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#1
So I played a small festival yesterday, outside of course, and the whole time, I could not get over how bright, muddy, and harsh my tone was, even with treble and presence rolled back to 2 o' clock. It ruined the performance for me. I arrived at the conclusion that my amp has too much horsepower for these lower volumes. I had the volume at 3 - hardly enough to get the tubes cooking at 120 watts. I'm not an idiot to EQing. Is there a way I can cut the power on this thing to say, 60 watts without ruining the amp's character? I wanna be able to crank this MFer. The following act featured a guy who played guitar for Gregg Allman, and his tone was perfectly squared away with a Marshall JCM2000 combo and extension cabinet. Granted, he had a $130 power conditioner and a few other rack things going on, but come on. I'm fighting the urge to jump on the Marshall bandwagon after last night. The 6505's fizz is starting to piss me off.
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#2
What about a hot plate?
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#3
THD Yellow Jackets or the Hot Plate.
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#4
on some amps you can remove half the power tubes to halve the power HOWEVER! you have to remove a CORRECT PAIR and it only works on SOME AMPS

tbh there are doubts about it being 100% healthy in any case
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#5
you can do the power tubes thing with the 6505 but it sounds like utter shiz.
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#7
Can't speak to your amp but I 'think' I remember reading about people pulling the inner 2 tubes on 5150s. Remember also that you will have to cut your ohm load on cab in half too if that is possible. I run my amp at half power.

I'd hit up the Mother of all 5150/6505s Thread or the Everything Tubes thread, both of which are in the Sticky: Banned Threads and a list of good ones. Good luck.
#8
So If I'm running my cab at 16ohms I'd take it to 8? My cab switches between stereo and mono, with mono at 16ohms and stereo at 8 ohms. Would it furk up my amp since it's stereo? I'm sorry, I'm a friggin' noob at ohms and loads and such. I've played combos my entire life.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#9
I'm thinking of just going all out and A/Bing a Marshall TSL60 with my Peavey, using the Marshall for clean, crunch and rhythm and use the Peavey strictly for leads and uber br00talz.
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#10
You could snip the main leads to the power supply....or just use an axe.....

That should do it...


Seriously though, an attenuator is your best bet.
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#11
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Can't speak to your amp but I 'think' I remember reading about people pulling the inner 2 tubes on 5150s. Remember also that you will have to cut your ohm load on cab in half too if that is possible. I run my amp at half power.

I'd hit up the Mother of all 5150/6505s Thread or the Everything Tubes thread, both of which are in the Sticky: Banned Threads and a list of good ones. Good luck.


You actually have to cut the ohm load on the amp. I run my SLO with the 2 outer tubes pulled all the time. It's run like that for over 2 yrs with no problems. I use a 16 ohm cab & set the amp to 8 ohms. I called Soldano before I did it, & this is exactly how they said to do it. The tone doesn't change, it just saturates a bit earlier. Still loud as f#@k!
Also, it doesn't matter whether you pull the 2 inner or 2 outer tubes. Just don't pull 1 & 3 or 2 & 4. Has to be the 2 inner or 2 outer (1 & 4 or 2 & 3).
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#12
^Right.

I run my amp at half power so it's running at 4 ohms. I didn't 'have' to pull my outer 2 tubes but Scott Splawn told me I'd get more life out of my tubes so I pulled the outer ones and rebiased. I knew that going in so I purposely bought a 4 ohm cab.

Can't speak to the 6505 and I imagine the SLO is closer to that then my Splawn.

I 'think' with some Laney's the tube pulling is actually 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 but I could wrong about that. Irrelevant here I guess.
#13
Okay, so while we're on the subject of ohmage, can I hook my mono/stereo cab up in a stereo fashion with two speaker cables and the amp set to 8 ohms to match the cab's stereo impedance?
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#14
Just set the amp to 8 ohms and run it to the 16 ohms mono jack.
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#16
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
^Right.

I run my amp at half power so it's running at 4 ohms. I didn't 'have' to pull my outer 2 tubes but Scott Splawn told me I'd get more life out of my tubes so I pulled the outer ones and rebiased. I knew that going in so I purposely bought a 4 ohm cab.

Can't speak to the 6505 and I imagine the SLO is closer to that then my Splawn.

I 'think' with some Laney's the tube pulling is actually 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 but I could wrong about that. Irrelevant here I guess.


