Page 1 of 2
#1
There are songs out there that is just sound. But they are only half songs.

I will take Dragonforce as an example. If you listen to their music, you will notice that there is no emotion or feeling to the music. It's just noise. Every one of their songs is just half a song, because there is no feeling to it. They're just trying to play their instrument as fast as they can.

Let me put it another way. Dragonforce (and a lot of other bands) make music that just 'sounds cool'. But there's no feeling. They don't make any effort to put emotion in their songs, and none is implied. There's no meaning to it. It's just half music.

A lot of other bands may not be as fast or heavy, but there is an underlying message, emotion, and a meaning to the music. And it makes it sound so much more complete, so much more meaningful, and so much more enjoyable.

Without a meaning, there is no music
#2
I agree, but death metal have even less emotion in my opinion. At least Dragonfoce are melodic and they have a couple of good ballads with emotional solos... nothing special but still better than teh br00talz.
#3
Agreed. Those meaningless and feelingless songs can be fun to listen to, but they don't last. You will get bored with them. But the feeling, that's what makes great songs great. That's why The Beatles, Hendrix and Clapton are amazing, while bands like Dragonforce are 'okay to listen to every now and then'. (Yes, I do realize it's a different genre, they are just examples.)
Tell me who's that writin'...
#4
Oh, please! There are so many stupid threads about this everywhere, and I've never really bothered to reply in any of those threads, but seriously, how many of these does it take to make people understand?

Have you ever heard the term subjective? I love nearly all kinds of music because every musical peice is made by someone they way THEY want it to sound. Allthough I'm not into Dragonforce at all, I can still respect them as musicians and to be honest, most people tend to flame them because they are jealous and that's it. Those people are not technical at all and to make themselves feel good they say: "this music is **** because it's so technical, I like music with emotion.. blahblahblah."

Have you ever thought about how many different emotions that exist? Happiness, love, despair, anger etc. There are so many! You seem to favor only one or two of them and that, to me is either narrowminded or stricktly stupid. In other words, you don't seem to get a good enough grasp on the other emotions around.

Black metal for instance sounds like noice to a lot of people basically because they think of music as a "thing" - in other words something you can discribe objectively. For example: "Music is beautiful, has a great emotional singer, use acoustic guitars tuned in E"

Normally this is a discription that does not fit in black metal. Therefore people don't understand it and don't like it. Black metal is usually all about the chilly and melancholic athmosphere. Some love this others don't.

I'm studying art at the moment and music is in many ways like visual art. Have you ever seen a really ugly picture? A picture that artists love and you can't really get it? "it's just a lot of triangles (for example)" The thing is that you don't get it's message. You don't get the picture at all. A picture may look beautiful to one person, but ugly to another. And the more open minded you are the better your understanding of art/music will become.
Gear:

ESP Eclipse See Thru Black/Cherry
ESP LTD M-200FM
BC Rich Warlock NJ Neck Thru Series
Peavey 5150 head and cab
Boss GT-8
Line 6 PODxt
Peavey Valveking 112
Roland Microcube
Jazz III picks (black)
Arte Sania acoustic
Last edited by Mjod at Sep 8, 2009,
#5
Quote by Mjod
Oh, please! There are so many stupid threads about this everywhere, and I've never really bothered to reply in any of those threads, but seriously, how many of these does it take to make people understand?

Have you ever heard the term subjective? I love nearly all kinds of music because every musical peice is made by someone they way THEY want it to sound. Allthough I'm not into Dragonforce at all, I can still respect them as musicians and to be honest, most people tend to flame them because they are jealous and that's it. Those people are not technical at all and to make themselves feel good they say: "this music is **** because it's so technical, I like music with emotion.. blahblahblah."

Have you ever thought about how many different emotions that exist? Happiness, love, despair, anger etc. There are so many! You seem to favor only one or two of them and that, to me is either narrowminded or stricktly stupid. In other words, you don't seem to get a good enough grasp on the other emotions around.

