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#1
I've been doing quite a bit of research on amps, and I have a vague idea of what i want for an amp.

I have 3 bands whose sound I would like to "get the point across." They are, in order from most to least important, Metallica, AC/DC, and Black Sabbath.

I live about an hour away from Bristol, VA. So... pretty much the middle of nowhere. My price range is about $500, but can probably be stretched(probably by $150). I am not gigging, but I have almost no noise cap as I live in the middle of nowhere(with my parents, so it can't be THAT loud).

I have been looking at modeling amps, specifically, the Peavey Vypyr Tube 60. I also know that there are other amps out there that can easily achieve these sounds without modeling but better. Effects are unimportant because I know I can always get pedals later.

I am asking for so much advice because I do not want to be disappointed by my purchase a month after I make it.

One more thing, the (semi)local music store is an authorized Peavey, Bugera, and Orange dealer, so I can try those out. Another local store is an Ibanez dealer. And another local store has a bunch of odds n' ends type amps.

I have not made a big purchase from any one store(so I am not loyal to any), but I would really rather buy from the first store, because the owner is an awesome guy in general(I can probably buy other amps through him), and has a genuine love of music and helping people.

I hope I have not put you to sleep with my ramblings. Thank you for your help of my (hopefully) last question. I hope you are looking forward to pics of what I decide to get!
#2
For 500 dollars. look for a Laney AOR it will do all of that wonderfully.
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#3
Try out that Vypyr man i got a 15W model and its crazy it does all sorts of **it the Vypyr's also are generally really loud too, Ive heard good things about Bugera and Orange but no experience personally.....
I don't read, I look at words and absorb their meanings.
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Last edited by STAN_THA_MAN at Sep 14, 2009,
#4
Quote by STAN_THA_MAN
Try out that Vypyr man i got a 15W model and its crazy it does all sorts of **it the Vypyr's also are generally really loud too, Ive heard good things about Bugera and Orange but no experience personally.....


do not listen to most of what this guy says

any modelling amp MUST be at least 50 watts to be worth anything. and you will not find an orange that has enough gain for what you want for $500.

i would suggest you try looking for the Bugera however
#5
Orange Tiny Terrors do pretty awesome black sabbath, wont get to metallica on its own though; but +1 for bostonrocks. Laney AORs are awesome value.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
Schecter Blackjack C1-FR
Few Agile 8-strings
Ormsby Hypemachine 2014 otw!!

Carvin X-100B
axe-fx II

W.A musicians FTW
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Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
Last edited by Deep*Kick at Sep 14, 2009,
#6
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
do not listen to most of what this guy says

any modelling amp MUST be at least 50 watts to be worth anything. and you will not find an orange that has enough gain for what you want for $500.

i would suggest you try looking for the Bugera however


I don't get this statement.

Unless you have a tube section, increasing your wattage only gives you better headroom, so why do you insist that any modelling amp must be >50 watts to sound good?

Unless you're talking about built in effects, but from my experience with amps, built-in effects are the pooh.

Could you explain why you have recommended people to get high wattage modelling amps in 2 threads now. It makes little sense to me, unless you are referring to the modelling amp with tubes. Being digital, having higher volume doesn't magically make your tone more tubey.
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#7
Quote by ragingkitty
I don't get this statement.

Unless you have a tube section, increasing your wattage only gives you better headroom, so why do you insist that any modelling amp must be >50 watts to sound good?

Unless you're talking about built in effects, but from my experience with amps, built-in effects are the pooh.

Could you explain why you have recommended people to get high wattage modelling amps in 2 threads now. It makes little sense to me, unless you are referring to the modelling amp with tubes. Being digital, having higher volume doesn't magically make your tone more tubey.



it gives it the extra punch. the extra volume adds a bit more bottom end to help get rid of that "digital" sound. a 15 watt modeler will always sound bad. no matter what it is. I usually don't recommend modelling amps EVER because i don't really like them, but if someone is looking for one, i will speak from experience when i say that the added volume adds more punch. it just sounds better it won't sound any "sweeter" or smoother, like you get from a tube amp, but it adds bottom end. not to mention that if it's a combo amp, an amp with more wattage will usually have a much larger cab, giving it a bigger sound
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 14, 2009,
#8
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
it gives it the extra punch. the extra volume adds a bit more bottom end to help get rid of that "digital" sound. a 15 watt modeler will always sound bad. no matter what it is. I usually don't recommend modelling amps EVER because i don't really like them, but if someone is looking for one, i will speak from experience when i say that the added volume adds more punch. it just sounds better it won't sound any "sweeter" or smoother, like you get from a tube amp, but it adds bottom end. not to mention that if it's a combo amp, an amp with more wattage will usually have a much larger cab, giving it a bigger sound
Quote by Marty Friedman
Because I bend in such an unorthodox fashion; the notes kinda slide up and slide down...
#9
U can get a used Peavey Classic for that price i believe, they are great, or a Peavey Windsor Head and a cab for around $450
Gear
Guitars
- Ibanez GRX20
- Austin SG
- Alveraz Artist Acoustic Electric
Amps
- Kustom 15W
- Peavey Vypyr 75W
- Monitor speaker!
Effects
- Behringer V-Amp Multi-effects
- Dunlop Cry Baby Wah
- Tubescreamer
- Sampera I
#12
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
it gives it the extra punch. the extra volume adds a bit more bottom end to help get rid of that "digital" sound. a 15 watt modeler will always sound bad. no matter what it is. I usually don't recommend modelling amps EVER because i don't really like them, but if someone is looking for one, i will speak from experience when i say that the added volume adds more punch. it just sounds better it won't sound any "sweeter" or smoother, like you get from a tube amp, but it adds bottom end. not to mention that if it's a combo amp, an amp with more wattage will usually have a much larger cab, giving it a bigger sound