You may want to check w/ Scott, but you should be running an 8 ohm cab w/ your amp set to 4 ohms if you've pulled tubes. The amp needs to "see" the additional load, according to Soldano! This is one of those cases where you simply ask the amp builder if they're available to answer questions, just to be 100% certain.
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#17
Have you considered just changing amps? If you're playing outdoors and you still can't sort out the sound with the added gift of volume, then maybe you need a less powerful amp.
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#18
+1 for a new amp...6505's can have that fizz too (really, any high gain amp can easily have that problem).
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#19
Quote by riffhog
You may want to check w/ Scott, but you should be running an 8 ohm cab w/ your amp set to 4 ohms if you've pulled tubes. The amp needs to "see" the additional load, according to Soldano! This is one of those cases where you simply ask the amp builder if they're available to answer questions, just to be 100% certain.

Oh I did check with him, trust me. The amp has a Half Power switch already so I can technically run at half power without pulling tubes. He's just suggesting if you're going to run like that all the time for the long run, it's best to pull 2 tubes to save tube life. Now I've got 2 relatively fresh Mullards waiting for their day in the sun when the current 2 die out.

Knowing that going in, I got a 4 ohm cab and amp is running at 4 ohms.

Again, I can't really speak to the 6500. Kevin's comment actually has me confused now. I know he knows his stuff but that seems like a mismatch


Edit: Never mind, I think Kevin was saying that is what you do if TS pulls 2 tubes.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Sep 16, 2009,
#21
Quote by Kurapica
Have you considered just changing amps? If you're playing outdoors and you still can't sort out the sound with the added gift of volume, then maybe you need a less powerful amp.



That's kind of what I was thinking, like a 50 watt Marshall or something.
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#23
If that's the case, disengaging the Bright switch would likely help in that area. I've just never played the amp that loud in an outdoor venue, and it sounded way different than I expected. I'm used to frequencies bouncing around and filling the room. It could have been the crappy power I was getting, also. I had to adjust the ground switch to minimize the buzz.

It sounded a lot looser than normal, for some reason. Almost downright muddy. I'm contemplating using a TS9 to tighten it up like some folks here recommend. I just don't want to depend to heavily on a bunch of effects to get a good sound.

I'm not a pedal ***** by any stretch of the imagination. My signal chain goes: guitar>tuner>wah>amp.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Sep 16, 2009,
#24
Sounds like it was a combination of these few things:

- the outside venue. It can change what you normally expect from your amp. Bigtime.
- too high of a preamp setting, and too low of the poweramp volume. 6505's do not sound optimum at low or mid volume settings. Thin, shrill, and fizzy tone is common when these amps aren't pushed properly.

Try using the crunch channel instead with a lower gain setting. Then boost it with an overdrive pedal. The tone will then be more raw, less thin, clearer and tighter.
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#25
save yourself any possible screw ups in the future and just invest in an attenuator.

an attenuator cant damage your amp but in alot of cases pulling tubes will.

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#26
Quote by Van Noord
Sounds like it was a combination of these few things:

- the outside venue. It can change what you normally expect from your amp. Bigtime.
- too high of a preamp setting, and too low of the poweramp volume. 6505's do not sound optimum at low or mid volume settings. Thin, shrill, and fizzy tone is common when these amps aren't pushed properly.

Try using the crunch channel instead with a lower gain setting. Then boost it with an overdrive pedal. The tone will then be more raw, less thin, clearer and tighter.


He's right about the pre-amp setting. A professional player/friend of mine plays a 6505 all the time (his drummer used to be the drummer for Slayer), & he never turns the gain above 4-4 1/2 at stage volume. He says it lets the power stage cut through more cleanly, & notes articulate better at high volume.
I actually do the same thing on my SLO (thanks to his advice), keeping the pre-amp gain less than 5, & it sounds great.
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#27
Quote by Van Noord
Sounds like it was a combination of these few things:

- the outside venue. It can change what you normally expect from your amp. Bigtime.
- too high of a preamp setting, and too low of the poweramp volume. 6505's do not sound optimum at low or mid volume settings. Thin, shrill, and fizzy tone is common when these amps aren't pushed properly.

Try using the crunch channel instead with a lower gain setting. Then boost it with an overdrive pedal. The tone will then be more raw, less thin, clearer and tighter.


I actually was using the crunch channel, but it just sounded loose, harsh, and lacking in fullness and response. I guess because I'm used to having the Pre cranked to 10-8 when I'm practicing, and I dialed it back to 5-7 because I knew I wouldn't need that much gain at the higher volume. The problem is it's not as responsive and I have to work harder to do some solo runs with the pre dialed back. Ideally I would have liked the extra gain, but with plenty of clarity and response at a manageable volume. That's why I contemplated either a: an FJA or Voodoo mod, or b: use a marshall for less-gain oriented stuff.