Black metal for instance sounds like noice to a lot of people basically because they think of music as a "thing" - in other words something you can discribe objectively. For example: "Music is beautiful, has a great emotional singer, use acoustic guitars tuned in E"

Normally this is a discription that does not fit in black metal. Therefore people don't understand it and don't like it. Black metal is usually all about the chilly and melancholic athmosphere. Some love this others don't.

I'm studying art at the moment and music is in many ways like visual art. Have you ever seen a really ugly picture? A picture that artists love and you can't really get it? "it's just a lot of triangles (for example)" The thing is that you don't get it's message. You don't get the picture at all. A picture may look beautiful to one person, but ugly to another. And the more open minded you are the better your understanding of art/music will become.
You didn't think for one second that I was stating my opinion, did you?
#6
Quote by 1nSingularity
You didn't think for one second that I was stating my opinion, did you?


Of course I did, but why state that "this and that has no emotion, this is half music" when you actually haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Only your pointless subjective opinion which contains no facts at all - music has a lot of faces and you don't know them all yet.

I'm not attacking you, but I just think that you should see music a little bit differently and stop flaming music you don't really understand or get the entire picture of.
Gear:

ESP Eclipse See Thru Black/Cherry
ESP LTD M-200FM
BC Rich Warlock NJ Neck Thru Series
Peavey 5150 head and cab
Boss GT-8
Line 6 PODxt
Peavey Valveking 112
Roland Microcube
Jazz III picks (black)
Arte Sania acoustic
Last edited by Mjod at Sep 8, 2009,
#7
Emotion is subjective to the person listening.
/thread.
Quote by MoogleRancha

You sir, are a genius.

I salute you.

Quote by iwontwait
The bestowing of this thread on my life is yours. Thank you, Benjabenja.
#8
Quote by Benjabenja
Emotion is subjective to the person listening.
/thread.


Emotion is not subjective. Only the quantity of it is. I'm done.
Gear:

ESP Eclipse See Thru Black/Cherry
ESP LTD M-200FM
BC Rich Warlock NJ Neck Thru Series
Peavey 5150 head and cab
Boss GT-8
Line 6 PODxt
Peavey Valveking 112
Roland Microcube
Jazz III picks (black)
Arte Sania acoustic
#10
Quote by Poglia
I agree, but death metal have even less emotion in my opinion. At least Dragonfoce are melodic and they have a couple of good ballads with emotional solos... nothing special but still better than teh br00talz.


Haha, yeah, because death metal can never have emotion in it!
Because bands like cannibal corpse make up 100% of all the death metal bands out there! yeah!

No.
Quote by Mjod
Of course I did, but why state that "this and that has no emotion, this is half music" when you actually haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Only your pointless subjective opinion which contains no facts at all - music has a lot of faces and you don't know them all yet.

I'm not attacking you, but I just think that you should see music a little bit differently and stop flaming music you don't really understand or get the entire picture of.


+1
#12
Quote by Mjod
Of course I did, but why state that "this and that has no emotion, this is half music" when you actually haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Only your pointless subjective opinion which contains no facts at all - music has a lot of faces and you don't know them all yet.

I'm not attacking you, but I just think that you should see music a little bit differently and stop flaming music you don't really understand or get the entire picture of.
This is my opinion. Don't disagree with me, disagree with what I say (there's a difference)
#14
I think all music has a degree of emotionality to it. And, of course, interpreting that emotionality is all up to the listener.
<<My lyric. Critique, please?

You can't change the world but you can make a dent.
#17
emotion is for pussies.

real men play really fast and technical music to show how much better than you they are
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#18
Quote by romencer17
emotion is for pussies.

real men play really fast and technical music to show how much better than you they are

Indeed
This, and atmospheric black metal, that stuff wins this thread
Other planes lie beyond the reach
Of normal sense and common roads
But they are no less real
Than what we see or touch or feel
-Burzum

MoogleRancha is a twat
#19
i was trolling, but that's cool
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#20
Quote by romencer17
i was trolling, but that's cool

I know, I was just helping you troll
Other planes lie beyond the reach
Of normal sense and common roads
But they are no less real
Than what we see or touch or feel
-Burzum

MoogleRancha is a twat
#21
anyways, emotion has emo in it, so we know you can't be kvlt if you feel emotions
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#22
Quote by 1nSingularity
This is my opinion. Don't disagree with me, disagree with what I say (there's a difference)


I laughed a little.