As far as I can tell, what you've described is having more wattage for more headroom, so you can crank your amp more so it can push more air.

Nonetheless, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

IMO, the marginal cost of having a higher wattage modelling amp sorely outweighs the marginal benefits. I'm with the others in this respect, a higher wattage modeller is merely louder crap.
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#13
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
what you don't believe me? next time you're at Long and McQuade, test it out and see if i'm wrong.
I believe that you believe yourself.
Quote by Marty Friedman
Because I bend in such an unorthodox fashion; the notes kinda slide up and slide down...
#14
Save up a bit more and get a Mesa Mark III. For some reason, they are the cheapest of the Mark series yet I like them the most.
#15
Quote by ch0
I believe that you believe yourself.



i can guarantee you as someone who, when i was a starting guitarist owned a 15 watt spider 2, but quickly changed it to a 75 watt spider 2. the difference is massive. go and try it out yourself if you don't ****ing believe me. i hope you realize that even the tiniest changes can affect tone greatly. ask Eric Johnson. he believes the positioning of the CABLES makes a huge difference in the sound, and if he is clearly hearing the difference, who are you to tell him that there is no difference.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#16
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
i can guarantee you as someone who, when i was a starting guitarist owned a 15 watt spider 2, but quickly changed it to a 75 watt spider 2. the difference is massive. go and try it out yourself if you don't ****ing believe me. i hope you realize that even the tiniest changes can affect tone greatly. ask Eric Johnson. he believes the positioning of the CABLES makes a huge difference in the sound, and if he is clearly hearing the difference, who are you to tell him that there is no difference.

It's not possible to tell the difference with cables. But amps are a different story and you are right about going from 15 to 75 watts. Get a blues junior though.
Last edited by lmihay at Sep 15, 2009,
#17
Quote by lmihay
Because it's not possible to tell the difference with cables. But amps is a different story and you are right about going from 15 to 75 watts.



yes it is. cables greatly affect tone. the plating on the connectors affects tone. this is why the idea of cable "transparency" is impossible
#19
Quote by lmihay
Can you tell the difference between monster and planet waves?


yes because they aren't made of the same materials. if one has a gold plated connector and another one is silver plated, your tone will be noticeably different
#20
You are full of **** man. My planet waves and monster both have gold connectors. But you can't tell the difference and one is almost twice the price. But whatever it really doesn't have to do with the topic. Maybe I should report the post. lol And you said cable placement earlier. No **** gold and silver sound different.
Last edited by lmihay at Sep 15, 2009,
#21
Quote by lmihay
You are full of **** man. My planet waves and monster both have gold connectors. But you can't tell the difference and one is almost twice the price. But whatever it really doesn't have to do with the topic. Maybe I should report the post. lol And you said cable placement earlier. No **** gold and silver sound different.



the **** are you on about? no **** you're not going to hear a difference if they have the same ****ing materials you asshole. go ahead and report it. have fun. you still mad that i reported a clearly out of place thread in the pit? you dont go there often do you

and if one is so much more expensive and you don't hear a difference then you have a **** ear for tone, or have crap equipment.

as for cable placement, if eric johnson claims to hear a difference then HE HEARS A DIFFERENCE. take it up with him, not me.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#22
I completely disagree with just about everything Lt Shinysides has said on in this thread, except about cables. Sorry mate.

And WTF does Eric Johnson have to do with anything? We're not recommending an amp to Eric Johnson.
Last edited by slickerthnsleek at Sep 15, 2009,
#23
Quote by slickerthnsleek
I completely disagree with just about everything Lt Shinysides has said on in this thread, except about cables. Sorry mate.



test it yourself, and then come back. i've experienced it personally. i am talking only from personal experience
#25
peavey classic 30
blackstar ht-5

if u go modelling go for the vox vt15/30 (its a hybrid amp)
Guitars
Fender American Standard Strat 2008
Burny late 1980's Super Grade RLG-70 Les Paul
Sterling by Musicman JP50
Fender Classic Series 60's tele
Yamaha FS720S
Amp
Roland Microcube
Fender Blues Junior III Humholdt
#26
Quote by slickerthnsleek
I completely disagree with just about everything Lt Shinysides has said on in this thread, except about cables. Sorry mate.

