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#1
Don't push me to the R&P thread. They don't listen over there.

Has Pascal's wager ever recurred to anyone in the pit?

If one ties Pascal's wager in with the fact that there are only 2 prominent world-views with an actual heaven and hell then aren't there only two logical options?

I'm arguing that the only two logical world-views in existence are Islam and Christianity.


Discuss?


edit:

Pascal's wager is the philosophy that states if there is no god then there is no negative outcome and everyone wins. But on the flip side if there is a god then everyone who believes anything but the correct religion/philosophy goes to hell.

The only argument to Pascal's wager is that there are so many religions that it would prove fatal to assume only one is correct. So its often written off.

My argument is that while many religions are out there, christianity and islam are the only two religions with an actual eternal hell. So that fact drastically reopens Pascal's validity.
Last edited by djdenney at Sep 17, 2009,
#2
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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#3
Go to that thread. Seriously.
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#4
But there AREN'T only two logical options. That's why Pascal's wager fails. That, and it's a selfish, petty and downright cheeky gesture and if you were to use it with a God assuming they were real, you'd be lucky he didn't give you a clip around the ear for being such a cheeky bugger.

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, neither Islam, nor Christianity can be considered even remotely logical. So you've really only got two options, both of which are as crap as the other.
Last edited by LordBishek at Sep 17, 2009,
#6
Quote by LordBishek
But there AREN'T only two logical options. That's why Pascal's wager fails. That, and it's a selfish, petty and downright cheeky gesture and if you were to use it with a God assuming they were real, you'd be lucky he didn't give you a clip around the ear for being such a cheeky bugger.

This. God ain't gonna let that slide.
#7
lol theres no logic behind god.

theres no logic behind any religion.

fail.

/thread.

take this to the circular thread: R&P
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#8
Quote by Syndromity
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?



#9
Quote by djdenney
Don't push me to the R&P thread. They don't listen over there.


well tough. its there for a reason
#11
Quote by LordBishek
But there AREN'T only two logical options. That's why Pascal's wager fails. That, and it's a selfish, petty and downright cheeky gesture and if you were to use it with a God assuming they were real, you'd be lucky he didn't give you a clip around the ear for being such a cheeky bugger.

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, neither Islam, nor Christianity can be considered even remotely logical. So you've really only got two options, both of which are as crap as the other.

How is Christianity illogical?
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#12
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
well tough. its there for a reason


That reason is under heavy debate, one that's been started by none other than a pit mod and an active contributor in said thread.

Davey, if you read this, shall we consider this the first trial run of the new system?

EDIT: ^^^ Well, there's the whole faith thing for one. That and the fact that BOTH those two religions are descended FROM Judaism, and claim to be revisions of that ancient religion worshipping an all powerful and all perfect God, yet strangely enough, one who needs 2 sequels because he couldn't get it right the first time round.

Oh, and the lack of verifiable evidence other than the one holy book that each religion parades around.
Last edited by LordBishek at Sep 17, 2009,
#13
Quote by genghisgandhi
theres also a reson it might be deleted


yeah i know, that reason is the same reason i never venture in there, but even still, its still alive NOW isn't it?

edit: wow, just noticed Primusfan's thread now. how did i miss that.

i guess i'll just officially consider it dead then.


now, back to TS's thingy.

there are 3 religions that believe in an actual heaven and hell, you missed Judaism. anyways, Pascal's Wager is barely even recognized by most people because of the exact reason that you stated. Pascal's wager itself is illogical and basically useless. you'll know this if you've ever mustered the courage to enter Religion and Spirituality on Yahoo! Answers.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Sep 17, 2009,
#14
Quote by LordBishek
That reason is under heavy debate, one that's been started by none other than a pit mod and an active contributor in said thread.

Davey, if you read this, shall we consider this the first trial run of the new system?


This doesn't really count as a trial because with the thread still up people are all most likely going to say to just go post there.

Also if this is the new systen then: FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
I will stand by all this drinking if it helps me through these days,
It takes a long time just to get this all straight.
#15
...Do you mean occurred? In that context, "recurred" is totally wrong.

And no, Pascal's Wager is flawed. It could only have been proposed in the 17th century; at any other time, people would've had the sense to see through it.
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#16
I think you're gonna have to tell the Pit what Pascal's Wager is. It sounds like a false dichotomy from how you're alluding to it.

