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#1
Took a trip up to hollywood, went to guitar center, sam ash, and a few other music stores. pretty sweet.
i played
a diezel vh4- thought it sounded like a sh*t high gain marshall through the cab it was on. it wasnt a good cab. some off brand sh*t
a diezel einstein- sounded good, beefy low end in standard tuning, sounded sh*t with an 8 string. was through a framus cab.
a framus dragon- i think this was broken....
a krank rev+- i was pleasantly suprised. it had a very fuzzy distortion like the kstein i played but way better
jcm900-i think this was broken too
and acrate blue voodoo- very nice clssic thrash tone for 199

and at sam ash...
played a vetta head. was confusing to work with no floor thing, sounded convincing


oh, and i bought this

a vh140c head. 200 dollars, sounds great with the xiphos

with xxx

and the xiphos

well it was awesome
Ibanez XPT707 Xiphos
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Mesa Boogie Mark III blue dot Coliseum

Mesa Traditional 4x12 v30's x EVM 12l's


THE SEVEN STRING LEGION
#2
Where were the Diezels and where were did you get the Ampeg?
Whenever I go to GC in Hollywood it's so bad because it's so jam packed and loud in there.


Nonetheless, HNAD!
#4
Nice purchases.
The Xyphos 27 fret has peaked my interest recently.
If only they had another body shape such as the Sabre with that fret acess I would buy it for the epic jazzyness of the Thin wide neck + mohagany body.
#5
as a VH4 user, I can bear witness that something about the one you played on was f'd up... perhaps the cab like you mentioned, perhaps more.

EDIT: wherethe **** are my manners? nice new amp dude, and sick guitar. I've wanted to try one of those!
Last edited by GrisKy at Sep 21, 2009,
#6
Sweet, VH-140Cs are awesome! I miss mine

I've played many VH4s and have thought pretty much the same as you about all of them, and there's no way they were all broken I've heard some awesome tones out of them recorded, but all the ones I've tried sounded like ****
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#7
they take some serious getting used to, that much is true, but i can get anything i want out of one, from fenderish cleans to face melt. did you check what tubes were in it? they'll accept damn near any type.
oh, almost forgot, the bread & butter of the VH4's legacy has been as a studio amp. F'n amazing tracking capabilities. Tool is probably the most easily recognizable example of VH4 tracks.
Last edited by GrisKy at Sep 21, 2009,
#8
well the vh4 was run through a 149 dollar cab. and i got the vh140 from sam ash. they were way better than gc
Ibanez XPT707 Xiphos
Schecter C-7 Loomis FR

Mesa Boogie Mark III blue dot Coliseum

Mesa Traditional 4x12 v30's x EVM 12l's


THE SEVEN STRING LEGION
#10
i tried the diezels in hollywood as well, I wasn't even slightly impressed with them.

-and that is possibly the worst guitar center i've ever been to. The guys couldnt figure out half the stuff they were selling, and seemed too busy to help anyone.

also..so many..mg's..it hurt my eyes!
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Last edited by dcdossett65 at Sep 22, 2009,
#11
Did the VH4 have EL34s or 6L6s? I've played 3, 2 with 6L6s and one with EL34s and I've gotta say, I much preferred the EL34s.
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#12
Krank Rev FTW

I also haven't liked any of the Diezels I've tried.
I have a huge fear if rays.
#13
You must like Death, that was Chuck's main axe.

Looks awesome man.
Quote by progbass
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#14
Quote by acdclandon
You must like Death, that was Chuck's main axe.

Looks awesome man.


Didn't he famously use a B.C.?

Or was that later into his career?
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#15
Well either way its that shape.

Maybe Ibanez just made their own version?
Quote by progbass
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#16
Quote by dcdossett65
i tried the diezels in hollywood as well, I wasn't even slightly impressed with them.

-and that is possibly the worst guitar center i've ever been to. The guys couldnt figure out half the stuff they were selling, and seemed too busy to help anyone.

also..so many..mg's..it hurt my eyes!

