#1
I try to jam to a backing track, but I'm having some troubles. It's the key that's giving my problems. When it says Key of C I can jam to C major right? Also, does that mean I shouldn't use a minor scale? What if it says C minor? Do I use a minor scale or drop everything down a half step? Could I use the pentatonic despite it being in major or minor?

I'm not really good at this stuff yet, but hope to be soon. Also, what is the best site for scales because some sites I go to say different notes.
#2
if it just say C they normally mean C major, and you use the minor scales for minor keys. and yes, you can use the pentatonic since it's the same thing except it's missing two notes.
#3
You can use any scale as long as its in the same key or a relative minor

Also, a minor scale doesn't mean playing everything a half step down. Not how it works. Doing that would make it a Cb
Gear
Jackson RR24M - EMG ALX w/ ABQ installed
Ibanez Xiphos - stock
LTD Alexi 600 - stock
Ibanex RG - Tone Zone(bridge), PAF Pro(neck)
Blackstar HT-20H
Fulltone OCD
MXR 10 Band EQ
#4
If it's in C major, it means that it uses the notes of C major and resolves on C. You can still play minor over it, but it would have to be the relative minor to C major, which is A minor. They both share the same notes, but A minor resolves on A.

Minor is a major scale started on the 6th note, not a major scale played half a steb under the major. eg, C major is CDEFGAB, A minor is ABCDEFG. So, the relative minor is a minor scale started 9 semitones above the start of the major scale.

As has been said, a pentatonic is a scale with 2 notes removed. You get major and minor pentatonics (along with other modes), so you can use C major or A minor pentatonic in the key of C major
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
Zilla: Fatboy 2x12
Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M
Last edited by pigeonmafia at Sep 11, 2009,
#5
You can't "play the relative minor" at all, there's no such thing. If the chord progression resolves to C major then the notes C D E F G A B, in any order, are the C major scale - even in the order A B C D E F G.

However, what you can do, depending on the chords, is play around with the parallel minor of C minor - that's a common tool in blues, rock and metal music.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#6
Quote by steven seagull
You can't "play the relative minor" at all, there's no such thing. If the chord progression resolves to C major then the notes C D E F G A B, in any order, are the C major scale - even in the order A B C D E F G.

However, what you can do, depending on the chords, is play around with the parallel minor of C minor - that's a common tool in blues, rock and metal music.


I said relative minor because alot of people, when soloing, think of starting the scale at different notes as completely different scales: so i said play A minor over the top as he seemed to think you could only use a major box shape. I was trying to get TS to see that you could still use a minor 'box' shape for lead, as it's the minor relative to the major key it's in
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
Zilla: Fatboy 2x12
Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M
#8
TS, scales are a collection of notes people in this part of world are used to hearing together. If a chord progression uses the notes of the C major scale, and resolves to the note C, we say that it is in the key of C, which really means that the music has been structured for the listener to sound that way. If a song is "in the key of C", you can use any note in the C major scale, since that what the listener is expecting to hear. There are methods of playing notes outside of the key of C, but don't worry about those until you can jam effortlessly inside the keys, or you will just confuse yourself and stifle your growth as a musician.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Theory is descriptive, not prescriptive.


Quote by MiKe Hendryckz
theory states 1+1=2 sometimes in music 1+1=3.
#9
Quote by pigeonmafia
I said relative minor because alot of people, when soloing, think of starting the scale at different notes as completely different scales: so i said play A minor over the top as he seemed to think you could only use a major box shape. I was trying to get TS to see that you could still use a minor 'box' shape for lead, as it's the minor relative to the major key it's in

But that's not playing a different scale, it's still the C major scale and thinking that it's differnt is plain wrong, simple as. If it works for you then great, but it's not something to give as advice.

What you choose to call a box shape is irrelevant, the harmony dictates what scale that shape will be, not some arbitrary decision.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#10
Quote by steven seagull
But that's not playing a different scale, it's still the C major scale and thinking that it's differnt is plain wrong, simple as. If it works for you then great, but it's not something to give as advice.