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#17
Quote by djdenney
Don't push me to the R&P thread. They don't listen over there.

Has Pascal's wager ever recurred to anyone in the pit?

If one ties Pascal's wager in with the fact that there are only 2 prominent world-views with an actual heaven and hell then aren't there only two logical options?

I'm arguing that the only two logical world-views in existence are Islam and Christianity.


Discuss?


I'm calling troll on this one. Or creationist. Whatever, they're both abdominable.
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#18
Quote by Kensai
I'm calling troll on this one. Or creationist. Whatever, they're both abdominable.


I dunno. It sounds like a trolling viewpoint, but I'm humouring him/her/it because even in R and P sometimes we presuppose biblical "truths" in order to attack and dissect points from several angles.
#19
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
yeah i know, that reason is the same reason i never venture in there, but even still, its still alive NOW isn't it?

well a mod doesnt sticky a thread pertaining to it if action isnt going to taken against it
btw-i lurk in those threads alot
#20
Quote by Kensai
I'm calling troll on this one. Or creationist. Whatever, they're both abdominable.


Abdominal? Like the stomach muscles?

Or do you mean abominable?
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

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#21
Quote by LordBishek
That reason is under heavy debate, one that's been started by none other than a pit mod and an active contributor in said thread.

Davey, if you read this, shall we consider this the first trial run of the new system?

EDIT: ^^^ Well, there's the whole faith thing for one. That and the fact that BOTH those two religions are descended FROM Judaism, and claim to be revisions of that ancient religion worshipping an all powerful and all perfect God, yet strangely enough, one who needs 2 sequels because he couldn't get it right the first time round.

Oh, and the lack of verifiable evidence other than the one holy book that each religion parades around.

What about the Dead Sea scrolls? How those being the first recordings of the gospel and how they match up word for word of modern translation?

What is there extreme about faith?
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#22
Quote by Meths
Abdominal? Like the stomach muscles?

Or do you mean abominable?


If we're talking about Peter Andre's six pack, it could be both
#23
Quote by Early Cuyler
lol theres no logic behind god.

theres no logic behind any religion.

fail.

/thread.

take this to the circular thread: R&P


Haha some think there is no logic in atheism.

although this could definitly be thrown in the religeous thread
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#24
Quote by LordBishek
I dunno. It sounds like a trolling viewpoint, but I'm humouring him/her/it because even in R and P sometimes we presuppose biblical "truths" in order to attack and dissect points from several angles.


You're the one who recently converted to religion

Quote by Meths
Abdominal? Like the stomach muscles?

Or do you mean abominable?


Every time I see you post you're correcting someone's mistake

What happened to the good old meths who would post just to call people cretins?
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#26
Quote by eteam_sammy4him
What about the Dead Sea scrolls? How those being the first recordings of the gospel and how they match up word for word of modern translation?

What is there extreme about faith?


What about the dead sea scrolls? They're a another motley bunch of documents, some agree with the bible, some diverge considerably. And that's still technically only two valid sources, I'd like more please.

Faith is dangerous if it's invalidated. And we know the evidence has been tampered with, the Bible has gone through several revisions, translations and iterations and there's little way to tell what has been added, and more importantly, to know what's been removed. Not to mention the fact that a considerably part of it *cough* genesis *cough* is bullshit anyway.

EDIT: WTF?! When did I convert to a religion?? I'm technically outside the chart area altogether!
#27
Quote by djdenney

My argument is that while many religions are out there, christianity and islam are the only two religions with an actual eternal hell. So that fact drastically reopens Pascal's validity.


Two things here

1) No

2) Nooooooo
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#29
Quote by theboots
Haha some think there is no logic in atheism.

although this could definitly be thrown in the religeous thread


Funny, I could have sworn in most forms of atheism, logic is the ONLY defining element, supported by evidence. Of course, there's always Scientology, but we don't like to talk about that

EDIT: ^^^ Most atheists are agnostics. There is no such thing as a purely agnostic person.
#30
Quote by eteam_sammy4him
What about the Dead Sea scrolls? How those being the first recordings of the gospel and how they match up word for word of modern translation?

What is there extreme about faith?


It's crazy. You believe that the entire universe was made so an omnipotent and omniscient god could check if you believed in him or not. That's pretty extreme. I think shit just happened.

And IIRC (which I do), the dead sea scrolls contain a number of books left out of the bible.

Quote by Dirge Humanity
The whole man coming back from the dead thing.