There is a reason musicians are called "artists"
"I'll bite into your face just to be close to your eyes"
#24
Quote by Apathium
I laughed a little.

There is a reason musicians are called "artists"
...I don't get it
#25
That's not entirely true. Classical tunes wrote by Bach and what have you didn't put emotion into their compositions. They just made good tunes.
Quote by ErikLensherr
Did you hear about the cockney Godfather?

He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#26
I'm not exactly a fan of Dragonforce but **** you OP, you gotta learn that music is opinion. How the **** can you say that they play with no emotion? Have you even listened to them or seen them live? I believe that every band has emotion and plays with passion. When I play guitar, you don't see me making strange faces or running around. I play by actually feeling the music and it is different for everyone.

P.S - Why is everybody flaming Dragonforce? They are just a band keep it to youself. You listen to one song and play guitar hero and you judge them on that? I bet you are all 14 h.s kids that goes with the bandwagon.
Schecter Daimen FR Special
Guitar Rig 3
#27
Quote by steve_muse
That's not entirely true. Classical tunes wrote by Bach and what have you didn't put emotion into their compositions. They just made good tunes.




Good one.
Quote by ChemicalFire
The point of underground bands is their not popular or famous most of the time. Thus there is a good chance they suck.
#29
Quote by 1nSingularity
There are songs out there that is just sound. But they are only half songs.


Technically, ALL songs are just sound. No matter how much "emotion" or "underlying messages" you put in, there are going to be people who understand and enjoy, and people who don't. So I think what you meant to say was, "There are songs out there that just sound like sound to me."

Or, in other words, all you're saying is, "There are songs that I don't find interesting." Wow, how interesting.

The point is, you're acting as if your words are OBJECTIVE, even though you tried to maintain that they were subjective.

Quote by 1nSingularity
I will take Dragonforce as an example. If you listen to their music, you will notice that there is no emotion or feeling to the music. It's just noise. Every one of their songs is just half a song, because there is no feeling to it. They're just trying to play their instrument as fast as they can.


Again, you're assuming everyone has the same opinion as you, as if it were an objective fact that there's no emotion behind their music. There are people who listen to Dragonforce, and get emotionally affected by it, you know?

Everything else in that paragraph is nonsense. But hey, look, you tried to correct it!

Quote by 1nSingularity
Let me put it another way. Dragonforce (and a lot of other bands) make music that just 'sounds cool'. But there's no feeling. They don't make any effort to put emotion in their songs, and none is implied. There's no meaning to it. It's just half music.


Again, subjective, blah blah blah... This really is blog material, buddy. I guess the only problem I have with your post is that it sounds like you're trying to persuade everyone to your opinion... As if it's some objective truth.

A lot of other bands may not be as fast or heavy, but there is an underlying message, emotion, and a meaning to the music. And it makes it sound so much more complete, so much more meaningful, and so much more enjoyable.

Without a meaning, there is no music


Again. You think if I wrote a song that to me, sounded spirit-shattering and devastating, was influenced by dark times in my life, or some other depressing **** like that, EVERYONE else would feel that same way about the piece? No, of course not.

Those people felt nothing of the emotion I put behind it.

Alternatively, do you think people can't find emotion in a riff that was created by a computer? It'd be ridiculous to think that some people wouldn't.

so. Yeah. Subjectivity.
Last edited by RedDeath9 at Sep 11, 2009,
#30
Quote by steve_muse
That's not entirely true. Classical tunes wrote by Bach and what have you didn't put emotion into their compositions. They just made good tunes.




I generally like my music to have emotion in it, but there are a lot of things I can find to like in a song even if it isn't too emotional. Emotion may be one of the most important things to me in music, but it's not the only thing I care about in music.
#31
Here is a rebuttal for rebuttal's sake, to show you why being objective in this matter always fails.

