#1
So besides endless hours of practce, scale runs, and other straight technique practice what has helped you really progress as a guitarist and more importanlty as a musician?

For me thus far its been realizing the relationships of note intervals. Knowing where the 1,3,5 notes of a chord is on the neck and its relations to the other notes of that key via the wholestep half step method, and gaining the perspective to see these 1,3,5 Triad shapes for any key up and down the entire neck. (generally speaking there are four/five different triad shapes on the neck for any key, some have more some have less.)

This has detailed my mental music map on guitar a great deal. I love improvisation so this is awesome for me. I can instanly see the main triad shapes for any major, minor, # or, b key. And using chords like sus4, add 7, or 9 is a snap becasue knowing the 1,3,5 relations puts those notes right close by is an organized fashion.


The past few months ive been doing nothing but improv in a random key and I must say I think my ability to move around the fretboard is quite well for a person relativley new to guitar, (1.5 years) technique can also be practiced by incorperating technique into my fretboard study like, playing lead on my homemade scales, using hammerons, pullofs, slides, bends, vibrato, and that about all I can do technique wise, I know, im noob.


So thats what has progressed me the most how about you? What has helped you the most? Which particular lessons whether they are here on UG or not has given you that !Ah-HA! moment where something just clicks.

Also any mention on what direction to turn in next would be appreciated, I feel like memorizing all the scales, penatonics, and modes arent necessary if contnue with my study this way. Scales are only parts of the fretboard for a given key, to help remember the board as a whole, i know the board as a whole, but not by scale names. tell me F#minor though and i can play here, there, there, and here again. But I think there are some scales like hungarian, and other wierd named ones I cant remember which im not sure how it fits into music other then just being another scale box. any help?


So yeah, what has helped you the most musically speaking, not so much the playing/technique part, I think im right to assume that mostly deals with practice.
Last edited by CarnivalBeam at Sep 20, 2009,
#2
Transcribing. Having a good ear is the single most important skill a musician can have, and transcribing and analyzing your favorite music is the best way to improve that.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#3
Okay so how exactly do you go about that? Do you grab the tabs of a song, and start finding the note names as opposed to the fret numbers and figure out what key it is and continue where from there?
#4
realizing that a lot of the academic ways taught of playing jazz and how to improvise are BS. Realizing that everything i need to improvise is found in any one of the 5 major scale shapes with the 7 inside notes and 5 outside tones, all y arpeggios for that key are in each one of the shapes, and probably the biggest eye opener for me is to play melodies when improvising. which i think seems to be overlooked for a lot of people.
http://richmusic.dmusic.com

"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#5
I am a self taught guitarist, not the best but I'm certainly not a bad one. I've been playing guitar for a year now and I've been asked to play as lead guitarist in bands. To me, progressing is detaching from the logic that barricades you're creativity. Let go of the scales, chords and experiment. To me experimentation is progress. It might be because of my artistic background but I get bored way too quickly if all I play is chords and/or scales. It's a great way to improve playing but I'm more of the adventurous, experimental, weird type of guitarist.

My way may not work with many people, if any at all, but it surely helps me.
#6
Quote by rich2k4
realizing that a lot of the academic ways taught of playing jazz and how to improvise are BS. Realizing that everything i need to improvise is found in any one of the 5 major scale shapes with the 7 inside notes and 5 outside tones, all y arpeggios for that key are in each one of the shapes, and probably the biggest eye opener for me is to play melodies when improvising. which i think seems to be overlooked for a lot of people.



Could you expand on this, I feel im just a step or two behind you. I know the seven inside notes for a given key but by the five outside notes what exactly do you mean?
and appregios I think are the 1, 5, 7 notes of that key? and jsut playing those three notes would be the appregio correct? I think its diff notes then 1, 5,7 though.... also define melody, Ill give you the key of E for example. Play me a melody in E, and appregio in E...
#8
Playing with other talented musicians.

Don't get me wrong...as a Theory and Composition major who's nearing 30, I find academic pedagogy extremely helpful, inspiring, and fulfilling. But want a fire lit under yer ass?? Play with others. PERIOD

EDIT: Okay, take away the "PERIOD" cause I wanted to add a bunch. Every truly important "Ah-ha" moment, and by important I mean something that has remained a part of my make-up as a creator and player of music, has come from moments of clarity whilst playing or observing. It's when all you've learned and thought you understood suddenly becomes usable, creative gold. So yeah, playing(or working) with people who are truly better/more knowledgeable/more experienced then me has helped me progress faster then anything else in my life as musician. And it's funny looking back at how the "people who are better then me" has changed over the years! From metal-heads to jazz guys to contemporary composers. hehe
Gear:
Inflatable Guitar
Digitech GSP 2101/Mosvalve 962/Yamaha S412V
My Imagination
Last edited by KryptNet at Sep 20, 2009,
#9
Quote by CarnivalBeam
Okay so how exactly do you go about that? Do you grab the tabs of a song, and start finding the note names as opposed to the fret numbers and figure out what key it is and continue where from there?

