iii IV V vi vii(dim) and I
that being said, you could use G major, A minor, B minor, C major, D major, E minor, and F# dim.
You could add whatever 7ths you want, as long as it's not an F (if you're playing in G)

That is incorrect, you can't add whatever 7ths you want, they have to be in key
The 5 (in the case of G, the D) would be a dominant seventh chord and the 7 would be half diminished
The rest are just normal minor and major sevenths

EDIT
Quote by pwrmax
I wasn't referring to 7 chords.

Even if you are only talking about the 1 3 and 5, it's still misleading
dim usually denotes a four note chord, not a three note: the dimished triad chord is usually denoted as a mb5
Last edited by The Horror! at Sep 6, 2009,
#10
Chords are built from stacked thirds. You already know the scale, so you should be able to derive the chords from that. Just so you know, starting on 6, you would stack thirds by doing 6, 1, 3, 5. Likewise built off 7, you get 7, 2, 4, 6.

That gives you the diatonic sevenths in a major key:

Imaj7
iimin7
iiimin7
IVmaj7
V7
vimin7
viimin7b5


Quote by The Horror!
the dimished triad chord is usually denoted as a mb5


I have never seen that. dim has always meant 1, b3, b5; dim7 has always meant 1, b3, b5, bb7
#11
Quote by isaac_bandits

I have never seen that. dim has always meant 1, b3, b5; dim7 has always meant 1, b3, b5, bb7

That's what I've always seen
In all the jazz charts I've ever played, I almost never see "dim7"; I just see "º" which implies a fully diminished chord
Whenever I'm supposed to play specifically a diminished triad, I see "mb5" or "-5"

Either way, to say diminished chord rather than diminished triad chord or half diminished chord implies that it is a fully diminished chord, which in this case, it is not
#12
Quote by The Horror!
That's what I've always seen
In all the jazz charts I've ever played, I almost never see "dim7"; I just see "º" which implies a fully diminished chord
Whenever I'm supposed to play specifically a diminished triad, I see "mb5" or "-5"

Either way, to say diminished chord rather than diminished triad chord or half diminished chord implies that it is a fully diminished chord, which in this case, it is not


I've always seen º7 for diminished seventh and ø7 for half diminished seventh on jazz charts, and I can't recall any specific chart calling for just a diminished triad, but in classical music, it is always viiº (or viiº6 or viiº6/4 for the inversions) for the diminished triad, and viiº7 (or viiº6/5, or viiº4/3 or viiº4/2 for the inversions) for the diminished seventh, and viiø7 (or viiø6/5, or viiø4/3 or viiø4/2 for the inversions) for the half-diminished seventh.
#13
Quote by The Horror!
Even if you are only talking about the 1 3 and 5, it's still misleading
dim usually denotes a four note chord, not a three note: the dimished triad chord is usually denoted as a mb5

If I was talking about 7th chords, I would say either fully or half diminished. If it's a triad then there isn't really a half or fully diminished, just diminished. I can understand the possible confusion it may cause though but in that context I didn't think it would mislead anyone.
Last edited by pwrmax at Sep 7, 2009,
#14
As some of the other guys have said, you form chords by stacking thirds.

To tell if its Maj/min

A Major chord is a Maj 3rd plus a min 3rd (eg C Maj = R 3 5 = C E G)
A minor chord is a min 3rd plus a Maj 3rd (eg A min = R b3 5 = A C E)
A diminished chord is min 3rds stacked on top of each other (eg a B dim triad is R b3 b5 = B D F)
A seventh chord has an extra 3rd stacked on top (eg CMaj7 = R 3 5 7 = C E G B)

A Major chord with a Maj 3rd on top is a Maj7th
A Major chord with a min 3rd on top is a Dom7th
A minor chord with a Maj 3rd on top is a min7th

A half diminshed 7th chord is a dim triad with a Maj 7th on top (eg Bø7 is R b3 b5 7 = B D F A) - Bø7 can also be called Bmin7b5
A fully diminished 7th chord is all min 3rds (eg Bº7 is R b3 b5 b7 = B D F Ab) - but don't worry about that too much just yet.

Learn how to harmonise the major scale in 3rds - it'll make more sense when you do it for yourself.
#15
Quote by zhilla
As some of the other guys have said, you form chords by stacking thirds.

To tell if its Maj/min

A Major chord is a Maj 3rd plus a min 3rd (eg C Maj = R 3 5 = C E G)
A minor chord is a min 3rd plus a Maj 3rd (eg A min = R b3 5 = A C E)
A diminished chord is min 3rds stacked on top of each other (eg a B dim triad is R b3 b5 = B D F)
A seventh chord has an extra 3rd stacked on top (eg CMaj7 = R 3 5 7 = C E G B)

A Major chord with a Maj 3rd on top is a Maj7th
A Major chord with a min 3rd on top is a Dom7th
A minor chord with a Maj 3rd on top is a min7th

A half diminshed 7th chord is a dim triad with a Maj 7th on top (eg Bø7 is R b3 b5 7 = B D F A) - Bø7 can also be called Bmin7b5
A fully diminished 7th chord is all min 3rds (eg Bº7 is R b3 b5 b7 = B D F Ab) - but don't worry about that too much just yet.

Learn how to harmonise the major scale in 3rds - it'll make more sense when you do it for yourself.