What you choose to call a box shape is irrelevant, the harmony dictates what scale that shape will be, not some arbitrary decision.


he wasn't saying it was different, he is saying you can use the same minor "shapes" to play major scales. it doesn't make sense to learn two completely different patterns for major and minor because they use the same exact patterns, just with a different tonality. he wasn't meaning to say that you can play A minor over C major (that would just be playing C major) he's just saying you can use the same box pattern to play C major.

the way a lot of you talk about things like this makes it sound like ya'll are thinking of every single note name you are playing, no matter how fast you are playing.
#11
Quote by The4thHorsemen
he wasn't saying it was different, he is saying you can use the same minor "shapes" to play major scales. it doesn't make sense to learn two completely different patterns for major and minor because they use the same exact patterns, just with a different tonality. he wasn't meaning to say that you can play A minor over C major (that would just be playing C major) he's just saying you can use the same box pattern to play C major.

the way a lot of you talk about things like this makes it sound like ya'll are thinking of every single note name you are playing, no matter how fast you are playing.


Thank you, that's exactly what I was saying.

steven seagull, I wasn't saying 'think of each mode as a different scale', I was saying that as TS seems to ALREADY think that, he should take his minor scale shape and play it, with it starting at A, so he could realise by himself that actualy the different 'shapes' are all the same scale started in a different place, so he would end up NOT thinking of each box shape as a different scale, and hopefully start to put each box shape together and use them all when soloing in one fluid motion, instead of just sticking to a single one.

Quote by zorbozate

you,ve had exell. advice......pigeonmafia...has it righton the nose!!!!!!!


I may have to sig that
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
Zilla: Fatboy 2x12
Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M
#12
Quote by pigeonmafia
Thank you, that's exactly what I was saying.

steven seagull, I wasn't saying 'think of each mode as a different scale', I was saying that as TS seems to ALREADY think that, he should take his minor scale shape and play it, with it starting at A, so he could realise by himself that actualy the different 'shapes' are all the same scale started in a different place, so he would end up NOT thinking of each box shape as a different scale, and hopefully start to put each box shape together and use them all when soloing in one fluid motion, instead of just sticking to a single one.


I may have to sig that


Then you shouldn't mention A minor. If you want him to play the sixth box shape of the major scale, then thats fine. Say that. He can play any of the 7 box shapes for C major, and connect them, which will eventually result in fluid playing across the entire neck while not being confined to one box.

Teach him the right way to think of it, rather than telling him what will get him to play the right thing based on his flawed knowledge, and then hope he'll stumble across the right knowledge in doing so.
#13
Quote by isaac_bandits
Then you shouldn't mention A minor. If you want him to play the sixth box shape of the major scale, then thats fine. Say that. He can play any of the 7 box shapes for C major, and connect them, which will eventually result in fluid playing across the entire neck while not being confined to one box.

Teach him the right way to think of it, rather than telling him what will get him to play the right thing based on his flawed knowledge, and then hope he'll stumble across the right knowledge in doing so.
This. 6th box shape of A natural minor and C major are not the same. Same notes, yes. But: the accent notes (the chord tones) are different. If you're playing in C major, the chord tones are C E and G; you're going to resolve to C, but E and G will have strong harmony. If you're playing in Am the chord tones are A C and E; you're going to resolve to A, but C and E will have strong harmony. If you're playing in Am a G will have much different harmony than it will in C. It's a perfect fifth in C and it's a bVII in Am. They sound WAY different.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#14
Quote by isaac_bandits
Teach him the right way to think of it, rather than telling him what will get him to play the right thing based on his flawed knowledge, and then hope he'll stumble across the right knowledge in doing so.


I've just always found that people get a better understanding when it's not all handed to them to just memorise. If they have to do the extra step by themselves, once you've given hints if you like.

But I understand it's not going to be the right thing to do for everyone.

So sorry if I've caused any (musical) offence, or confused anyone.
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
Zilla: Fatboy 2x12
Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M