By transcribing music you like. Use a program like Finale and Sibelius and transcribe the different instruments.
Quote by thsrayas
Why did women get multiple orgasms instead of men? I want a river of semen flowing out of my room to mark my territory.

You can play a shoestring if you're sincere
- John Coltrane
#10
Playing by ear/studying and listening to music.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#11
Quote by CarnivalBeam
Could you expand on this, I feel im just a step or two behind you. I know the seven inside notes for a given key but by the five outside notes what exactly do you mean?
and appregios I think are the 1, 5, 7 notes of that key? and jsut playing those three notes would be the appregio correct? I think its diff notes then 1, 5,7 though.... also define melody, Ill give you the key of E for example. Play me a melody in E, and appregio in E...


let me switch it up to the key of C, because it's easier to think of.

so your pitch collection in C is CDEFGAB it's best to think of this like a piano. All the white keys on the piano would be your inside notes right?

5 outside notes. F# C# Bb Eb Ab you can view these as the 5 black keys on the piano.

arpeggios are the 1-3-5-7 of the chord.

let's take a shape of the C major pitch collection.

E: 7 8 10
B: 8 10
G: 7 9 10
D: 7 9 10
A: 7 8 10
E: 7 8 10

those are the frets you pay on each string.

those are all your "white keys" for that section of the guitar for the key of C major

the outside notes fall on the frets that your fingers don't hit in that shape. so say we take the bottom 3 strings.


D: 8
A: 9
E: 9

etc...

those notes are outside notes.

now take a ii-V-I key of C.

Dm7-G7-Cmaj7

using this shape, practice making a melody/idea over it. start simple, 2-3 notes make short melodies/ideas. making sure to use your ears to determine what each note sounds like in various spots during the progression. it's a trial and error thing. you want to be able to associate your ear with the sound, and where your fingers are.

after you get good at this concept you can start to throw in arpeggio's. each of the 5 shapes contain all the arpeggios of the key. so if we take the shape i gave you.

you have your B half dim arpeggio

D: 7
A: 8
E: 7 10

Cmaj7 arpeggio:

D: 9
A: 7 10
E: 8

Dm7 arp:

D: 7 10
A: 8
E: 10


and so on. building off the 1-3-5-7 formula within the scale using the "white keys"

so now you practice using the arpeggios to make your lines. mixing arpeggios in with more linear scale playing. there is also nothing that says you have to, for example, play a dm7 arpeggio over the dm7 chord. you could, and that's fine, but try playing it over the G7 or over the Cmaj7. Try playing the Cmaj7 arpeggio over the G7 and Dm7. always focusing on WHAT DOES IT SOUND LIKE? again, you want to be able to associate the sound with your fingers, and get your ear used to it. because if you can't hear it first, then no amount of music academia is ever going to help you. It doesn't matter if you are playing a superlocrian pentatonic b5 scale from mars, you first have to hear it. let someone else come afterwards and try to explain what you did. the theory comes later.

after you get good at doing that (and keep in mind, this doesn't take a day, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, it takes a long time. more or less depending on the person) you can start to incorporate the outside tones.

start with 1 tone at a time, spend like 2 weeks on 1 outside tone.

lets start with C# since it's the easiest to hear. played on its own by itself over the dm7 it sounds a little dissonant, but not the worst sounding in the world. by mixing it within your lines, you can make it sound good. practice getting the sound it produces in your head, over each chord. practice using it over each chord in the ii-V-I. Again what does it sound like? you want to get the sound in your head, and then associate it with where you fingers are. make exercises doing things like "i'm only going to use the C# over the dm7" or "i'm only going to use the C# over the G7 chord, everything else will be within the inside notes"

i can guarantee you that the pro jazz players didn't learn to play by someone telling them "over dm7 you play d dorian, over G7 you play G mixolydian" i honestly don't know how anyone can make music with that kind of thinking. it's too much thinking, and by the time you figured out what scale to use over which chord, the chord has already long passed by. there is the academia way to play jazz, which from reading around and personal experience only frustrates and confuses people. Then there is the "street" way of playing jazz, which i can bet is how a lot of the pro jazz players learned to play.

i don't take responsibility for creating this method. if you want to learn more, you can go to jimmy bruno's website http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com study with him for 3 months. i'm telling you, it will be the best $60 you have ever spent. he created this method. I guess you can say it's not really created because this is how he learned to play, as well as a lot of the pro jazz players he knows personally, etc. i've seen it in action, i personally know it works, and it has taken my playing to a whole new level, even within the first day of signing up.
http://richmusic.dmusic.com

"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#12
Quote by CarnivalBeam
So besides endless hours of practce, scale runs, and other straight technique practice what has helped you really progress as a guitarist and more importanlty as a musician?

