#1
Here is the mystery amp I have been searching for info on. Not sure of the date of manufacture. It is not the "Jimmy Page" Royal as I had hoped but strange none the less. It is a 150 watt, all tube, no master volume, Royal Studio Master 174 head . Made in Japan by the Royal Musical Instrument Corp. Looks like a Bassman or a Sunn knock-off to me except there is no gain control and no master. It has 2 Matsu****a 6CA7 output tubes. Never seen those before but they look similar to a 6L6. I will have to track those down seeing how one is missing. It has 5 ancient looking GE12AX7as in the pre-amp. It also has a nylon sleeve with snaps that holds the spring reverb chamber. It also has tremolo. I have never seen another one on the web or otherwise. It would probably make a pretty decent bass amp also. I love weird stuff.
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7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
Last edited by miketheslut at Sep 12, 2009,
#4
Quote by SimplyBen
Looks pretty cool
How's she sound?


I have to track down a power tube before I can see if it works. It was supposed to have worked before the tube fried though. Guy was playing bass thru it.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#5
That looks like it could be a fun little project. HNAD!
Quote by Marty Friedman
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#6
Make sure you get old N.O.S tubes, or you could blow something up, CP tubes aren't great with the high plate voltages of old amps.
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#8
Quote by bartdevil_metal
Looks like a Fender Twin Clone. Looking forward to clips
I finally got a good recorder now I am scratching for mics. The Nady I have is well....not good.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#9
You might wanna make sure the rectifier is up to scratch too, and only replace it with a NOS one ( Guessing it's a tube rectifier)
Btw, did you say it's 150watts with only 2 tubes?

How the **** does it squeeze 75watts from a tube o.0 You can't even do that with KT 88s
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Last edited by Jesstaa at Sep 12, 2009,
#10
Quote by Jesstaa
You might wanna make sure the rectifier is up to scratch too, and only replace it with a NOS one ( Guessing it's a tube rectifier)
Btw, did you say it's 150watts with only 2 tubes?

How the **** does it squeeze 75watts from a tube o.0 You can't even do that with KT 88s

My thoughts exactly. I really have never heard of a Matsu****a 6CA7 tube in my life.

automatically censors the brand name Matsu****a because it contains the word ****.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
Last edited by miketheslut at Sep 12, 2009,
#11
Quote by miketheslut
My thoughts exactly. I really have never heard of a Matsu****a 6CA7 tube in my life.


6CA7 is the old American name for EL34s I'm pretty sure, still no clue how they can pull 75watts out of one xD


But remember, N.O.S tubes only, if you use CP, this will most likely happen:

http://tinyurl.com/oq2cov
http://tinyurl.com/rxxjav

That's what happened to my amp.
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Last edited by Jesstaa at Sep 12, 2009,
#12
Quote by Jesstaa
6CA7 is the old American name for EL34s I'm pretty sure, still no clue how they can pull 75watts out of one xD

Older MIJ electronics products always were good for fudging output numbers. this must be the original Bugera.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#13
Sick amp! Congrats on the NAD!
Quote by miketheslut
My thoughts exactly. I really have never heard of a Matsu****a 6CA7 tube in my life.

automatically censors the brand name Matsu****a because it contains the word ****.

My amp also runs 6CA7 power tubes. They are the exact same as EL34s and are a direct replacement. I have current production EHX 6CA7s in mine though (EHX us the only one who still makes them and they are made to original Phillips specs).

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#14
Quote by Dr.Pain-MD
Sick amp! Congrats on the NAD!

My amp also runs 6CA7 power tubes. They are the exact same as EL34s and are a direct replacement. I have current production EHX 6CA7s in mine though (EHX us the only one who still makes them and they are made to original Phillips specs).

So the 150 watt output rating is a little generous?
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#15
Quote by miketheslut
So the 150 watt output rating is a little generous?

Wait, is it RMS?

A pair of EL34s could easily pull off 150watts non-RMS (RMS = before distortion, which is why a 100watt tube amp will be a ****load louder than a 100watt solid state, because tubes distort much earlier than solid state stuff.)
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#16
6CA7's are the american equivalent of the EL34, i have a set in my music man 115-65 and in my music man hd-130. my music man runs capacity plate voltage and an 8 ohm speaker making on 65 watts. i would judge that being much closer to actual rating. i own quite a multitude of vintage amplifiers and i am unaware of what jestaa is saying about NOS tubes(i own an embarrassingly large number of those too). a 6CA7 has the same plate voltage specs as an EL34(kinda like the ecc83 is equivalent to a 12ax-7)


