#1
I'm really trying to find what the logical use for grammar is.

Past maybe 6th or 7th grade, I don't think grammar is really necessary at all in school. I don't mean proper writing or any of that stuff, but why do we learn the names of all these clauses, phrases, and other things? Naming this stupid shit can't benefit anyone in any way, yet I've been tortured with this subject in class for years now.

Can someone actually explain to me how this is beneficial in the real world?

/angry homework rant
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Last edited by Dr Spaceman at Sep 17, 2009,
#6
Quote by Le_Bunny
To help define the meanings of these facets of language. Your poor grip on the concept does not make it redundant.


It's not that I have a poor grip on it, I'm actually not too bad at English class. It's just how redundant it feels to consistently go over the same material that I have never seen used in the real world outside of teaching it again to yet another group of students.
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#7
... i agree, learning to speak is important but learning what they are is pointless
everything purple tastes like grape
everything blue tastes like blueberry
everything pink tastes like watermelon
everything red tastes like strawberry
everything orange tastes like orange
everything yellow tastes like lemon
#8
So you not sound not smart when people there aren't not talking to you or when your writing a paper for the school.
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#9
The only way it is beneficial is for internetzz fights, one slip up and you are pwned by grammar nazi. I HOPE I DIDN'T SCREW UP! ARRGGHHHHHHHHHHH

EDIT: everyone is trying to sound smart in this thread
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Dr. Speakers
#10
cause then you get signs like this

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#11
Quote by Dr Spaceman
I'm really trying to find what the logical use for grammar is.

Past maybe 6th or 7th grade, I don't think grammar is really necessary at all in school. I don't mean proper writing or any of that stuff, but why do we learn the names of all these clauses, phrases, and other things? Naming this stupid shit can't benefit anyone in anyway, yet I've been tortured with this subject in class for years now.

Can someone actually explain to me how this is beneficial in the real world?

Here comes the actual studies!

One really effective model I've seen includes I think four types of grammar. I'm only concerned with the first two here. Grammar I is the grammar you know and use. Grammar II is your metaknowledge of grammar: What you know you know about grammar. Stuff like "an introductory dependent clause must be followed by a comma." If you don't know that rule, but you still use it, you have the knowledge in Grammar I, but not in Grammar II.

Why am I talking about this?

Because the study I've seen shows that your Grammar II knowledge has little bearing on your Grammar I knowledge. It's just not an effective way of teaching grammar. It works for some, slowly, through rote, and it's the only way to learn a second language, but it's not all that effective.

If you have to tell your teacher this, have him/her look up an article called "Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar."

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


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#13
Quote by SteveHouse
Here comes the actual studies!

One really effective model I've seen includes I think four types of grammar. I'm only concerned with the first two here. Grammar I is the grammar you know and use. Grammar II is your metaknowledge of grammar: What you know you know about grammar. Stuff like "an introductory dependent clause must be followed by a comma." If you don't know that rule, but you still use it, you have the knowledge in Grammar I, but not in Grammar II.

Why am I talking about this?

Because the study I've seen shows that your Grammar II knowledge has little bearing on your Grammar I knowledge. It's just not an effective way of teaching grammar. It works for some, slowly, through rote, and it's the only way to learn a second language, but it's not all that effective.

If you have to tell your teacher this, have him/her look up an article called "Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar."

I guess this is what I was trying to say, but you made it sound much more educated.

In these terms, Grammar I is what I think should be taught. Yes, I know why prepositional phrases, subjunctive clauses, and direct objects are. How will that improve my writing? I don't write something and say, "This sentence really could use some more prepositions." It's just not like that. As far as basic grammar goes, I'm all for it. Anything past that which cannot benefit your writing is useless to me, in my opinion. It's not going to do anything for me or anyone.
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#14
Quote by SteveHouse
Here comes the actual studies!

One really effective model I've seen includes I think four types of grammar. I'm only concerned with the first two here. Grammar I is the grammar you know and use. Grammar II is your metaknowledge of grammar: What you know you know about grammar. Stuff like "an introductory dependent clause must be followed by a comma." If you don't know that rule, but you still use it, you have the knowledge in Grammar I, but not in Grammar II.

Why am I talking about this?

Because the study I've seen shows that your Grammar II knowledge has little bearing on your Grammar I knowledge. It's just not an effective way of teaching grammar. It works for some, slowly, through rote, and it's the only way to learn a second language, but it's not all that effective.

If you have to tell your teacher this, have him/her look up an article called "Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar."


THIS.

Knowing how to use grammar is important, as it can (though not always) have an impact on the meaning of what you're saying. Knowing what all those rules are called is a waste of time. As you can probably tell from all this, I write fairly well. Could I name to you anything grammar related? **** no. I don't remember any of that ****, and I learned it for two language all throughout high-school. I write well and fluently in both languages, but if asked specifically about any grammar things, I would probably get half of it wrong.

Personally, I dislike grammar Nazis, because i believe that as long as the sentence is conveying the intended message, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to. In some cases, poor grammar (especially when the sentence is rife with it) will obfuscate a sentence to the point where you have no clue what is being said. But in the case of small little mistakes, like your instead of you're, it really doesn't matter that much, because it should be pretty damn obvious by the context in which it's used, which one is meant, and so there's no need to get all uppity about it.
#15
Quote by Le_Bunny
To help define the meanings of these facets of language. Your poor grip on the concept does not make it redundant.

This.

Knowing what it is helps you to understand how to use it.

If I start rambling on about how to use DOS without explaining to you what it even is, you're not gonna know what the hell is going on.
#16
Quote by archangels666
This.

Knowing what it is helps you to understand how to use it.

If I start rambling on about how to use DOS without explaining to you what it even is, you're not gonna know what the hell is going on.

Yes, of course I won't. Due to my lack of interest and distaste in something means I have little to no understanding in it. Carry on then.
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#17
English is a fucked up language as is, without grammer oh dear jesus
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#19
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