Spear thanks for the advice. I dig the idea of a Hot Plate, but I'll have to save up a little bit to get one.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#29
For all of you who want an attenuator and cant afford one.. Check the link

L-PADS

Function:
An l-pad is a passive device which lets you control the output level of speakers without changing the impedance seen by the amplifier. A constant impedance is not really necessary for the amplifier but if you are using passive crossovers, a constant impedance is necessary to prevent the crossover frequency from changing.

Construction:
An L-pad consists of 2 resistors connected by a sliding terminal. One resistor is in series with the load and the other (shunt) resistor is connected in parallel with the load. The combination of the series resistance and the parallel shunt/speaker loads will always present a constant load to the amplifier. The diagram below shows the schematic symbol for an L-pad. You can also see that the 2 resistors are not the same value. The sliding terminal varies the resistance in series with the speaker and also varies the resistance in parallel with the speaker load. The position of the sliding terminal is determined by the position of the volume knob on the l-pad.


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#30
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, I know that I set my amp up to sound good at gig-level volumes. I don't change it for bedroom use.



That's what I have to do, is some EQing at gig volume. Unfortunately I live in a retirement community (I myself am far from even mid-life.) and anything above 2 would probably illicit some complaints if played for too long. That's worse than living in a normal neighborhood because at least a normal neighborhood is, by and large, at work during the day. Not my neighborhood. 98% of its residences are home all day, every day, except for the noon trip to the local senior center to catch the $3 lunch buffet.

So, we have two options here, really.

Option 1: TS808 or appropriate clone, and an attenuator, most likely a THD Hot Plate, since they're frequency compensated.

Option 2: Track down a used lower watt Marshall for clean and crunch (since the ones I've heard are remarkably clear even when crunchy), and A/B between the two. Most likely would involve getting another cab as well. From what I've heard around here, I wouldnt want to insult the Marshall by running it through Peavey Sheffield speakers.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#32
Quote by forsaknazrael
Where do you practice?


I have a room in my house designated for guitar practice. Plus its the only room in the house with the room to house a half-stack, 3 guitars and cases, and a box of accessories and gear.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#34
Quote by forsaknazrael
No, I mean, where do you practice as a band? You don't have a place where you can turn it up a bit?



I do, and I suppose I'll have to do that. My rehearsal volume is usually 2-3 on the post. In the interest of sparing everyone's ears from 3-4 hours of my guitar playing at any higher volume, I just kept it down.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#35
OP, do you run an EQ* with the 6505? It works well with those amps. Cured my VK's issues with harsh muddiness.

Disclaimer: may not work with all amps, anti-EQ people don't flame me please.
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#36
Quote by Raijouta
OP, do you run an EQ* with the 6505? It works well with those amps. Cured my VK's issues with harsh muddiness.

Disclaimer: may not work with all amps, anti-EQ people don't flame me please.



Actually I don't, but I'd entertained the idea of getting the MXR 10-band EQ. I might look into that also. Thanks for mentioning it!
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#37
Just get an attenuator.
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#38
first thing that hit me, you said your rolled the treble back to two o'clock after mentioning bright and harsh. sounds like you probably needed to roll that off a bit more, or maybe the tone knob on your guitar.

second thing that hit me, you said outside was a low volume. ive always heard/found that you are going to need more volume outside because your sound isnt getting reflected back into the room at all. playing outside in a wide open space can require using more mids to cut through (depending on style and amp of course) and also turning the power amp up more than usual (preamp gain down a bit as well).

if you think you need less volume, a good attenuator is the way to go. for some reason i just dont see that as being the issue outside
#39
I've played a ton of outdoor gigs and you certainly aren't the first musician to be surprised by the sound of your gear in an "anechoic" situation. Walls and floors boost low frequencies in a huge way and high frequencies are much more beamy without reflective surfaces. Standing in front of your amp on an outdoor stage is also a pretty poor place from which to judge your sound as I guarantee you people a few degrees off the speaker axis aren't hearing what you're hearing. You probably spent a good amount of time dialing in your tone inside but you can't expect the exact same settings to work with half the equation.. walls and ceiling missing. I'm a big believer in practicing the way you're going to perform. First, go outside with someone who can play your equipment and see how close you can get to an acceptable sound by just dialing in your amp. High frequency diffusers suggested by another poster will help disperse those frequencies and possibly an EQ can help replace the lows you're used to hearing. If you do decide on a new amp.. try that outside before you buy too. Good luck.
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