Page 1 of 2
#1
Hi guys, I'm looking for a good tube preamp pedal, I will be using then in the send/return of lots of different amps during the tour of my band.


I heard about:
EBS Valvedrive
Mesa V Twin
Seymour Duncan Twin Tube
Hughes & Kettner Tubeman


What pedal is better? Why?
Is any of these pedals overpriced?

I play in general pop rock, I also have a MI Audio Crunch Box.
I use some modulation, do this pedals have send/return?


Thanks in advance!
#2
If you guys know about other pedals or have another opinions feel free to tell me hehehe
#3
Well, I've done some searching and I noticed the only one here that may serve me well is the H&K Tubeman, cuz I want clean channel too.
You guys have options on other pedal preamps or even rack preamps that can do great both clean and lead sounds?
Thanks
#4
most pre's are two or more channel. i own an engl e530 and it does have a nice clean channel - never tried it with pedals in front of it though. The lead channel is voiced more for high gain stuff but it is usable at lower gain. the 4 tone pots (bass low mid high mid treb) are a plus.
The v twin will also do clean and lead. takes some fiddling because there are 3 different "channels" and only 2 pedals but its possible. never heard one though.
#5
How do I plug my pedal pre amp into the send/return of an amp so I ignore the original pre? Where do I plug my guitar? Thanks
#6
Quote by GuitarUser
How do I plug my pedal pre amp into the send/return of an amp so I ignore the original pre? Where do I plug my guitar? Thanks


im gonna take a shot in the dark here. i THINK if ur turn down ur preamp gain all the way, and plug ur guitar into the input of the preamp pedal and send the output into the fx loop return, it MIGHT work... otherwise it might require rewiring the amp

but i would get this confirmed before u blow something up....theres my disclaimer.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#7
I thought an effects loop was for putting effects between the preamp and the power amp, not bypassing the preamp. I'm not sure if it's possible.
#8
but if the preamp isnt putting out any signal, all ull be getting is the signal from the return effects loop, meaning ur pedals (which is a preamp anyway)...again....this is kinda all theory.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#9
@Cholas I'm pretty sure this can be done...

@Strangenameguy Ye man, I think it might be the best way, altough I never heard of having to turn the gain knob to zero... Thanks.
#10
have the seymour twin tube classic and the english muff'n.
also have a halfler t3, digitech 2112, and a bazillion pedals.
have played the mesa v-twin.

the duncan twin tube gain channel adds a ton of bass as you turn the gain from 50% to 100%. treble control does almost nothing. I keep the bass control in the off position.
It's a nice tube preamp... but I like my english muff'n a lot more.
#11
There's also the Blackstar HT-Dual if you want something that can give you cleans. I have no experience with the pedal but the preamp in the HT-5 is supposed to be identical to the HT-Dual.
Quote by Marty Friedman
Because I bend in such an unorthodox fashion; the notes kinda slide up and slide down...
#12
Quote by mistermikev
have the seymour twin tube classic and the english muff'n.
also have a halfler t3, digitech 2112, and a bazillion pedals.
have played the mesa v-twin.

the duncan twin tube gain channel adds a ton of bass as you turn the gain from 50% to 100%. treble control does almost nothing. I keep the bass control in the off position.
It's a nice tube preamp... but I like my english muff'n a lot more.


Eh, I bought an English Muff'n around a year ago and thought it was just okay. It can get a decent British tone, much better than others I played, but I still prefer the Radial Hot British. I returned the Muff'n after 2 weeks and bought a Zendrive and Mosferatu a few months later.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#13
for clarification, you can go from the pedal output to the fx loop return. i do this some times. the pre amp pedal will have a power amp out. go from here to the fx loop return. then only the master volume and presence should work on the amp. (except with bugeras, nothing works when you bypass the pre on a bugera. you need to use the volume on the pedal to control volume.)
#14
@ch0
Man I really like this pedal!
I'm thinking of the amd ss-20 but this pedal is much cheaper and seem to be high quality too..

@duggan_nugget so I dont need to turn anything down on the amp? thanks a lot man
Last edited by GuitarUser at Sep 21, 2009,
#15
Quote by mmolteratx
Eh, I bought an English Muff'n around a year ago and thought it was just okay. It can get a decent British tone, much better than others I played, but I still prefer the Radial Hot British. I returned the Muff'n after 2 weeks and bought a Zendrive and Mosferatu a few months later.