So true man. And they do not want to deal there at all! When I was going to buy an amp, they wouldn't even go 10% off, and would only give 5% off of used gear.
#17
Quote by mmolteratx
Did the VH4 have EL34s or 6L6s? I've played 3, 2 with 6L6s and one with EL34s and I've gotta say, I much preferred the EL34s.


gotta say i disagree with you here. while i found that EL34s made the amp a bit more forgiving, they really lacked the "shake the earth" quality with the 6L6s. on top of that (and i know this sounds backwards as hell) the amp cut better on the lead ch with the 6L6s than it did with EL34s when played side by side with a 6L6 loaded Mesa.

i've found that many who play a VH4 are actually turned off by how articulate it is. bang out a 5 note chord and you'll hear 5 notes; muff one of those notes, and you'll hear 4 notes and a muffed note. it's a high gain amp that isn't in the slightest bit forgiving. if you **** up, people will hear it. sometimes i think Pete designed VH4's with the studio in mind. as much of a pain in the ass as it can be to dial live, there could be no easier answer when tracking. it's a one-stop do-it-all.
Last edited by GrisKy at Sep 22, 2009,
#18
Quote by GrisKy
they take some serious getting used to, that much is true, but i can get anything i want out of one, from fenderish cleans to face melt. did you check what tubes were in it? they'll accept damn near any type.
oh, almost forgot, the bread & butter of the VH4's legacy has been as a studio amp. F'n amazing tracking capabilities. Tool is probably the most easily recognizable example of VH4 tracks.

I've tried probably 6 different VH4s; ones with 6L6s, EL-34s, 6550s and KT88s. For me at least, all of them sounded bland on every single channel and not worth the price at all

As far as Adam Jone's tone goes. I honestly don't see what's so great about his tone or playing, all of Tool's main riffs are played mostly by the bass and then just mimicked by the guitar later, which just makes it boring and monotonous to listen to They have a few catchy songs, but for the most part, I can't stand to listen to Tool for more than 10 minutes unless I want to fall asleep.

Quote by GrisKy
gotta say i disagree with you here. while i found that EL34s made the amp a bit more forgiving, they really lacked the "shake the earth" quality with the 6L6s. on top of that (and i know this sounds backwards as hell) the amp cut better on the lead ch with the 6L6s than it did with EL34s when played side by side with a 6L6 loaded Mesa.

i've found that many who play a VH4 are actually turned off by how articulate it is. bang out a 5 note chord and you'll hear 5 notes; muff one of those notes, and you'll hear 4 notes and a muffed note. it's a high gain amp that isn't in the slightest bit forgiving. if you **** up, people will hear it. sometimes i think Pete designed VH4's with the studio in mind. as much of a pain in the ass as it can be to dial live, there could be no easier answer when tracking. it's a one-stop do-it-all.

I will give you this one, the VH4 is pretty articulate, but I still find that it's not articulate enough for a $4600 amp. The SLO still has it beat in that category IMO and just overall sounds better to me.

I don't know what it is with the VH4 to be honest, I've tried a few Herberts and I can honestly say it's the best sounding amp I've ever heard. Having owned an Einstein, it's a great amp as well, overpriced, but it has great tone none the less. I hate to sound like I'm bashing the VH4, I know it's a great amp for some people, but so far, I've yet to see what's so great about them.
Quote by Dave_Mc
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Sep 22, 2009,
#19
Quote by MatrixClaw
I've tried probably 6 different VH4s; ones with 6L6s, EL-34s, 6550s and KT88s. For me at least, all of them sounded bland on every single channel and not worth the price at all

As far as Adam Jone's tone goes. I honestly don't see what's so great about his tone or playing, all of Tool's main riffs are played mostly by the bass and then just mimicked by the guitar later, which just makes it boring and monotonous to listen to They have a few catchy songs, but for the most part, I can't stand to listen to Tool for more than 10 minutes unless I want to fall asleep.


I will give you this one, the VH4 is pretty articulate, but I still find that it's not articulate enough for a $4600 amp. The SLO still has it beat in that category IMO and just overall sounds better to me.

I don't know what it is with the VH4 to be honest, I've tried a few Herberts and I can honestly say it's the best sounding amp I've ever heard. Having owned an Einstein, it's a great amp as well, overpriced, but it has great tone none the less. I hate to sound like I'm bashing the VH4, I know it's a great amp for some people, but so far, I've yet to see what's so great about them.



