#1
I'm using my Jackson WRMG (EMG 81/85) through a couple of unnecessarily long and cheap cables, an Ibanez Weeping Demon WD7 and a Peavey 6505+, with two goldenplated and very short cables going down into the speaker cabinet, an Ashdown Peacemaker 412A, which has Celestion G12E-50-speakers in it.

Now, my problem is that I think that my 6505+ can sound a lot better. And I don't think it's because of my guitar, which should be pretty good. It sounds kind of "bassy" or low-end and muddy, and not the kind of tone you want for Children of Bodom and thrash metal and stuff like that. My favourite tone at the moment is the one Children of Bodom achieved on their Follow the Reaper record, it sounds pretty massive and sharp.

So, what priority do you think the following adjustments have - which is the most important part?

- Changing cable brand (please suggest)
- Changing cable length

- Changing speakers to Celestion v30s (does it matter if I just swap speakers or if I change the whole cabinet for a, say, Marshall 1960 with v30s in it? Are speakers the only part responsible for tone in a cabinet?)

- Buying an EQ-pedal (the 6505 EQ doesn't affect the tone very much)

- Changing strings (I currently use GHS, but can't remember the size)

Those are the only ones I can think of, feel free to add!

You can see my current EQ-settings on my latest cover on my youtube-channel (see my sig).

I don't know that much about EQ, so I'm not sure how to describe the kind of sound I want or the kind of sound I have.

Thanks a lot in advance!
#2
EQ pedal...the other guitarist in my band has a 6505+ and I have a 5150 and we both have to run through a 31 band rack EQ to get the tone we want (we both found the amps to be a bit muddy just as you did). EQ pedal fixes it man; I would get a 31 band rack mountable one, but a 10 band pedal would probably do just fine
http://www.youtube.com/user/chuckmehh
Randall RM100/Basson Cab
DBX166XL/BBE Sonic Maximizer
Boss NS-2, sCream Cheese 2.0 OD, Zakk Wylde wah
Custom Epiphones
Monster Cables
Awe-in-One picks..and more
#4
get shorter cables, the length of the cable regardless of brand will kill your tone, particularly in the highs and mids
don't blow loads of money on expensive cables(ie. Monster cables) or gimmicks like gold plating, a cheaper but not unknown name brand will give you the same tone

also an eq pedal will do wonders, i highly recommend them in any rig

edit: get a small eq like a Dano fish and chips to boost your mids and highs before the long cable run to your amp and get a good 10 band eq to put in the effects loop
Warning: The above post may contain lethal levels of radiation, sharp objects and sexiness.
Proceed with extreme caution!
Last edited by justinb904 at Sep 27, 2009,
#5
Is this you in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6f-R7fI0aU&feature=channel_page

If so, that is hella good and nice tone too. Love the multiple video screen thing you did too. Don't know much about those speakers you have but V30's are def good. Id say get an MXR 10 band EQ and then take it from there.



Love 5 Magics!
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Sep 27, 2009,
#6
Have you changed the bias on the amp? They're biased very cold stock, fixing that could help.
WTLTL 2011
#7
Thanks, very helpful answers! I'll start off with buying shorter cables then, and not focus on brand like justin said. If that doesn't help I'll buy an MXR 10-band EQ I guess, I've been thinking about it for a long time. I'll take a look at the Dano fish n chips you mentioned. And I don't see a point in changing valves, since the tone I want to achieve is created by bands using the same amp, and probably the same valves... But there's one question left:

It'd probably be my last adjustment, but anyway: does it matter if I just swap speakers (the current G12E-50s for v30s or if I change the whole cabinet for a, say, Marshall 1960 with v30s in it? Are the speakers the only part responsible for tone in a cabinet?

Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Is this you in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6f-R7fI0aU&feature=channel_page

If so, that is hella good and nice tone too. Love the multiple video screen thing you did too. Don't know much about those speakers you have but V30's are def good. Id say get an MXR 10 band EQ and then take it from there.



Love 5 Magics!

Yeah, thanks!

And MarkG, what do you mean? The bias of the tubes?
#9
Quote by VikingMetalhead

And MarkG, what do you mean? The bias of the tubes?