I guess it's no surprise I love it for that med drive brit sound.

Just built a zendrive clone... found myself thinking - what is all the fuss about? I think a cjod modded ts808 clone is so much better.

just goes to show - one mans trash is another mans treasure.


funny, you should check this thread... these guys rev engineered both the zen drive and mosferatu... according to them they are almost identical.
http://www.freestompboxes.org/search.php?keywords=mosferatu&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
Last edited by mistermikev at Sep 21, 2009,
#16
Quote by mistermikev
I guess it's no surprise I love it for that med drive brit sound.

Just built a zendrive clone... found myself thinking - what is all the fuss about? I think a cjod modded ts808 clone is so much better.

just goes to show - one mans trash is another mans treasure.


What chip did you use? The one listed on all the online schematics is wrong and sounds completely different.

Agreed to the bold. I thought the Muff'n was a good pedal. I just think it should be cheaper and it wasn't exactly my kind of British sound. It was much brighter than I would have liked.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#17
"The Mosferatu is a AMZ SoS-clone with a few altered values and MOSFETS instead of the diodes. The PCB for the Mosfertau and the part layout is the same on the ZD. I think the only difference between those two is the clipping ..."

(from the link on my prev post)

afa chip it was some obscure jobby... ad712? something like that.
#18
Yea, the Mosferatu and Zendrive are extremely similar circuits. I was talking to Alf a few weeks ago and he said that the chip used in all of the clones doesn't sound anything like the chip he uses. Scott Lerner agreed.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#19
so wait, my idea actually works? would this work using any od/distortion pedal right into the effects loop return? or does it have to be actual preamp pedal?
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#21
Quote by mmolteratx
Yea, the Mosferatu and Zendrive are extremely similar circuits. I was talking to Alf a few weeks ago and he said that the chip used in all of the clones doesn't sound anything like the chip he uses. Scott Lerner agreed.


what chip is that?
#22
Quote by mistermikev
what chip is that?


He wouldn't tell me. He just said that it's a relatively common chip but that no one's gotten it right so far.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#23
of course he wouldn't! (I was joking when I asked)

wouldn't surprise me if the chip made a big dif... then again it wouldn't surprise me if that's just 'pillow talk', I mean what's the guy gonna say right?

btw... what kind of amp were you playing the muff'n thru?
honestly not sure I'd have paid full pop for one either - I paid $100. Considering the duncan twin tube is $220 new tho... I'd still buy the muff'n over it.

so the radial that's got one tube? does it get a lot of drive then? I mean... when you've got fifty some pedals... there's always room for one more!
Last edited by mistermikev at Sep 21, 2009,
#24
Blackstar Dist-X is amazing, try it out if you can. Out of the ones you mentioned, the Mesa V-Twin is probably the best. The English Muff'n is pretty awesome too.
#25
i like my tonebone hot british
Member of the Schecter Hellraisers
Gear:
Esp Ltd KH-603, Schecter c-1+ and Epiphone Les Pauls
Carvin amps, Sperzel Trim-Lok, Emg active pickups only, Tonepros bridges.
#26
I'd get a rack mount pre- amp. They have better routing and effects loop switching options. They're typically the best a company has to offer.
#27
@slickerthnsleek I need clean channel too... I'm looking for one that is not pricey and has good tones...

@BobDetroit I'm taking notes, and taking my conclusions of what is best for me... racks are pricey, but I understand they are more quality.
#28
i dont mean to take over this thread, but can someone confirm that going from a pedal to fx loop return with preamp off doesnt hurt the amp and actually works?

im going to build a mesa pedal and was wondering if i can just use it as the preamp
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#29
Yes, it will work. There will be no harm. I run my Zendrive straight into my power amp alot.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#30
Quote by GuitarUser

I'm thinking of the amt ss-20 but this pedal is much cheaper and seem to be high quality too..