Ouch, the Tool bashing hurts...

You have a point though, his tone really isn't that great, pretty fuzzy and bland.

Two words man, Danny Carey.
Quote by progbass
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#20
VH140Cs are great. It probably sounds awesome with a 7-string... Makes me want a 7-string
#21
Quote by acdclandon
Ouch, the Tool bashing hurts...

You have a point though, his tone really isn't that great, pretty fuzzy and bland.

Two words man, Danny Carey.

LOL

I mean, I definitely respect them as musicians, but I just don't see why there's so many people that worship Adam Jones, when he really doesn't... do anything

But yeah, I have to admit, Danny Carey is pretty badass!
Quote by Dave_Mc
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#22
sonofabitch! i typed out this really long reply and my computer froze... here we go again...

ok, i feel the need to defend the VH4 here, as absurd as that seems to me. there's a lot of people on this thread who's opinions i respect, and i know you guys aren't noobs by any means, so don't take this the wrong way...

you've got to know the VH4 like you know your mom before you can provide an honest assesment of it. playing one at a store through whatever they've got it running to without any knowledge of how it's been treated doesn't cut it. playing half a dozen over the course of your guitar=playing career doesn't cut it. i'm going on two years with mine, and it's still surprising me with what it's capable of, and to be fair, i've invested considerably in other hardware to bring out the be(a)st in the VH4, but i'd be hard-pressed to recreate the same tones i'm getting with the same equipment through other amps.

to a certain extent, i agree that the super lead is more articulate... by a hair, but keep in mind that the VH4 is a thunderclap amp. it goes way heavy without sacrificing clarity or response. the SLO is a great amp in its own right, but it's not even in the same ballpark as the VH4 in terms of heavy. you'd need a MkIV to reach where the VH4 does, but a MkIV has nowhere near the versatility of the VH4. the best alternative to recreate what that amp is capable of it to A/B/C/D a fender TR, the "TX" setting of a lonestar (er, an approximation thereof. i prefer the lonestar to the VH4's 2nd ch, which is undoubtedly the amps weak link), a MkIV, and a pitbull UL... hardly a more economic approach. factor in the seemingly endless loop possibilities and the fact that it'll accept damn near any tubes... it's easy to see why the VH4 could be the central amp in any studio.

...and a $200 cab doesn't cut it. not saying that the better option has to be the more expensive one (mesa recto and roadking 4x12's, and marshall 1960's = fail for my tone), but i liken a $200 cab to a crate 4x12. for whoever's interrested, i found the best results with a peavey JSX 4x12 slant cab cross loaded (x-pattern) with v30's and 75's, bright switch engaged. sounds great mic'd (low 75 off-center, high 30 coned at a slight angle), though there are times when it's a better option to run out of the XLR outs directly to the FOH board, thus bypassing the diaphrams with regards to my mix signal, ultimately treating the amp similar to a DI.

i'm not going to sit here and defend Adam Jones or Tool, i only used him as an easily recognizable example. TBH, i'm really not a big fan either. Mercinary, Within Temptation, and Lacuna Coil are known to use VH4's live and in the studio. Slash has recorded with VH4's, Mark Tremonti used one at times on the latest Alter Bridge album, and the VH4 is the predominant amp on just about every hard rock record produced by Rob Graves. Jesper Stromblad of In Flames records much of his lead work through reamping a combination of amps to include a VH4, KSE featured a VH4 (and everything else under the sun) on the album Daylight Dies, and Breakin Benjamin uses a.lot.of.amps, but their studio go-to is a VH4, though live Burley most often uses Orange (gotta fact check that one though, been awhile since i've seen his rig). other bands who have toured and/or recorded with a VH4 include Muse, Slipknot, Staind, Ashes Remain, and Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins.
#23
i am not claiming the vh4 to be bad. i admitted the cabs shortcomings early on in the thread.
that being said, i have found that amps that cost 2000usd more hardly justify the money. not saying they are bad, cuz they are great, but for the money they just seem pale.
and the gc employees never know sh*t anywhere, and hollywood was no exception. the sam ash employees were much more knowledgeble and the store had better options.
and i played nergals signature 7 and was not at all impressed. though the demmelition (jackson) kicked extreme amounts of ass
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#24
^^For sure man. I wasn't specifically trying to bash the VH4, that's just how it came out