The EL34 and it's "Americanized" version, the 6CA7, are among the most popular and sought out vintage tubes today. This tube is a pentode of the power amplifier type. It probably gained most of it's popularity as the output tube of choice in the famous Dynakit ST70 amps, but it has been around since the 1950s. It was found in musicial instrument amps, public address systems, and other types of home and professional audio systems. It packs quite a whallop in a rather small glass package, and yet, in well crafted amps like the ST70, it can image well, with a delicate airy touch and a solid bottom end. I have never heard a "bad" vintage EL34. Even those made in the late 1970s in Great Britain are wonderful tubes, easily outperforming the current made tubes of this type. The EL34 and 6CA7 are identical, and most versions have both type numbers on the label. Another British-made tube, the KT77, is also a drop-in replacement for the EL34/6CA7 family. This is an excellent, but rare tube not often found in the USA>

just in case you value someone else's info over mine.

also, tube rectifiers were kinda out of style by this time period, ss ones were preferred around this time period(which looks like silverface era?). and i see no tubes that i would consider rectifier tubes. but even still, NOS tubes would not necessarily be favorable for this application either.

bottomline is, sure NOS and JAN tubes were made to higher quality standards back then, but the specifications should still hold as the tube designations dictate their operating capacities(ie pin set and plate voltage and the such). that being sad, my music man amps were notorious for running higher plate voltages, but i still have had modern tube sets work just fine in them.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#17
Quote by Jesstaa
Wait, is it RMS?

A pair of EL34s could easily pull off 150watts non-RMS (RMS = before distortion, which is why a 100watt tube amp will be a ****load louder than a 100watt solid state, because tubes distort much earlier than solid state stuff.)

RMS is 70 watts. Plate on the back says 150 watts but the face says 140 watts. It is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of loud.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#18
Quote by Jesstaa
Wait, is it RMS?

A pair of EL34s could easily pull off 150watts non-RMS (RMS = before distortion, which is why a 100watt tube amp will be a ****load louder than a 100watt solid state, because tubes distort much earlier than solid state stuff.)


rms = root mean square. this means it more or less averages the power output of the amp. another rating would be peak power output. you can see these specs repeated in speaker tolerance ratings.

tubes don't distort much earlier, they distort differently. they have a soft compression on the output signal as compared to the hard compression of a ss amp. hence why the tone of a distorted power section on a ss amp is undesireable. in either case the wattage rating is recorded at peak clean level.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Sep 12, 2009,
#19
Quote by gumbilicious
6CA7's are the american equivalent of the EL34, i have a set in my music man 115-65 and in my music man hd-130. my music man runs capacity plate voltage and an 8 ohm speaker making on 65 watts. i would judge that being much closer to actual rating. i own quite a multitude of vintage amplifiers and i am unaware of what jestaa is saying about NOS tubes(i own an embarrassingly large number of those too). a 6CA7 has the same plate voltage specs as an EL34(kinda like the ecc83 is equivalent to a 12ax-7)


just in case you value someone else's info over mine.

also, tube rectifiers were kinda out of style by this time period, ss ones were preferred around this time period(which looks like silverface era?). and i see no tubes that i would consider rectifier tubes. but even still, NOS tubes would not necessarily be favorable for this application either.

bottomline is, sure NOS and JAN tubes were made to higher quality standards back then, but the specifications should still hold as the tube designations dictate their operating capacities(ie pin set and plate voltage and the such). that being sad, my music man amps were notorious for running higher plate voltages, but i still have had modern tube sets work just fine in them.



Well if they work fine for you, that's good. But it is a fact that CP tubes will fail more than N.O.S tubes. N.O.S tubes were burnt in at something like 600volts, whereas CP tuebs are burnt in at 400volts, also, the quality control is a much lower standard. If you don't believe me, go to Marshallforum.com and talk to MartyStrat54, he'll explain EVERYTHING you'll ever need to know.

Quote by miketheslut
RMS is 70 watts. Plate on the back says 150 watts but the face says 140 watts. It is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of loud.


If the RMS is 70watts, yeah, it's loud xD

And the 150watts rating could be the power consumption rating, although I'd expect that to be higher.

Quote by gumbilicious
rms = root mean square. this means it more or less averages the power output of the amp. another rating would be peak power output. you can see these specs repeated in speaker tolerance ratings.

tubes don't distort much earlier, they distort differently. they have a soft compression on the output signal as compared to the hard compression of a ss amp. hence why the tone of a distorted power section on a ss amp is undesireable. in either case the wattage rating is recorded at peak clean level.