OMG THIS!!

i have a thread about it and i want to get one but its too expensive for me.
PSN USERNAME: MetuulGuitarist7
STEAM:MetuulGuitarist7
Origin:MetuulGuitarist7
feel free to add me
#31
Quote by mistermikev
of course he wouldn't! (I was joking when I asked)

wouldn't surprise me if the chip made a big dif... then again it wouldn't surprise me if that's just 'pillow talk', I mean what's the guy gonna say right?

btw... what kind of amp were you playing the muff'n thru?
honestly not sure I'd have paid full pop for one either - I paid $100. Considering the duncan twin tube is $220 new tho... I'd still buy the muff'n over it.

so the radial that's got one tube? does it get a lot of drive then? I mean... when you've got fifty some pedals... there's always room for one more!


Yes, it is a tube pedal and can get plenty of saturation. It's an awesome pedal. I tried the Muff'n through a DeVille, a JCM800, a vintage Plexi, a reissue Plexi and a Fuchs ODS30. It sounded the best through the old Plexi and by far the worst on the DeVille, which is what I have. I'd probably recommend it though if you can get a good deal and you have a very warm amp.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#32
Quote by mmolteratx
Yes, it will work. There will be no harm. I run my Zendrive straight into my power amp alot.


just a power amp? im talking about an fx loop in an amp circuit. i dont know the complexities of an amp. weird stuff can hurt it, so i just wana make sure. thanks though.
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#33
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
just a power amp? im talking about an fx loop in an amp circuit. i dont know the complexities of an amp. weird stuff can hurt it, so i just wana make sure. thanks though.


I meant through the power amp in on my DeVille.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#34
Quote by mmolteratx
I meant through the power amp in on my DeVille.


do u do it through the fx loop or is it like hard wired in there? im a complete noob when it comes to amp electronics, and even worse when u its come to fx loops...
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#35
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
do u do it through the fx loop or is it like hard wired in there? im a complete noob when it comes to amp electronics, and even worse when u its come to fx loops...


Yea, it's the FX loop return.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#36
Quote by mmolteratx
Yea, it's the FX loop return.


time to start building my dr boogey .. thanks!
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
#37
Quote by xxunder-takerxx
time to start building my dr boogey .. thanks!


good luck!
tell us when its finished!
#38
Quote by mmolteratx
Yes, it is a tube pedal and can get plenty of saturation. It's an awesome pedal. I tried the Muff'n through a DeVille, a JCM800, a vintage Plexi, a reissue Plexi and a Fuchs ODS30. It sounded the best through the old Plexi and by far the worst on the DeVille, which is what I have. I'd probably recommend it though if you can get a good deal and you have a very warm amp.



well if that doesn't qualify as a thorough test I don't know what would!

You know, I just re-tried my seymour twin tube classic thru my new peavey classic 30 and I have to say - it's a different animal. I may end up keeping it after all. With the gain all up on lead chnl it squeels like a pig... but danged if it doesn't sound pretty baddass while you aren't stopping!

still today I tried out a deisel... wow... afa metal sound that's about as good as it gets... but $4500 and what a one trick pony... no clean/mild tones at all IMO. Course I could only play channel 4 so I'm not sure if 1 2 or 3 are voiced dif... hope so!
#39
Quote by mmolteratx
Yea, it's the FX loop return.


Do you run more pedals though this as well? I'm thinking of getting a Tech 21 Sansamp, but I will need wah, delay, a couple other effects. I assume it's fine but not plugging into the amp input scares me
I have a huge fear if rays.
#40
Quote by ChrisBW
Do you run more pedals though this as well? I'm thinking of getting a Tech 21 Sansamp, but I will need wah, delay, a couple other effects. I assume it's fine but not plugging into the amp input scares me


well think about it, all ur preamp is really doing, is eqing and adding gain. when it hits the fx loop, and then the power amp, its still a very small signal, similar to one u get out of a pedal. the power amp is the part that really amplifies the signal and is pushed the hardest. all ur doing is bypassing the preamp. with all that said, sure it works, but does it damage anything?
Mesa F-30 - 1x12 V30
PRS SE Custom 24 (GFS Crunchy PATs)
PRS SE Singlecut (Evo/Air Norton)
1989 Starforce (GFS PowerRails)
Morley Tremonti Power Wah, TS7 (808-Mod), Pitchblack, Boss DD-3, DE FnC
Page 1 of 2