#1
I was listening to Jeff Loomis' new instrumental/solo record the other day and i must say it has to be my favourite instrumental record of all time, i think where people go wrong when they make instrumental records is the structure of the actual song, for example in most of Jeff Loomis' songs on the album he has verses and choruses, but just solos over them every now and then so its not like a 4-5 shredding session, and its not always shredding on his record btw. Other solo guitarists such as Yngwie Malmsteen for example seem to just shred the duration of the song. I think shredding for 4 to 5 minutes is just boring, i think having a structure to a song makes the solos, more memorable because they dont last as long. Would you agree that less is more in instrumental records?

i hope ive posted in the right section btw :S
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#2
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#3
hell yes, you cant shred for 5 mins and expect people to like it, there needs to be more emotion in it, especialy when its instrumental
#4
As far as I'm concerned, post-rock is easily the best instrumental music, that has pretty much no shredding in it. So yeah, less is definitely more in this case.
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#5
I agree, Paul Gilbert's Get Out Of My Yard is kinda similar, though he does do a good deal of shredding and there are a couple of tracks that are almost entirely shredding, most of them have an actual song structure that makes it interesting to listen to, like Rusty Old Boat
#7
i wasnt saying shredding has no emotion but when its instumental it must be really emotional to convay a feeling. and thats what music is about
#8
Quote by innertom
i wasnt saying shredding has no emotion but when its instumental it must be really emotional to convay a feeling. and thats what music is about


it wasnt aimed at you although you said it, it just reminded me of what people usually say
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#9
While it is seen as an instrumental album, its more along the vein of guitar solo instrumental album, as Jeff is a massive fan of all the old Cacophony, Yngwie sorts of music. While it is still a truly fantastic album, there are a lot of sub genres within instrumental music.

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#12
Quote by t0m_r0cks
I was listening to Jeff Loomis' new instrumental/solo record the other day and i must say it has to be my favourite instrumental record of all time, i think where people go wrong when they make instrumental records is the structure of the actual song, for example in most of Jeff Loomis' songs on the album he has verses and choruses, but just solos over them every now and then so its not like a 4-5 shredding session, and its not always shredding on his record btw. Other solo guitarists such as Yngwie Malmsteen for example seem to just shred the duration of the song. I think shredding for 4 to 5 minutes is just boring, i think having a structure to a song makes the solos, more memorable because they dont last as long. Would you agree that less is more in instrumental records?

i hope ive posted in the right section btw :S

well sometimes you wanna hear the guy bust out something. but i agree for the most part. they should still follow some sort of structure with a melody. i think eric johnson makes good instrumentals. he usually has verses, choruses, bridges, and then a solo. so he still treats it like a regular song. some people just shred over their songs. and yes i find that boring. you need variation to keep things interesting. one speed gets boring fast.

Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
To me that sounded like random wankery.

not my style of music, but that hardly sounded random.
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Sep 28, 2009,
#13
i find most of Satch's newer stuff to be well structured too, with a minimum of wanking and more emphasis on a catchy chorus with a solo here and there.
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#14
Instrumental music has always been about structure...a jam isn't a song unless your the Allman Bros.

I've heard Loomis' album. It can't touch any of this in terms of songwriting and melody IMO, but he definitely has something going on for himself there, he's not every other solo guy.

24 Grand Avenue - Michael Lee Firkins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48-0dsYdNqM

Get You Back - Shawn Lane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCH1hN_PKUY

Cruise Control - The Dregs (Steve Morse)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT5olsDjUQM

Hundreds of Thousands - Tony MacAlpine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZi6xr3ePw

Red Handed - Greg Howe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egIIv_ocs8

Ghosts - Joe Satriani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s_ZmGUuy1Y

Stick Pit - Buckethead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q70WN-a1NFQ

There's more then 30 from where that's coming from. Not everything is for everyone that I've posted here, but if you give each one a listen (or pick at a few) you can definitely tell that Loomis certainly isn't the best.
#15
Quote by itstheman
Instrumental music has always been about structure...a jam isn't a song unless your the Allman Bros.

whats wrong with a jam? even jams usually have some sort of melody or chorus part to the song that they come back to. many jazz songs have a theme and then large parts of improv. i dont see how thats any less of a song. most solos are improv anyway. some just have longer solos that take up most of the song lol.
#16
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
whats wrong with a jam? even jams usually have some sort of melody or chorus part to the song that they come back to. many jazz songs have a theme and then large parts of improv. i dont see how thats any less of a song. most solos are improv anyway. some just have longer solos that take up most of the song lol.


A jam allman bros or dead style is a great jam...so are many jazz style improvs. But "shred" jamming tends to just be throw your favorite licks in the key and see how fast it can get.
#17
Quote by itstheman
A jam allman bros or dead style is a great jam...so are many jazz style improvs. But "shred" jamming tends to just be throw your favorite licks in the key and see how fast it can get.

it might just seem that way to those who dont listen to it often. i thought that way too but these days whenever i hear it, the good stuff anyway, there is still a lot of melodic playing.

but yea if you are just shredding for the sake of shredding and never change your speed, that gets boring fast.
#18
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear


not my style of music, but that hardly sounded random.


It didn't sound Zakk Wylde random but I didn't get anything out of it.
#19
Quote by Nilpferdkoenig
It didn't sound Zakk Wylde random but I didn't get anything out of it.

it still sounded structured though. not getting anything out of it doesnt really make it random. i didnt really get anything from it either. not my style of music.
#20
Quote by itstheman
A jam allman bros or dead style is a great jam...so are many jazz style improvs. But "shred" jamming tends to just be throw your favorite licks in the key and see how fast it can get.
What do you think "shred" is?

By the way, I love how "shred" has become a pejorative term.
#21
Quote by bangoodcharlote
What do you think "shred" is?

By the way, I love how "shred" has become a pejorative term.


Rusty Cooley, Michaelangelo Batio, a little bit of Yngwie is shred (just usually ridiculously unncesarily overdone neoclassical.) The rest -- shredding done tastefully and actual breathing phrases involved -- is usually fusion (Greg Howe, Shawn Lane, Steve Morse) instrumental rock/metal (Satch and Vai, Gilbert, Petrucci, Buckethead, etc.) and neoclassical that's NOT over done (Jason Becker, Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore)

The actual genre defined as "shred" doesn't do anything for me...I could listen through Rusty Cooley's album and only really feel impressed about the playing ability, not blown away by the beauty of the piece or how catchy and cool it is, which entices me more.
#22
Why is 'instrumental album' only refering to shred?

I'm definately not a shred fan (at all haha) but "Kind of Blue" and "Take Five" are up there for real jazz (with the he who will not be named 'jazz' sax player probably being 1st)
#23
I'm a big fan of instrumental guitar stuff, but it definitely has to be well structured and significantly more interesting than normal stuff to really hold its own. Pointless wankery and a repetitive sound can really sink a song / album quickly.

While Steve Vai is one of my favorite instrumental guitarists, I really have to hand it to John Petrucci on his solo album Suspended Animation. I really love his writing style, and he's such an incredible player. He comes up with really unique, interesting songs, and manages to make each one sound different enough that it doesn't become repetitive. That's the kind of style I love in instrumentals.

All in all, I think instrumental guitarists just have to keep in mind that the song aught to have a purpose and a clear direction, rather than shredding for its own sake. I really do have a lot of respect for those who do pull it off, though, an instrumental is much harder not only to compose, but to do it right.
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