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#41
I don't think you got the bible reference. But yeah, a lot of guitarists seem to have extremely large hands for playing.
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#42
sorry for the pointless post, but this thread is moving surprisingly fast.

also, currently in the process of obtaining hard hat area.
#43
Quote by MRavioli
I don't think you got the bible reference.


I guess not... But then, it is nearly 2AM. And I'm also not too familiar with the Bible, despite occasionally getting the interest to read it just to see what the fuss is about (as a non-religious soul, myself). Maybe one day.

With that said, Holdsworth trounces any 'god' with a single reversed hammer-on.

Quote by lobster624
this thread is moving surprisingly fast.


Good! It's about time something decent displaced all the Buckethead, Porcupine Tree, Guthrie Govan and GN'R talk around here.

Quote by lobster624
currently in the process of obtaining hard hat area.


Remember to look out for Ruhkukah, Low Levels High Stakes, and the title track - they're mind-blowing shit.
#45
^ The cool thing about those particular cuts is that they start off rather misleadingly, in that one might think "Where's the awesome?" at first. But then, once they get going...
#46
Quote by DaFjory
I guess not... But then, it is nearly 2AM. And I'm also not too familiar with the Bible, despite occasionally getting the interest to read it just to see what the fuss is about (as a non-religious soul, myself). Maybe one day.

With that said, Holdsworth trounces any 'god' with a single reversed hammer-on.


Well, the story is that when Moses meets God on Mount Sinai, Moses is forced to take off his sandals just from hearing the voice of God.

I'm not religious either, I just find the sandals thing hilarious.
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Last edited by MRavioli at Oct 1, 2009,
#48
I CAN FINALLY DO THEM BACKWARDS HAMMERS!!

...except I cannot do them in the awesome pants-****ting holdsworth ultra way that he does it, I.E. playing saxophone/bebop licks with them

oh, and DaFjory, I read someone on the shawn lane forum that went out backstage with holdsworth and got a ton of home-made beer shown off to him.

I think that guy wins.

edit:
btw, does anyone have the "live at yoshi's" DVD?
I have it and I would definitely reccomend it, as it's ****ing awesome.
Last edited by WishfulShredder at Oct 2, 2009,
#49
Since I dare not venture into the Pit, how can I get rid of the chat thingy that keeps popping up on the bottom of my window upon visiting UG? I don't like it, and will never have any use for it. Be gone!
#50
Reverse hammers are the only way.
Originally posted by TapMaster
If you break a JEM you know your going to go to hell when you die

Only member of the 'This is too immature for me' club.
#51
I think I got the hang of the reverse hammer on, I use an up stroke then do the hammer on the next sting like lane does, it sounds better that way.
#52
Quote by DaFjory
Since I dare not venture into the Pit, how can I get rid of the chat thingy that keeps popping up on the bottom of my window upon visiting UG? I don't like it, and will never have any use for it. Be gone!


My Profile->Account Settings(on the left side in the User Menu)->Hide meebo bar

i've been fooling around with reverse hammers since i read about them in this thread a few days ago. at this point i find pull-offs to be more efficient/easier
#53
Quote by MRavioli
No, I really want to though. Does it apply to every technique, including tapping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTI2s4svE2s&feature=PlayList&p=C3ED369FA305713E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=43
It sets a good basework, but not much more. Harrison is cool, but a ****e teacher.


I don't know about that. Except when he starts jumping to the speed of light, it's not too hard to figure out most of his examples by ear. He also fits a TON of stuff into ten minute lessons.
#54
^ From what I could stand to watch of that video, he's a shit teacher. Even Holdsworth himself taught better on his instructional.

Quote by diminishedtobme
I think I got the hang of the reverse hammer on, I use an up stroke then do the hammer on the next sting like lane does, it sounds better that way.


When it applies to Lane, it's a "hammer from nowhere" (especially if you're picking a prior note on a different string). But yeah, that's pretty much it. Actually, the more I think about it, I'm not so bothered about the tonal difference of reversed hammers to normal pulls, as I am about the feel of the technique - it just seems like the right thing to do.

Why the need to barre/pre-load notes along the neck and twang the string sideways, when one can simply drop their fingers down individually per fret using slightly more force? Besides, I've found that it works wonders for strength building. Over time, my fingers have become much more strong and agile for it.

The only thing that makes it challenging, as I've pointed out before, is the inevitable string noise... But I guess the right hand takes care of that.