And WTF does Eric Johnson have to do with anything? We're not recommending an amp to Eric Johnson.


eric johnson was used as an example. he is someone who claims to be able to hear the affect that tiny changes have on his sound. thats "what the fuck" he has to do with it ("It" being my other discussion of modelling amps sounding best if they're over 50 watts). some people have a very good ear for tone, i pride myself on being one of those people, and if you CAN'T hear the difference, your ear for tone is simply not as well developed yet, it's not a goddamn big deal.

there IS a difference, and i hear it, i can hear it any time someone plugs in a 15 watt line 6 spider next to a 50 watt, and the reason being?... the tone is different.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#27
Are you on your period mate? Seriously, I've never seen someone get so fired up over the tone of modeling amps. And I'm willing to bet TS hasn't been playing quite as long as EJ and doesn't have as developed an ear as he does. Don't be such a f@#%ing snob, because I don't agree with you doesn't mean my ear for tone isn't as good as yours.

There's nothing wrong with smaller modelers. In fact, they make great practice amps, they're great for LOW volume. For the price of a higher wattage modeler you have a vast array of amps to choose from, you can go tube, you can start looking at Vettas and Flextones.
#28
Quote by slickerthnsleek
Are you on your period mate? Seriously, I've never seen someone get so fired up over the tone of modeling amps. And I'm willing to bet TS hasn't been playing quite as long as EJ and doesn't have as developed an ear as he does. Don't be such a f@#%ing snob, because I don't agree with you doesn't mean my ear for tone isn't as good as yours.

There's nothing wrong with smaller modelers. In fact, they make great practice amps, they're great for LOW volume. For the price of a higher wattage modeler you have a vast array of amps to choose from, you can go tube, you can start looking at Vettas and Flextones.


i've just had an entire goddamn thread jump down my throat because i claim to be able to hear a difference in tone between a 15 watt amp, and an amp more than 3x bigger than that. is that such a ridiculous goddamn claim? this forum is for helping people get the best of their money, im not being a snob, im telling TS what i have to offer based on my experience. a line 6 spider 3 75 watt will cost you $350 you CANNOT get anywhere near a Vetta for that price.

im not getting fired up over the tone, im getting fired up over people telling me im flat out wrong and "full of ****" based on a subjective matter of something i can hear.

and lastly, if you don't hear what i hear, that probably is a good indication that my ear is a bit more developed. that's not even bragging, that's just something that comes along from playing a long time.
#29
I didn't jump down your throat, I didn't say you were flat out wrong, I just didn't agree with you. There ARE differences in tone between 15-75 watt modelers, mostly dependent on volume you're playing at. I thought it was just rude how you shot that first guy down when I thought his suggestion was perfectly acceptable. And recommending a higher wattage modeling amp (Spiders, Vypyrs, etc) on UG is basically inviting people to jump down your throat.

And lastly, if you don't hear what I hear, that's probably a good indication that we're both different and hear different things. You have no idea how long I've been playing, how developed my ears are or how picky I am about tone, so STFU.
Last edited by slickerthnsleek at Sep 15, 2009,
#30
Quote by slickerthnsleek
I didn't jump down your throat, I didn't say you were flat out wrong, I just didn't agree with you. There ARE differences in tone between 15-75 watt modelers, mostly dependent on volume you're playing at. I thought it was just rude how you shot that first guy down when I thought his suggestion was perfectly acceptable. And recommending a higher wattage modeling amp on UG is basically inviting people to jump down your throat.

And lastly, if you don't hear what I hear, that's probably a good indication that we're both different and hear different things. You have no idea how long I've been playing, how developed my ears are or how picky I am about tone, so STFU.


doesn't really matter how long you've been playing to be perfectly honest with you. some people are born with perfect pitch and will be able to pick up on TINY differences without even a days playing experience. being picky about tone doesn't mean you're able to hear small details as well as others. this isn't like playing world of war craft, you don't level up with every new song you learn, it's something that's just born into you.


however, im done. if people don't want to hear opinions, thats fine. take from it what you will
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#31
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
and lastly, if you don't hear what i hear, that probably is a good indication that my ear is a bit more developed. that's not even bragging, that's just something that comes along from playing a long time.


Right. That's a whole study in contradiction right there.

I've never played WoW, I wouldn't know. There's no definitive way to objectively measure how good someones ear is, although I did get a near perfect mark in Aural and Performance for Music in the HSC (last year of high school in Australia).