For me thus far its been realizing the relationships of note intervals. Knowing where the 1,3,5 notes of a chord is on the neck and its relations to the other notes of that key via the wholestep half step method, and gaining the perspective to see these 1,3,5 Triad shapes for any key up and down the entire neck. (generally speaking there are four/five different triad shapes on the neck for any key, some have more some have less.)

This has detailed my mental music map on guitar a great deal. I love improvisation so this is awesome for me. I can instanly see the main triad shapes for any major, minor, # or, b key. And using chords like sus4, add 7, or 9 is a snap becasue knowing the 1,3,5 relations puts those notes right close by is an organized fashion.


The past few months ive been doing nothing but improv in a random key and I must say I think my ability to move around the fretboard is quite well for a person relativley new to guitar, (1.5 years) technique can also be practiced by incorperating technique into my fretboard study like, playing lead on my homemade scales, using hammerons, pullofs, slides, bends, vibrato, and that about all I can do technique wise, I know, im noob.


So thats what has progressed me the most how about you? What has helped you the most? Which particular lessons whether they are here on UG or not has given you that !Ah-HA! moment where something just clicks.

Also any mention on what direction to turn in next would be appreciated, I feel like memorizing all the scales, penatonics, and modes arent necessary if contnue with my study this way. Scales are only parts of the fretboard for a given key, to help remember the board as a whole, i know the board as a whole, but not by scale names. tell me F#minor though and i can play here, there, there, and here again. But I think there are some scales like hungarian, and other wierd named ones I cant remember which im not sure how it fits into music other then just being another scale box. any help?


So yeah, what has helped you the most musically speaking, not so much the playing/technique part, I think im right to assume that mostly deals with practice.


If I had to name a single thing that's helped me the most I would say this .....

experience.


Listen to, play, practice, study, appreciate, and most importantly..... enjoy music.

don't worry about how good you are, or what you "need" to do to become good. Just allow it all to come together as you further your experience. It takes time. Have fun with it.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 20, 2009,
#13
wow thanks rich, hopefully I wont have to re-read that too many times to get a firmg grip on it, but much thanks non the less. So you swear by that site huh, looks good but my only porblem is I only have access to internet here at work, not at home so online lessons are kinda out of the question. Unless I could sign up and download then save the lessons to a flash drive or something... sixty bucks is a onetime fee I assume for a whole lot s lessons???
Im gonna look around the site

ah...sixty buxks for 3 months. So could I pay for 3 months and somehow save a ****load of lessons on a hardrive for use anytime even after my membership expires?
Last edited by CarnivalBeam at Sep 21, 2009,
#15
Knowing the fretboard (intervals and notes) and ear training. Also a lot more rhythm practice, that helps for sure.
#16
Not listening to everyones opinions about what is the best way or worst way to do something, and just doing what is best for me.
Gear
Jackson RR24M - EMG ALX w/ ABQ installed
Ibanez Xiphos - stock
LTD Alexi 600 - stock
Ibanex RG - Tone Zone(bridge), PAF Pro(neck)
Blackstar HT-20H
Fulltone OCD
MXR 10 Band EQ
#19
Playing with other musicians and attempting to be creative are the best things to do as a growing musician, in my humble opinion.
Isolation is a gift. All the others are a test of your endurance.
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
If I had to name a single thing that's helped me the most I would say this .....

experience.


Listen to, play, practice, study, appreciate, and most importantly..... enjoy music.

don't worry about how good you are, or what you "need" to do to become good. Just allow it all to come together as you further your experience. It takes time. Have fun with it.

ill have to second that. there is no better teacher than experience really.

i think the amount of hours ive spent not only playing but listening, watching, and thinking about music have made me better. and not only that, but listening to music i never used to listen to. really opened me up to new ideas.

edit: also, i think the biggest thing besides that thats helped me is listening to eric johnson. before him i was kind of in a SRV clone blues rut. i wanted to get out of it and play something different but still play things i could apply to blues. then i heard eric johnson and i felt like he was exactly what i wanted to do. he opened me up to new ways of playing the pentatonic, scale sequences and making beautiful melodic music and harmonies/chords.
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Sep 22, 2009,
#21
Quote by KryptNet
Every truly important "Ah-ha" moment, and by important I mean something that has remained a part of my make-up as a creator and player of music, has come from moments of clarity whilst playing or observing.


i didnt see you post this and wanted to give a +1

i've probably learned more from watching other people play guitar than i have from playing it myself. when i walk into a guitar store if i hear someone jamming it up, i watch. they want an audience? they got one, but its all good cuz im in their hood, absorbing their skillz through osmosis n' sh!t