Quote by lobster624
My Profile->Account Settings(on the left side in the User Menu)->Hide meebo bar


Whew. Thanks! That thing was getting on my nerves.
#55
I find that I get better sound from the calloused part of my finger and that you can find a guide on his tone on the petrucci forum which really helps.
#56
Quote by DaFjory
^ From what I could stand to watch of that video, he's a shit teacher. Even Holdsworth himself taught better on his instructional.


When it applies to Lane, it's a "hammer from nowhere" (especially if you're picking a prior note on a different string). But yeah, that's pretty much it. Actually, the more I think about it, I'm not so bothered about the tonal difference of reversed hammers to normal pulls, as I am about the feel of the technique - it just seems like the right thing to do.

Why the need to barre/pre-load notes along the neck and twang the string sideways, when one can simply drop their fingers down individually per fret using slightly more force? Besides, I've found that it works wonders for strength building. Over time, my fingers have become much more strong and agile for it.

The only thing that makes it challenging, as I've pointed out before, is the inevitable string noise... But I guess the right hand takes care of that.


Whew. Thanks! That thing was getting on my nerves.


You got to admit that he comes up with some great exercises to practice though. My hybrid picking has gone through the roof thanks to his videos. Not to mention it's worth watching his videos just to pick up on the subtleties of his perfect technique.
#57
^I really want to get down that type of hybrid picking.

I don't if I'm doing it wrong or something, but I don't notice any difference in sound betw. pull-offs and backwards hammers.
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#58
Well, I'm still working on the legato technique.

I need help on improving the volume and clarity of the notes I'm playing.

Does anyone else find it awkward to play 12h13h14h15h14h13h12 but easy to play 15h14h13h12h13h14h15?
Ibanez RG350MDX
Dunlop Jazz IIIs
DR Tite-fits(Only because High-Beams sell too fast for me to buy them)
Carvin X212B
#59
are you doing reverse hammers for the pull offs?
[22:33] ben: Yesterday I was gonna eat a shitload of candy but I forgot.
#60
of course.
Ibanez RG350MDX
Dunlop Jazz IIIs
DR Tite-fits(Only because High-Beams sell too fast for me to buy them)
Carvin X212B
#61
right, just making sure. breaking the lick in half might help. as in, work on it going up over and over and then work on it going down over and over.
[22:33] ben: Yesterday I was gonna eat a shitload of candy but I forgot.
#62
um what is a "reverse hammer" and how is it any different than a pull-off?

just recently got into holdsworth as well; fantastic
My last.fm
Quote by OMMad
i've always found pop to be harder to play than metal... especially shred metal... it's just really fast tremolo picking and the occasional palm mute... and the only chords you have to worry about are power chords...
#63
Quote by Colton165
um what is a "reverse hammer" and how is it any different than a pull-off?


Think of it in literal terms.

Or just read the first page.
#65
I love Allan and he's irreplacable - there will only ever be one. I plan to see him next time he's through England (possibly Ireland?). There's very little I can really add to this thread, but I'm really happy to see it.

Ruhkukah


Omg. The slide stretch beast lick in that blows my mind every time - and the way Holdsy references the previous keyboard solo as well.

I always find myself giggling at Peril Premonition, where Holdsy says " 'Ello! Is thut the frunt desk?!" in the thickest of Bradfordian accents.


Best of it is the change to the sunny ending of the song after all that incredible atmosphere.

When you see him up close doing his thing, he makes a guitar look like a toy whilst playing.


Thats the second time I've heard exactly that phrase used to describe Holdsy live.

By the way, anyone had any Holdsworth Demon Brew?

Also, who has which transcription books and what you think of them?
#66
I like his clean chorus chordy stuff and his outside fast playing, yet his slower melodic side leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There's little flow and his vibrato (or lack of) makes his playing sound cold and expressionless.
#68
^ I can see where he's coming from, though. From what I can deduce, there seems to be 3 camps of Holdsworth appreciator - the first kind (such as myself), who marvel in awe at everything he does; the second kind (like griffRG7321), who may not find all aspects of his playing to be so appealing; and the third, who just don't 'get it' and disregard him as some misguided hack of a fusion player, simply through lack of comprehension.

As for this quote in particular...

Quote by griffRG7321
his slower melodic side leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There's little flow and his vibrato (or lack of) makes his playing sound cold and expressionless.


... all I can say is that his lead style cannot possibly hope to appeal to everyone. There's just no way it can. Inevitably you're going to have your Paul Gilbert worshippers who go absolutely apeshit upon hearing him add some "oh-so emotional and meaningful" vibrato to a single note, whilst some of us go similarly apeshit at the sound of Holdsworth doing a long-ass legato slide from one note to a (seemingly) completely random one.

IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.