ø7 is 1, b3, b5, b7
º7 is 1 b3 b5 bb7
#16
Quote by isaac_bandits
I've always seen º7 for diminished seventh and ø7 for half diminished seventh on jazz charts, and I can't recall any specific chart calling for just a diminished triad, but in classical music, it is always viiº (or viiº6 or viiº6/4 for the inversions) for the diminished triad, and viiº7 (or viiº6/5, or viiº4/3 or viiº4/2 for the inversions) for the diminished seventh, and viiø7 (or viiø6/5, or viiø4/3 or viiø4/2 for the inversions) for the half-diminished seventh.

Aha! I have found two sources to back me up
To quote the Berklee Guitar Method Book: "This chord structure [Gº7] is also indicated by the abbreviation "dim." Even though the numeral 7 is often omitted from the symbol, diminished 7 is intended."

And Wikipedia: "In most sheet music books, Cdim or C° denotes a diminished seventh chord with root C."


YEAAAH IN YOUR FACE OMG I AM TEH P0wnz0Rz MWAHAHAHAHA

:cough cough:


...so yeah...
#17
Quote by The Horror!
Aha! I have found two sources to back me up
To quote the Berklee Guitar Method Book: "This chord structure [Gº7] is also indicated by the abbreviation "dim." Even though the numeral 7 is often omitted from the symbol, diminished 7 is intended."

And Wikipedia: "In most sheet music books, Cdim or C° denotes a diminished seventh chord with root C."


YEAAAH IN YOUR FACE OMG I AM TEH P0wnz0Rz MWAHAHAHAHA

:cough cough:

...so yeah...


I could edit wikipedia to make it agree with me.
#18
But you could not edit the Berklee Guitar Method Book 1 could you????? That's what I thought!



...you couldn't right?
#19
Quote by The Horror!
But you could not edit the Berklee Guitar Method Book 1 could you????? That's what I thought!



...you couldn't right?


Nope I couldn't, but I have a theory book upstairs (can't be bothered to find the name) which uses º for 1, b3, b5 and º7 for 1, b3, b5, bb7.
#21
On the day I graduated from high school, Wikipedia said that I was the Queen of Denmark (not that I had anything to do with that).

Moreover, different groups of musicians use different notations. It is akin to Newton using y' while Leibnitz used dy/dx. (Oh, yes, she went there.)

You're both right, but Isaac is the one who gets what I just said, so he wins.
#22
If you are in a major key, the minor major relationship is this:
I ii iii IV V vi vii^o. the capitals are major and lower case are minor vii is diminished. (Its supposed to be an exponent). You make a chord dominant (which refers to a V, which is dominant, with an added seventh) you have a major third, and a minor seventh in relationship to the chord, not the key you are in. This is signified by a triangle or just a 7 Minor 7 has minor third, minor 7th (signified by a -7 or m7 or min7), major 7 has major 3rd major 7th (signified as maj7 or M7).

When adding things to chords, you can add anything as long as it has context. For instance you can play a Db in a C7 and make it a C7b9. Jazz does this a lot.

If you are just writing a chord progression, stick to a simple circle progression, such as I iii vi ii V I, and add and subtract flavor and color where and when they are needed. If you like a churchy sound, end with IV I.
I am the only sane person on the planet. Does that make me crazy?

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#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
On the day I graduated from high school, Wikipedia said that I was the Queen of Denmark (not that I had anything to do with that).

Moreover, different groups of musicians use different notations. It is akin to Newton using y' while Leibnitz used dy/dx. (Oh, yes, she went there.)

You're both right, but Isaac is the one who gets what I just said, so he wins.


And now we use f'(x) too!
#24
Quote by bangoodcharlote
On the day I graduated from high school, Wikipedia said that I was the Queen of Denmark (not that I had anything to do with that).

Moreover, different groups of musicians use different notations. It is akin to Newton using y' while Leibnitz used dy/dx. (Oh, yes, she went there.)

You're both right, but Isaac is the one who gets what I just said, so he wins.


1) Different musicians use different notation
2) The notation that most people use (including myself and the institution of Berklee) is "dim" or "º" implying diminished 7.
3) The audience does not know whether the writer of the statement is operating under the above notation or something otherwise and can thus construe "dim" to mean a fully diminished chord
4) Therefore, using the term dim when the chord is actually a ø7 is misleading
QED


I get calculus too...
#25
Quote by The Horror!
1) Different musicians use different notation
2) The notation that most people use (including myself and the institution of Berklee) is "dim" or "º" implying diminished 7.
3) The audience does not know whether the writer of the statement is operating under the above notation or something otherwise and can thus construe "dim" to mean a fully diminished chord
4) Therefore, using the term dim when the chord is actually a ø7 is misleading
QED


I get calculus too...


Adding quod erat demonstrandum to the end of your fallacy doesn't improve its credentiality.

Nobody used dim for a ø7. They used dim for a diminished triad. Using half-diminished on anything that is not a diminished chord with a minor seventh, is not proper.
#26
Quote by isaac_bandits
Adding quod erat demonstrandum to the end of your fallacy doesn't improve its credentiality.

Nobody used dim for a ø7. They used dim for a diminished triad. Using half-diminished on anything that is not a diminished chord with a minor seventh, is not proper.

I never said it did (in regards to what you said about my saying QED)

Anyway, as I stated, dim is known to imply dim 7, or fully diminished
I have two sources to back this up
Therefore, using dim to mean a diminished triad (that is half diminished when you add the seventh) while not explicitly stating that you are referring to the triad only is misleading as one could take it to mean that they should use a fully diminished chord when they start adding the sevenths and not a half diminished

Dim implies a dim 7
The chord was not dim 7 but half diminished
This, though not outright wrong, is still misleading

But yeah, this argument is going in circles

Can we agree that to say dim and mean a diminished triad is misleading (in the case of the seventh not being fully diminished) since many people take dim to mean dim 7?