For me, if an amp doesn't perform well when I try it out, it's not worth buying. I see where you're coming from with having to know the amp and trying it out with a lot of stuff, but if I'm not liking the amp's tone at all when I play it through high-end cabs like the matching Diezel cab, as well as a few different Mesas, Soldanos, VHTs and Marshalls, then there's no way I'm going to spend the cash on it, especially when it costs $4600 new

That being said, I LOVE the tones Erock has been able to get out of his, but I just can't for the life of me get one to sound remotely close to that kickass. The Einstein and Herbert were like instant gratification for me, the VH4 has just been a continual let down, which pisses me off because I wanted to like that amp so bad hahaha.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#25
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#26

lol
i liked the einstein a lot too btw. it was through a framus cab
Ibanez XPT707 Xiphos
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Mesa Boogie Mark III blue dot Coliseum

Mesa Traditional 4x12 v30's x EVM 12l's


THE SEVEN STRING LEGION
#27
Quote by MatrixClaw
Sweet, VH-140Cs are awesome! I miss mine


I'm sure YOU miss more amps than you can shake a stick at . Of ALL people


I tried a VH4 once, & thought it sounded damn good, but this was at NAMM, so they may have brought out the best of the best to demo there It did sound sterile & hi-fi to me though, but I imagine the recorded sound would be nearly perfect.
As far as comparisons to the SLO, I'd agree that the VH4 could get slightly heavier than an SLO (I own an SLO), but If you need heavier than that, you'll need a Randall Warhead, or some other crazy ass sh!t. The SLO really fattens up as you crank it, losing some of the edginess & giving way to smoother lead tone (which is why I pulled 2 tubes on it). I really enjoyed the VH4, but I like the considerably better articulation quality of the SLO more. It makes the SLO just sound way more alive. You'll never hear anyone say they thought an SLO sounded sterile or hi-fi
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#28
i love soldano slo. i played one a while ago in the desert... like the beginning of last summer. it was VERY responsive. but alas, i am poor and was easily shut down by its price tag. i want to try a herbert so bad though...
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#29
i see where grisky is coming from. i learned the hard way about what makes better amps, i play an orange or50h most the time that i just jam. but when i lay tracks or record other people i end up mixing a music man with [other amp here], it is a more challenging setup to play, but it rewards good musicianship. i like something more forgiving when jamming out.
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#30
Quote by dcdossett65
Didn't he famously use a B.C.?

Or was that later into his career?


yeah he used a b.c. rich custom shop stealth

the xiphos looks the same

Muhammed Suicmez from necrophagist uses one, who also loved chuck lol


also, HNAD and AWESOME xiphos
#31
Quote by GrisKy
gotta say i disagree with you here. while i found that EL34s made the amp a bit more forgiving, they really lacked the "shake the earth" quality with the 6L6s. on top of that (and i know this sounds backwards as hell) the amp cut better on the lead ch with the 6L6s than it did with EL34s when played side by side with a 6L6 loaded Mesa.

i've found that many who play a VH4 are actually turned off by how articulate it is. bang out a 5 note chord and you'll hear 5 notes; muff one of those notes, and you'll hear 4 notes and a muffed note. it's a high gain amp that isn't in the slightest bit forgiving. if you **** up, people will hear it. sometimes i think Pete designed VH4's with the studio in mind. as much of a pain in the ass as it can be to dial live, there could be no easier answer when tracking. it's a one-stop do-it-all.


I forgot to mention the cabs. One 6L6 was through a Diezel cab, the other was through a Recto cab and the EL34 was through a Bogner Uberkab. That could make up for the differences. That being said, I couldn't stand the one with the Recto cab.
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#32
Quote by MatrixClaw
^^For sure man. I wasn't specifically trying to bash the VH4, that's just how it came out

For me, if an amp doesn't perform well when I try it out, it's not worth buying.