Alright, but for the purpose of simplicity, I say they distort earlier, as they distort before reaching their absolute total output, whereas solid state devices only begin to distort right around their maximum output.
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Last edited by Jesstaa at Sep 12, 2009,
#20
i don't need you're information. i was just trying to temper your opinion. your little bit of knowledge is dangerous. TS, i wouldn't take this guys word for anything. mine either. take care in the advice you get in these forums
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#21
Quote by gumbilicious
i don't need you're information. i was just trying to temper your opinion. your little bit of knowledge is dangerous. TS, i wouldn't take this guys word for anything. mine either. take care in the advice you get in these forums


Whatever, but you can't deny that N.O.S tubes are far superior to Current Production tubes.
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#22
swapping tubes around is alot of the fun of a tube amp. I am glad the tubes are all different and when they burn, it gives me a good excuse to try some more.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#23
Whatever, but you can't deny that N.O.S tubes are far superior to Current Production tubes.


i don't at all, i mentioned that in my first post. we'll never see tubes as good again. it's why i have a ton of them. but really that is independent of an amps operating plate voltage and what a tube tolerances are. i do admit that not any current production tube can be inserted into any amp, the tube must be able to handle the specs of that amp. but that is independent of when it was made. i had to use svetlana's in my music man hd150 cuz it had to handle PV's in excess of 700 volts
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#24
Quote by gumbilicious
i don't at all, i mentioned that in my first post. we'll never see tubes as good again. it's why i have a ton of them. but really that is independent of an amps operating plate voltage and what a tube tolerances are. i do admit that not any current production tube can be inserted into any amp, the tube must be able to handle the specs of that amp. but that is independent of when it was made. i had to use svetlana's in my music man hd150 cuz it had to handle PV's in excess of 700 volts


Bloody hell, 700 volts? o.0
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#25
Is that an MG in the background of the 3rd pic?
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yea its way too much for my little stick lol
#26
Quote by Jesstaa
Bloody hell, 700 volts? o.0


not totally, the plate voltage were 680+ though. it very much limited my options of tubes. there is hardly any newer tubes that can handle that and i couldn't go out to get a 4 set of sylvania 6L6GC's to replace them. and i do not expect them to last anywhere near as long as the 27 years the sylvania's last. like you said, newer tubes kinda suck.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#27
Quote by sw1ss023
Is that an MG in the background of the 3rd pic?

Ha! Its a valvestate 10. He insisted I take it in the deal.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#28
Quote by miketheslut
Ha! Its a valvestate 10. He insisted I take it in the deal.

Whoah, they have valvestates that small? I need one, nao!!!
HNAD!
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Excessive punctuation!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote by dhutton
+infinity

I have infinity.
Quote by metharian
yea its way too much for my little stick lol
#29
Quote by sw1ss023
Whoah, they have valvestates that small? I need one, nao!!!
HNAD!

its pretty bad.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#30
can't believe valvestates are getting this much press. i gave mine away too, it is what made me never want a marshall again. can't wash that taste out your mouth. well, i would consider an old plexi maybe, but i might as well get someone to custom handwire me a modified 5F6-A circuit.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#31
Quote by gumbilicious
can't believe valvestates are getting this much press. i gave mine away too, it is what made me never want a marshall again. can't wash that taste out your mouth. well, i would consider an old plexi maybe, but i might as well get someone to custom handwire me a modified 5F6-A circuit.

+1 Plexi ,JCM800 the original B (brootahl), bluesbreaker combos, anything early. I digress.
7 string Legion 7 > 6 Do mosh pits warm your heart? Then become a SECOND RATE CITIZEN.....better than the worst!
#32
Awesome looking amp, but I'm more jealous of your car

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#33
Sweet, love me song vintage off-brand action
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#34
Quote by Jesstaa
Make sure you get old N.O.S tubes, or you could blow something up, CP tubes aren't great with the high plate voltages of old amps.
Not... really.
Quote by Jesstaa



But remember, N.O.S tubes only, if you use CP, this will most likely happen:

http://tinyurl.com/oq2cov
http://tinyurl.com/rxxjav

That's what happened to my amp.
Voltage does not damage anything, it's just a measure of potential. That's it, what is damaging is current, which is why, the max plate voltage you have does not matter so much as long as the tube does not have too much current through the plates and does not dissipate too much heat. You just need to make sure you bias correctly.

Quote by Jesstaa
Whatever, but you can't deny that N.O.S tubes are far superior to Current Production tubes.
Ok, I agree with this.

edit: Here is an example, just running a google search the typical spec of a 6v6 has a "max plate voltage" of 315 volts

http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6v6

And yet, people have no problems running them in their Fender deluxe reverbs which will easily draw 400V+ on their plates.
Last edited by al112987 at Sep 13, 2009,
#35
Looks awesome :P
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#38
Looks cool, HNAD!
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