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#1
Should we allow freedom of speech?

And whilst pretty much almost everyone here will initially say 'yes', there are a lot of people lying to themselves. Do you think freedom of speech can be abused? Then you're not for freedom of speech. Do you think freedom of speech should be limited, including banning hateful commentary, bigotry, religious extremism in certain contexts? Then you are not for freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. This is tautologous, but so many people seem to forget that. It's freedom to say whatever you what without any placed limits.

Regardless, now we've cleared this up, are we for freedom of speech?
#2
Not on youtube.
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#4
tl;dr


seriously.

There's flaws in everything we do. People just need to make the best of it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LYZyCdp.gif[/img]


Quote by CrossBack7
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#5
No free speech for caigo. Remove your sig.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#6
censorship is good, but only if I am the state.
Quote by icaneatcatfood
On second thought, **** tuning forks. You best be carrying around a grand piano that was tuned by an Italian
#7
speech is just that, voicing an opinion. and everyone should be able to do that, yes.

edit: also, poll needed.
#9
I'm for it as long as everyone gets a say and not just certain groups are allowed to say what they like whilst others are silenced
#10
p.s. Craigo, i'd think it very intersting if you went on a predominantly Chinese forum and asked this same question. We Americans tend to like our "freedom of speech", insomuch that it becomes out stock answer to say yes regarding to questions about it, but studies show that Chinese actually do want a degree of censorship, particularly on the internet.
Quote by icaneatcatfood
On second thought, **** tuning forks. You best be carrying around a grand piano that was tuned by an Italian
#11
Quote by Craigo
Should we allow freedom of speech?


Yes

And whilst pretty much almost everyone here will initially say 'yes', there are a lot of people lying to themselves. Do you think freedom of speech can be abused? Then you're not for freedom of speech. Do you think freedom of speech should be limited, including banning hateful commentary, bigotry, religious extremism in certain contexts? Then you are not for freedom of speech.


I approve of all of those things as long as people are also allowed the freedom to provide counter arguments.

Regardless, now we've cleared this up, are we for freedom of speech?


Yes, disallowing freedom of speech is moronic. Also everyone is going to have different opinions on what should and shouldn't be censored so trying to get a general consensus is going to be difficult. Also if you could find a consensus it might lead to some legitimate viewpoints being ignored (I can provide examples if anyone wants but I don't want to bring this thread off topic)
.
#13
No, speech can cause just as much harm as physical actions.

the people FOR freedom of speech, are you for a similar style freedom of expression/action?
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#14
Quote by Gmp
edit: also, poll needed.

No. That's why I asked people to read the OP. I'm sure there's people who think the Westboro Baptist Church shouldn't be allowed to express their views and protest yet still claim to be for freedom of speech.
Quote by Laces Out Danny
p.s. Craigo, i'd think it very intersting if you went on a predominantly Chinese forum and asked this same question. We Americans tend to like our "freedom of speech", insomuch that it becomes out stock answer to say yes regarding to questions about it, but studies show that Chinese actually do want a degree of censorship, particularly on the internet.

Actually, most people do. There's an American tradition that breaks that trend and it's a pretty cool one.
#15
Will go die painfully now.


HHHHNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote by CrossBack7
Momie's like not even a real person, just an asian, lesbian spirit.
#17
Nope. If you aren't like me, then you are WRONG
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#18
Quote by Craigo
...because this is insightful and actually tells us something.

I can't tell if you're joking or not.


A knife is but a tool until you stab someone with it. then it's a weapon.
people can abuse any freedom they're given, so I say freedom of speach stays.
#19
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Nthe people FOR freedom of speech, are you for a similar style freedom of expression/action?


Expression, yes. Action.....depends what you mean by 'action'
.
#20
Quote by Ur all $h1t
No free speech for caigo. Remove your sig.

What's wrong Paddywaddywikkeywoo?

pretentious small text, right justified signature
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#22
Freedom of speech is already limited anyway.

You can't just randomly start yelling abuse at anyone without consequences. You can't talk bad stuff about someone in order to ruin their chances at anything, or spread rumours.

You aren't even allowed to post a picture of a delicious green fruit on the internet


Quote by Våd Hamster
Find a dice and assign a number to each girl. Throw the dice.


The number you hope for at the moment you throw the dice, is the one you'll want to keep.
#23
Quote by Nietsche
Expression, yes. Action.....depends what you mean by 'action'

to be able to do anything with no restrictions.

expression is just an extension of speach that involves actions.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#25
Quote by thanksgiving
Freedom of speech is already limited anyway.

You can't just randomly start yelling abuse at anyone without consequences. You can't talk bad stuff about someone in order to ruin their chances at anything, or spread rumours.

You aren't even allowed to post a picture of a delicious green fruit on the internet


In the case of the pear, the freedom of speech is interfering with the site owners to do as they wish with their property (Not that I necessarily agree with property rights, just puttin it out their)

However, in the case of rumours etc I don't think people have the right to be successful based on their reputation etc and if someone slanders them, well, it's just too bad.