This, a million times. I don't eq my Orange at all, and it sounds best that way. Just run volume and eq at 12' o clock, and pre gain at 3, and its on tuneful little monster.
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#33
I kind of felt the same way about an Einstein I tried last year. Thought it sounded buzzy, thin and generally pretty bad... but the GC near me just got a new one in and it sounds wonderful.
#34
MC, I get where you're coming from. there's nothing like cranking a JCM800 or [insert fav amp here] and jamming away.

and i agree that the SLO smooths out tremendously into one of the best lead tones ever.

admittedly, the VH4 can at times be a bit too unforgiving for my level of play... i try.

and mm, i had the same results with a mesa cab (surprisingly). just way too bassy and almost farty sounding. horrible. Diezel actually recomends 1960-style cabs (rather than the matched Diezel 4x12) when using EL34's... i found that strange on two levels. (1) that a company would be that honest while keeping the pricetag on their 4x12 cab so high, and (2) that they wouldn't just keep their mouth shut and redesign their cab.

also, i'd just like to say that i take nothing away from other Diezel amps. both the Einstein and Herbert are stellar! the 3rd ch of the VH4 was intended to be a replication of a Herbert set to "fry," but between it and an actual Herbert, i gotta say the Herbert wins handily. Still, i prefer to have the added versatility of a VH4... but it was a tough choice for sure.

riffhog & beet: it's very possible with Diezel amps that one particular amp will sound much better/worse than another of the same model. They're all hand built, so there's a lot of the "human-factor" involved. i've had similar experiences. the original VH4 i ordered arrived looking like it had been drop-kicked along the way (thank god i insured it!). i had ordered it through a GC, and they returned it to be serviced/repaired, but it never sounded the same (or, i suppose i should say it never sounded good at all, seeing as how i never got to hear it before being repaired).

aaand lastly, WTF, don't hate bro. life had to really, REALLY, REEEAAALLLLY suck for me for a long time to afford that amp. ugh, i don't even want to talk about it... and before anyone asks, no, it had nothing to do with prostitution!
#35
Nice Ampeg!
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#36
Quote by GrisKy
and before anyone asks, no, it had nothing to do with prostitution!

One could only hope....


LOL JK

Actually, I'm all for the tweaking of amps, thus why I've owned a Mark IV and now own a Vetta, but even so, with those particular amps, I could hear their potential before I started messing around with everything. It's quite possible that the VH4s I've tried were lemons, as all of them were at Guitar Centers, but I've actually never seen anyone other than me try them out, but who knows, one time I went into one and someone had come in the day before and stolen all the fuses out of the amps so none of them worked. Epic.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#38
Quote by GrisKy
riffhog & beet: it's very possible with Diezel amps that one particular amp will sound much better/worse than another of the same model. They're all hand built, so there's a lot of the "human-factor" involved. i've had similar experiences. the original VH4 i ordered arrived looking like it had been drop-kicked along the way (thank god i insured it!). i had ordered it through a GC, and they returned it to be serviced/repaired, but it never sounded the same (or, i suppose i should say it never sounded good at all, seeing as how i never got to hear it before being repaired).

aaand lastly, WTF, don't hate bro. life had to really, REALLY, REEEAAALLLLY suck for me for a long time to afford that amp. ugh, i don't even want to talk about it... and before anyone asks, no, it had nothing to do with prostitution!


WTF isn't really hating, man. He's just messing with us. He'll be able to buy the killer gear in a couple years!

In my experience, pretty much all of the high end amps I've owned or tried have been very consistent from amp to amp, so I'd be extremely surprised if Diezels varied that much. Even hand wired amps should be virtually identical, save for the miniscule potential tolerance differences in resistors, caps, etc, but that should be negligible given identical circuits & components. Obviously, an abused amp is another story,
& we all know what a huge difference good cabs make.
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#39
Quote by riffhog
WTF isn't really hating, man. He's just messing with us. He'll be able to buy the killer gear in a couple years!

In my experience, pretty much all of the high end amps I've owned or tried have been very consistent from amp to amp, so I'd be extremely surprised if Diezels varied that much. Even hand wired amps should be virtually identical, save for the miniscule potential tolerance differences in resistors, caps, etc, but that should be negligible given identical circuits & components. Obviously, an abused amp is another story,
& we all know what a huge difference good cabs make.

yes yes
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#40
SAMASH FTMFW! $200?
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