#1
So I understand scales, how the chords work with the scales, what notes are in them, etc. but what I am trying to figure out, is how should I go about practicing them in relation to guitar. Every time I go to practice I end up playing just one position. Are there any specific ways of internalizing the scales so I can branch out?

Thanks
#2
What you should do is limit yourself in certain ways. For example practice soloing over a progression without playing more than 3 notes in a row on each string. Or no more than 3 notes in a row in each position. The ways to limit yourself are endless. You can start be limiting yourself to fret zones on the neck or whatever. Just push yourself. Some limits are extremely difficult at first but doing this will help you.
#3
What my guitar teacher has showed is that you have to force yourself to play every scale in usually 5 positions in a row. Since we've been doing a lot of stuff in A lately he doesn't let me solo in 5th position. Like what jinjan said it will take alot of pushing yourself and using various limits. The important thing though is to still keep it fun and interesting.
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#4
learn actual notes on guitar, and where they are. then learn the notes in the scale, not a scale form. then find one octave versions of the scale all over the fretboard, and link them together, using your knowledge of where notes are. then, you yshould be fairly unlimitted.
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#5
there is only 5 shapes you need to know on the guitar. the 5 major scale shapes

Key of C major:

shape 5 (starts on 5th of key)

E: 3 5
B: 3 5 6
G: 2 4 5
D: 2 3 5
A: 2 3 5
E: 3 5


shape 6 (starts on 6th of key)

E: 5 7 8
B: 5 6 8
G: 4 5 7
D: 5 7
A: 5 7 8
E: 5 7 8


shape 7 (starts on 7th of key)

E: 7 8 10
B: 8 10
G: 7 9 10
D: 7 9 10
A: 7 8 10
E: 7 8 10


shape 2 (starts on 2nd of scale)

E: 10 12 13
B: 10 12 13
G: 9 10 12
D: 9 10 12
A: 10 12
E: 10 12 13


shape 3 (starts on 3rd of key)

E: 12 13 15
B: 12 13 15
G: 12 14
D: 12 14 15
A: 12 14 15
E: 12 13 15


all the tools you need to improvise, 7 inside notes, 5 outside notes, arpeggios, are all found within each of those shapes.

take all other scale fingerings you know, throw them out the window.

i go into a little bit more detail about this in previous posts, just search my posts from the last few days.

if you want to know much more. sign up at jimmy bruno's guitar institute. best $60 you will ever spend in your musical life. start to actually make music, instead of talking about it.

the site is geared more for jazz, but those 5 shapes can be applied to all styles.
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#7
5th note in scale.

G is the 5th note in the key of C
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#9
Quote by rich2k4
there is only 5 shapes you need to know on the guitar. the 5 major scale shapes

.......

take all other scale fingerings you know, throw them out the window.
I'm sorry but that is bull (*and reported for advertising*)

Yes you should be able to play those shapes, but ideally you should also be able to play the scale 2nps, 4nps, single string, starting on any note with any finger.

TS, practice it in different patterns starting in different positions. When you know the scale don't just practice it straight up and down. Practice it in 3rds, 4ths, and make up your own patterns - you'll probably never play it straight up and down in a piece of music, so don't just practice them that way.
Last edited by zhilla at Sep 22, 2009,
#10
Quote by zhilla
I'm sorry but that is bull (*and reported for advertising*)
.


oh? in what way exactly?
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"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#11
Quote by rich2k4
oh? in what way exactly?

Scales aren't shapes. That's a horrible way to learn scales.

You should learn all the notes on the fretboard and the notes in the different keys.
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#12
Quote by rich2k4
oh? in what way exactly?
Just learning scales as box patterns is the reason so many people come on here asking how to solo because they are 'stuck in the box'. Scales aren't patterns - they just happen to make patterns on a fretboard, but the patterns are just a fraction of the story.
#13
Those shapes show you where all the inside notes of the C pitch collection occur 5 times on the fretboard. They allow you to visualize the entire fretboard. I refer to them more as pitch collections rather then scales. You should be able to play each of the 5 collections in all 12 keys. I gave you the c major pitch collections but you should be able to do them in all keys. You should also be able to improvise in each shape on it's own without moving to the others. You guys seriously do not grasp just how much musical information is contained within each shape. Only until you know each shape really well, and by really well I mean knowing where all the arpeggios lie within each shape, and how to use the 5 outside notes effectively, only then should you start weaving in and out of each shape.

All I am trying to do, is eliminate all the BS. A lot of musicians are clouded with all the music academia jargon of "for this chord use this scale" or all this unneccesary "modes" nonsense that they end up becoming frustrated and still can't play.

A lot of musicians come out of music school with all this theory knowledge, and are able to finger hundreds of scales in many different ways, yet they still can't play worth a damn, and can't play a good line to save their life. They'd make great "music talkers" and be amazing at talking about music, but not so much playing it.

The method of learning I use teaches you to play music, not talk about it. Take it or leave it. I am just telling you what I see, and it doesn't seem to be too far from the truth. The truth hurts doesn't it?
http://richmusic.dmusic.com

"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#14
^ I have to say, I know 2 other people that have enrolled in that site, and their initial reaction was exactly the same as yours. for the 1st month or so, they thought they found the bible, and had this desire to preach it. While I have plenty of respect of Jimmy Bruno, I disagree with this concept that there is no reason to learn any shapes beyond the 5 diatonic patterns. Certainly there is alot of ground you can cover with those, but I don't see knowing modal shapes(and sounds), or patterns for the whole tone scale, diminished scale ..ect....... as being anything other than beneficial.

I do understand you just started there, and like I said, that's everybodys 1st reaction. There is good stuff there, but it's not the bible of music, and Jimmy Bruno isn't God. There are many valid points of views, and approaches out there to consider (+ your own). I would suggest learning what you can, but keep an open mind.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 22, 2009,
#15
well my opinion comes from years of trying to learn it the other way, with the many fingerings, and getting nowhere. so it's not like i am blindly preaching it. I was a skeptic, decided to try it, and realized how much better it works for me.

patterns for diminished, etc all can be obtained by taking any one of the 5 shapes and adding outside notes to it etc, it all comes from those shapes anyways. no need to learn separate fingerings for them.

jimmy isn't a god, but i trust his opinion. His playing is how i want to play. His method comes from 40 years of teaching and playing, and i think after that long, he knows what works and what doesn't.

Edit: oh and i also want to add that jimmy backs up everything he says with examples, and how to use the concepts. he doesn't just say things for the hell of it.

everything he teaches, you can actually see in his own playing, and by viewing the master classes on the site, there are students there who went from being able to play nothing, to being able to play very well in a short amount of time. It's not like the method doesn't work, it definitely works
http://richmusic.dmusic.com

"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
Last edited by rich2k4 at Sep 22, 2009,