So yeah, this "emotion" stuff is overrated when it comes to guitar. Sometimes I genuinely want to think about the notes being played, as opposed to "letting go" and all that lame shit I often hear about David Gilmour's playing.
Last edited by DaFjory at Oct 30, 2009,
#69
Got Secrets and Metal Fatigue today, not bad. Not really given them enough of a chance, though.
Quote by duncang
maybe it's because i secrely agree that tracedin inymballsackistheb best album ever


he's got the fire and the fury,
at his command
well you don't have to worry,
if you hold onto jesus' hand
#70
I really dig his slower playing, actually - some tasty lines (and vibrato!) in the Devil Take the Hindmost solo, some beautiful whammy stuff...

I dig his slower playing more in every era than his early fast stuff (although the wide interval shit is awesome throughout).
#71
Quote by DaFjory
^ I can see where he's coming from, though. From what I can deduce, there seems to be 3 camps of Holdsworth appreciator - the first kind (such as myself), who marvel in awe at everything he does; the second kind (like griffRG7321), who may not find all aspects of his playing to be so appealing; and the third, who just don't 'get it' and disregard him as some misguided hack of a fusion player, simply through lack of comprehension.

As for this quote in particular...


... all I can say is that his lead style cannot possibly hope to appeal to everyone. There's just no way it can. Inevitably you're going to have your Paul Gilbert worshippers who go absolutely apeshit upon hearing him add some "oh-so emotional and meaningful" vibrato to a single note, whilst some of us go similarly apeshit at the sound of Holdsworth doing a long-ass legato slide from one note to a (seemingly) completely random one.

IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.

So yeah, this "emotion" stuff is overrated when it comes to guitar. Sometimes I genuinely want to think about the notes being played, as opposed to "letting go" and all that lame shit I often hear about David Gilmour's playing.


I was agreeing with this post up until the last paragraph. To me, personally, "playing with emotion" means being to hear what you want to play, and then being able to play it exactly as you want it interpreted. Both Holdsworth and Gilmour are fantastic at this as is/was Jimi Hendrix, Guthrie Govan, Shawn Lane, SRV, Malmsteen, Morse, and Petrucci. HOWEVER, you have to admit that there is a certain appeal to being able to think up a brilliant melody that is both memorable and something your average listener can grab onto. Look at the Moonlight Sonata for example: which movement does your average person identify more with? The crazy ass arpeggios, pedal tones, counterpoint, and overall holy crapness of the third movement or the beautifully constructed and slower first movement? It takes brilliant technical skill to play the first, but in some ways it takes a better songwriter and musician to play the later (of course Beethoven had both down to a ridiculous degree). While I do greatly enjoy Holdsworth's music, there is really only a certain amount of playing I can take at a time. Eventually the whole "surprise" element of his crazy licks can get a bit old when you're expecting it.
#72
Quote by Freepower
I really dig his slower playing, actually - some tasty lines (and vibrato!) in the Devil Take the Hindmost solo, some beautiful whammy stuff...

I dig his slower playing more in every era than his early fast stuff (although the wide interval shit is awesome throughout).


You can never go wrong with wide intervals.
#74
Quote by Freepower
I dunno, I think when you start the double octave displacement it gets silly.

That being said, I rarely think silly is wrong.


Pfft. I eat double octave displacements for breakfast.
#76
Quote by DaFjory


IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.



Look up the nine note augmented scale (unless you already know about it )
#77
I just read the whole of this thread. Then I decided to plunder my college library for CDs (I fancied The Yes Album).

Oh hello, I.O.U. I did not expect to find Holdsworth here.
Call me Batman.
#78
Evidently his '80s stuff seems to be more popular than that of the '90s.
#79
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIC-nJRcgeU&feature=related

This is the first I've heard or seen him use bends.

Thought I'd bring it to the table of discussion. Quite a shreddy bit of nonsense for him, so maybe some of the Buckethead/satch/etc. fans may be able to relate to it a bit more.
The UG Awards exist only to instill me with existential doubt.


For me, the 60's ended that day in 1978...

Willies. Fuck the lick and fuck you too.
Last edited by TheBurningFish at Nov 17, 2009,
#80
His legato is ludicrously loud. I actually had to watch and check what he was picking sometimes there. Crazy.

Not to mention, clean and more than a little nippy. Bit dull for him imho... oh wait, now that the band's kicked in properly now he sounds like Holdsy again.

Reminds me a bit of the old Shawn Lane at 16 solo spots... lots of energy to burn off and lots of chops but the ideas lack restraint and shape. (not that that'd necessarily a bad thing but you can hear neither is used to playing effectively unaccompanied)