I personally find Nirvana to one of the most lifeless and boring excuses for music ever. Their music only evokes one emotion within me: boredom. When I hear their music I don't hear the cries of a broken spirit appealing to an outside world, although you may do. What I hear is a cynical attempt to appeal to a key demographic.

EDIT:

And to your Classical compositions comment:

For one, Bach's music is not Classical, it is Baroque.

Two, in the likelihood that you don't know the difference between Classical and Baroque and are referencing any artist under the umbrella of classical, "no capital 'C' when you are referring to the umbrella term", music. You should listen to other composer's such as Vivaldi, Beethoven, Mahler, Mozart, Brahms, Shostakovich, Rachmaninov, Stravinsky, Debussy, Penderecki, Holst and tell me that their is no emotion behind the music, "that they are just writing cool tunes".

Such ignorance astounds me.
Last edited by LucasGtrGod at Sep 12, 2009,
#32
This is my opinion. I don't care if you agree or disagree, or totally hate me for it. I'm just putting it out there.

Flaming never solved anything (and FTR my intention is not to flame anyone)

Also something tells me that if I used the word 'meaning', rather than 'emotion', I wouldn't be attacked from all angles about this
Last edited by 1nSingularity at Sep 12, 2009,
#33
everyone feels emotion's differently, so to say one sort of music is emotionless is stupid and very ignorant, just because you don't feel the emotion in Dragonforce's music does not mean its emotionless it just means you don't relate to it or are emotionally turned on by it, obviously their fan base is.

just to clarify i don't listen to or like Dragonforce
I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to
- Jimi Hendrix


Im tired of following my dreams, im going to ask them where their going and hook up with them later
- Mitch Hedberg
#34
All music has emotion to it.
frog_friend and WGP: UG's Kramer brotherhood

Ug's 4th ENGL endorser
Randy Rhoads is god
founder of the "ENGL amps" fanclub. PM me to join
#35
Dumb thread. Agree with above poster. All songs have a 'feel' to them... just because it's not you're genre of choice doesn't mean it's emotionless. It just means you don't connect with it.
#36
Quote by frog_friend
All music has emotion to it.

+2.

Dragonforce just has a different way of expressing that emotion.

Stupid thread.
Thomas hopes to not have offended anyone with this post. No responsibility whatsoever is taken for any spelling or grammar mistakes, should there be any.

last.fm
#37
I agree with post?organic (cool name, btw)

I don't particularly like metal or anything, but I'm not about to say it's emotionless.


if I want to hear some emotion or whatever, I'll put on some Miles Davis or Tom Waits, but that doesn't mean you will.
#38
I think it was Deliriumbassist in the Bass forum that said that metal bands and shredders and the like are underservingly suffering from ''David Gilmour Syndrome'' and that above a certain BPM music ''loses emotion''.

I must say I agree, because I totally feel no fear when I plummet from a building at 300mph. Just under 280 and I'm like ****!
#39
I think every music has different soul, emotion, and meaning… And the band who play their song have different way to show others what's the meaning and they feeling about the song… But in fact, not everyone can get it…

"Everything has it's beauty, but not everyone sees it"…
#40
Music is not a sentient being, and therefore has no emotion. Music is only emotional in that it warrants an emotional response from the listener. This, however, is a subjective experience. One person may find "beauty" and "meaning" and "emotion" in Metallica's music, another in Nirvana's, another in John Coltrane's. Who's to say that one is better or more emotional or more meaningful?

I don't believe meaning is at all necessary to or inherently present in music.
There are certainly bands that have a specific message; CRASS, of course, comes to mind as a band that really emphasized their message more so than their music.
But what about a band like the PIXIES? What do their songs mean? And does it really matter? They're lyrics don't offer any enlightenment or emotional insights. Yet I believe (and others are sure to disagree) that they're music is fantastic, that Surfer Rosa is one of the finest examples of music ever produced. I feel a strong emotional connection to the music. One might say that I admire it intensely; and, as a wiser man than myself once said "The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely".

So why waste all this time arguing about emotion and meaning? There are, perhaps, those among you who believe that by pointing out some higher meaning, you can prove certain music to be better and more important. But in the end, all art is quite useless.
Page 1 of 2