Quote by Kensai
Every time I see you post you're correcting someone's mistake

What happened to the good old meths who would post just to call people cretins?


People make a lot of mistakes.

Cretin.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

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#31
Quote by LordBishek
What about the dead sea scrolls? They're a another motley bunch of documents, some agree with the bible, some diverge considerably. And that's still technically only two valid sources, I'd like more please.

Faith is dangerous if it's invalidated. And we know the evidence has been tampered with, the Bible has gone through several revisions, translations and iterations and there's little way to tell what has been added, and more importantly, to know what's been removed. Not to mention the fact that a considerably part of it *cough* genesis *cough* is bullshit anyway.

EDIT: WTF?! When did I convert to a religion?? I'm technically outside the chart area altogether!

How do the Scrolls diverge completely. From my research, I have found many a scholar referring to how the Scrolls line up with what has been translated into modern language. If you could point something out, I would greatly appreciate that.

Also, you say "And we know the evidence has been tampered with" but how? Can you point to something?
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#32
Quote by Dirge Humani
The whole man coming back from the dead thing.


why is it that only the faithful can fathom a reality outside of our realm of physics?
#33
Quote by djdenney
So that fact drastically reopens Pascal's validity.




No it doesn't. Why would it?
#34
Quote by LordBishek
I dunno. It sounds like a trolling viewpoint, but I'm humouring him/her/it because even in R and P sometimes we presuppose biblical "truths" in order to attack and dissect points from several angles.

Quote by djdenney
why is it that only the faithful can fathom a reality outside of our realm of physics?


How about now...?
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#35
Quote by LordBishek
Funny, I could have sworn in most forms of atheism, logic is the ONLY defining element, supported by evidence. Of course, there's always Scientology, but we don't like to talk about that

EDIT: ^^^ Most atheists are agnostics. There is no such thing as a purely agnostic person.

a firm agnostic will strongly say "i cant say that a deity exists and neither can you." they take NO stance. Atheists will take at least a little stance
#36
All I know is, if I was God, nobody would go to hell. Except the Jews....


KIDDING!
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#37
Quote by djdenney
why is it that only the faithful can fathom a reality outside of our realm of physics?


Because they're retarded?

Just kidding. A realm outside of our laws of physics is OUTSIDE of our laws of physics. Jesus was in our laws of physics and so subject to our laws.

Riddle me this, n00b:

Omnipotence grants the power to do everything but make logical contradictions manifest. Jesus was both fully human and fully divine. How does that work?

Omnipotence grants the power to do everything but make logical contradictions manifest. The Trinity is both one being and three beings. How does that work?
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Last edited by Meths at Sep 17, 2009,
#38
Quote by eteam_sammy4him
How is Christianity illogical?

How is it not?

Quote by djdenney
why is it that only the faithful can fathom a reality outside of our realm of physics?

That is not true, and you obviously do not know what you are talking about ( I am assuming that by faithful you mean religious, if you do not then disregard this ).

It is so glaringly obvious that all the major religions are just **** that some people made up. I don't know how anyone could believe it.
Last edited by Cameronrobson at Sep 17, 2009,
#39
Quote by genghisgandhi
Atheists will take at least a little stance

There is a problem with your "logic."

To be a self proclaimed Atheist, you say that there is no God.
So in saying such, you are implying that you have known the universe in its whole, and know every area known and unknown, and have soon no God. But in order to do what was just listed, it would require you to be a god. Thus, Atheism, for the sake of logic, cannot exist. Agnosticism is where the line stops.
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#40
Quote by eteam_sammy4him
How do the Scrolls diverge completely. From my research, I have found many a scholar referring to how the Scrolls line up with what has been translated into modern language. If you could point something out, I would greatly appreciate that.

Also, you say "And we know the evidence has been tampered with" but how? Can you point to something?


I'll be honest with you, I'm not the historian. I would refer this stuff to SlackerBabbath, he's actually writing a book on this stuff at the moment, and he can answer your question far more accurately than I can, so I won't embarrass myself by trying to remember half-remembered historical facts. Hopefully, he'll see this thread, otherwise, just drop him a PM, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to answer your questions.

As for the evidence being tampered with, again, he can answer your question better than I can, but this is a good place to start. I was going to mention Nicea, 1st council, but apparently, there is no evidence to suggest there was anything about biblical canon being discussed there. Oh well :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Biblical_canons