And what I meant by picky about tone, is that if someone fiddles with my EQ just a little bit, I can tell and it bugs me, because I can hear the little differences you're priding yourself on being the expert about. I'm not saying I've got the best ear ever, because I don't know that. I'm saying that you shouldn't judge my hearing (or anyone elses) and automatically assume that yours is superior.
#32
Quote by slickerthnsleek
Right. That's a whole study in contradiction right there.

I've never played WoW, I wouldn't know. There's no definitive way to objectively measure how good someones ear is, although I did get a near perfect mark in Aural and Performance for Music in the HSC (last year of high school in Australia).

And what I meant by picky about tone, is that if someone fiddles with my EQ just a little bit, I can tell and it bugs me, because I can hear the little differences you're priding yourself on being the expert about. I'm not saying I've got the best ear ever, because I don't know that. I'm saying that you shouldn't judge my hearing (or anyone elses) and automatically assume that yours is superior.



there is a difference between superiority, and practice. i've been playing since i was 5. thats almost 14 years, i've had a lot of practice with this whole "tone" thing. im not about to get into a ****ing dick measuring contest with some kid i'll never meet, over the subjective matter of a tone i can clearly hear the difference in, when i CAME here to help a dude choose an amp. i truly do not give a fuck. if i hear it, i hear it. if you don't hear it, i don't care because im the one who's listening.

Quote by lmihay
You are full of **** man. My planet waves and monster both have gold connectors. But you can't tell the difference and one is almost twice the price. But whatever it really doesn't have to do with the topic. Maybe I should report the post. lol And you said cable placement earlier. No **** gold and silver sound different.


im not even going to start on you. that's just plain stupidity.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#33
I thought you just said how long you've been playing didn't matter when it comes to hearing things? Maybe you should have some humility and just consider for half a second that maybe you're the one who isn't hearing something. Not saying that's the case, but it's something to think about.
Last edited by slickerthnsleek at Sep 15, 2009,
#34
Quote by slickerthnsleek
I thought you just said how long you've been playing didn't matter when it comes to hearing things? Maybe you should have some humility and just consider for half a second that maybe you're the one who isn't hearing something.


i said years of playing doesn't matter when it comes to what you call "superiority" meaning someone hears things better and clearer, but that is not what im talking about when i talk about practice. we aren't talking about perfect pitch here, being able to tell notes in your head, im talking about the simple goddamn matter of knowing the difference between a low power amp and i high powered one. perhaps "tone" was a poor choice of words, but i have no other way to describe it. if i'm hearing it, im hearing it. i can't even ****ing believe this. what do i need to mathematically prove that i hear the difference between one amp, and another with less than a third of the wattage? this is ****ing grade school man.

I'm done with this. you mother ****ers can help yourselves out. if you come here and ask for help, why reject the answers?


EDIT: wait wtf?! you're not even TS! what the hell am i talking to you for?! this entire goddamn time i thought i was talking to TS with a problem with my answer, but you're just some random punk. bugger off, i've got nothing to say to you. im not hear to help you out, nor am i hear to even talk with you, i couldn't care less about your opinions since they are in absolutely no way relevant to any advice i gave TS, i didn't come here giving YOU amp help.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 15, 2009,
#36
Quote by slickerthnsleek
That's okay, I've already met my daily quota of morons I need to argue with.
That's a shame. I was really enjoying reading Shinyside's self-indulgent rebuts.
Quote by Marty Friedman
Because I bend in such an unorthodox fashion; the notes kinda slide up and slide down...
#37
That was surprisingly entertaining... I guess I haven't heard anything that will turn me away from a Vypyr Tube 60, but I will look at some of the other amps.
#38
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
a line 6 spider 3 75 watt will cost you $350 you CANNOT get anywhere near a Vetta for that price.

Tell that to Matrix Claw.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
Gear
Schecter Blackjack C1-FR
Few Agile 8-strings
Ormsby Hypemachine 2014 otw!!

Carvin X-100B
axe-fx II

W.A musicians FTW
Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
#39
Quote by pokeatthedevil
That was surprisingly entertaining... I guess I haven't heard anything that will turn me away from a Vypyr Tube 60, but I will look at some of the other amps.


At least the TS got some entertainment factor out of this.

Honestly, just take a Vox Valvetronix, Spider Valve, Vypyr Tube and whatever other amp you want to consider.

Then put them next to each other.

Test them out extensively.

Pick the one you like.
Quote by Blompcube
it's so cool to hate Gibson, even the federal Department of Justice hates them.

( )( )
( . .) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
C('')('') signature to help him gain world domination.
#40
I could get a used flextone for $300. I could also get a $600 Vetta off ebay an add a $200 cab(a little too expensive, but I was just thinking).

I cannot try out a flextone at a local music store, would it be like Line 6's mid range modeling amp?
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