Quote by lemoninfluence
to be able to do anything with no restrictions.

expression is just an extension of speach that involves actions.


Then yes, as long as you don't cause harm to someone who didn't consent to be harmed
.
Last edited by Nietsche at Sep 16, 2009,
#26
Quote by Lemoninfluence
to be able to do anything with no restrictions.

expression is just an extension of speach that involves actions.

Your rights end where you violate the rights of another. You have the right to speak freely about whatever, till you start to use that free speech to defame another person. Free speech does not extend to violating the rights of others.
The same goes for freedom of action, you have the right to drink as much alcohol as you want, until you start to hurt other people.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#27
I honestly dont think the concept of free speech has ever really existed. To me free speech would mean everyone has an equal chance to have their opinion heard, this I am for. However on a large scale, in modern times at least, this has never happened. Whoever has the money to hire people to bring up the argument to the people in power (forget what Americans call this, since it has a special name over there), or whoever controls the news channels and such will always get the most say on what is heard the most. Freedom of speech would mean everyone has as much of an opportunity to be heard as everyone else does.
#28
As long as I have the right to run out and call some dude "hey bitch tittie sprinklers", live, on TV, I'm cool with it.
#29
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Your rights end where you violate the rights of another. You have the right to speak freely about whatever, till you start to use that free speech to defame another person. Free speech does not extend to violating the rights of others.
The same goes for freedom of action, you have the right to drink as much alcohol as you want, until you start to hurt other people.


That's the current model.

but that's not the model being proposed in this thread.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#30
I'm in for freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean that I will listen to your bull****
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#31
Quote by thanksgiving
Freedom of speech is already limited anyway.

You can't just randomly start yelling abuse at anyone without consequences. You can't talk bad stuff about someone in order to ruin their chances at anything, or spread rumours.

You aren't even allowed to post a picture of a delicious green fruit on the internet

This is a pretty good point actually. It comes up in the Religion thread now and again; there's no real freedom in whether or not you should worship God or not because if you don't he'll send you to hell. There's no freedom there much like you can't say a man at gunpoint has the freedom he disobey his aggressor. A country which strong legal freedom of speech could be very much limited to social reasons (for example, an atheist in a very religious house hold may carry on to pretend to be religious).

When I say freedom of speech though I'm talking about what the state limits. If the modship constituted as a Government, then here we have don't have freedom of speech. But it's not; this is a private website and you obey the rules of the forum much like you obey the rules of someone else's house. Nothing wrong in that.
#32
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Your rights end where you violate the rights of another. You have the right to speak freely about whatever, till you start to use that free speech to defame another person. Free speech does not extend to violating the rights of others.


Again, having a good reputation is not a right.
.
#33
Quote by Lemoninfluence
to be able to do anything with no restrictions.

expression is just an extension of speach that involves actions.

I'm all for Mill's harm principle (as Paddy laid out) for action, however I am definitely more lee way towards no restrictions with freedom of expression.
#34
Quote by Feel bad inc.
I honestly dont think the concept of free speech has ever really existed. To me free speech would mean everyone has an equal chance to have their opinion heard, this I am for.

That is not freedom of speech.
#35
Anyone calling me Paddywaddywikkeywoo will be obliged to make me food and allow me to pout my penis in them...
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#36
Quote by Craigo

When I say freedom of speech though I'm talking about what the state limits. If the modship constituted as a Government, then here we have don't have freedom of speech. But it's not; this is a private website and you obey the rules of the forum much like you obey the rules of someone else's house. Nothing wrong in that.

I still say we should have a vote about it


Quote by Våd Hamster
Find a dice and assign a number to each girl. Throw the dice.


The number you hope for at the moment you throw the dice, is the one you'll want to keep.
#38
Quote by Feel bad inc.
I honestly dont think the concept of free speech has ever really existed. To me free speech would mean everyone has an equal chance to have their opinion heard, this I am for. However on a large scale, in modern times at least, this has never happened. Whoever has the money to hire people to bring up the argument to the people in power (forget what Americans call this, since it has a special name over there), or whoever controls the news channels and such will always get the most say on what is heard the most. Freedom of speech would mean everyone has as much of an opportunity to be heard as everyone else does.

Your definition of freedom of speech is rather strange. Those 3 words in no way suggest that people should have an equal chance of being heard.

Also, like Paddywaddywikkeywoo said, freedom of speech does not allow you to violate other peoples rights. It ends there. (I'm all for it if it doesn't violate other peoples rights)
Last edited by Regression at Sep 16, 2009,
#39
Quote by CoreysMonster
I can't tell if you're joking or not.


A knife is but a tool until you stab someone with it. then it's a weapon.
people can abuse any freedom they're given, so I say freedom of speach stays.



I agree with this statement, that's a good way of putting it.

On the other hand though, something unsettles me about hate speech being allowed. I'm not quite sure where the line is.
#40
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
On the other hand though, something unsettles me about hate speech being allowed. I'm not quite sure where the line is.

Thing is, there are people who believe that your opinions are immoral and detrimental to society much as you see them. It should be allowed on principle.
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