Its adjusting the current that goes through your tubes. Peavey set their bias very low, so relatively little current passes through. The result is longer lasting tubes and easier tube swapping.

Increasing the current that runs through the tubes will decrease mud and fizz. Most people who bias mod their amps end up loving it.

Research it a bit, listen to clips
WTLTL 2011
Last edited by Mark G at Sep 27, 2009,
#10
me personally, I would violenty remove those EMG's from my guitar and get some decent passives. But whatever floats your boat dude.
Better, Faster, Stronger

Kansas City Chiefs

Kansas State Wildcats
Quote by airbrendie
Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

#11
Err no.
Tubes make a HUGE difference. A set of chinese tubes vs. some NOS mullards are like night and the surface of the sun.
Gear :

Ibanez RG2570 (has yet to post pics)
Crap Wal-Mart guitar that came in a 70 buck starters pack.
Marshall MG15, I know
#13
Quote by VanTheKraut
me personally, I would violenty remove those EMG's from my guitar and get some decent passives. But whatever floats your boat dude.

!!! Passive Pups for the Win !!!

Quote by maggot2011
Dude your pregain is at 9 in the video? There's your problem if you're getting mud.
That could be it also, turn down the gain man, no one needs that much. Try Boosting it with an overdrive or eq, should tighten things up. Also, 30-foot cables are retarded.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#14
Quote by Mark G
Have you changed the bias on the amp? They're biased very cold stock, fixing that could help.
I personally suggest this, as well.
EQ pedals are great, but you can become caught up the whole "perfecting your tone", and lose sight of how the amp was designed to sound.. and with something that isn't really a part of the amp itself.

I'd still suggest doing both.
To me, Peavey amps are muddy, period. They sounds great on record and when you dime they, but otherwise, they're pretty standard. Nothing to brag home about. But that's just me. I hear little note definition and clarity when I play a 6505. I hear a wall of saturation and noise. It can be wonderful noise, but often not, imo.

edit: in the video, it also sounds like you're not playing it very loud. The 6505 are particularly washy when at bedroom levels.
Last edited by AngryGoldfish at Sep 27, 2009,
#15
Yeah, I'd go for the bias adjustment first and then an EQ. You could also pick up a decent JJ and or Tungsol 12AX7 preamp tube for about $12 and pop it around in the various preamp tube slots to see if you get a happier difference.


Good luck man and keep on rockin!
#16
The higher the pregain along with the resonance the higher your bass gets almost regardless of where your bass knob is set. The bias mod is a great addition. You could get a pro do it, or if you are generally good with a sauder iron, you can do it yourself. But be warned you may get shocked if you touch the wrong thing, and it could result in serious injuries, possible death. What you need to get is a bais probe(makes it easyer), multimeter, 6.8k 1/4 resistor take the chasis out and flip it over onto the transformers, find the bais sweep knob chip board while its flipped, there should be 1 resitor on it, just swap it out with the 6.8k one and wallah, then use the bias probe and bais it to like 35-40mA. I did 38mA.

New preamp tubes also helps improve the amps tone, I doubt Alexi Laho is using stock tubes, and I wouldnt be suprised if he had it bias modded too. Preamp tube change was one of hte first things I did to my 6505+ and it did wonders, but I was going for a more low gain approach. As for you JJs are higher gain tubes, but running them all across the board = grainy gain. so mix and match brands, just dont put a Tungsol or Sovtek in the V5 slot its a cathode follower and will burn those Russian tubes.

Also dont be afraid to use the mids in that amp, gives it a nice crunch, 'specially with the bias mod.
Reinhardt 18 Head
H&K Tubemiester 18 head
Blue 6505+ head

TC Electronics G Major
MXR phase 90, Pigtronix Echolution 2
Digitech Whammy (5th gen)

ETB Infinity x2
ETB Yoda

Frust
#17
are you pushing your post-gain ever past 3? i know thats a **** load for bedroom levels but the 6505's dont really open up til the get past 3 in the post-gain. The Power tube section is where your going to get most of that tone and clarity. and less pre-gain is always a good way to get rid of mud. I play lead and i barely ever push it past 7 on the pre-gain.
#18
how much are you willing to spend?

the bias adjustment is great if you know what you're doing, and worth the money to have a tech do it if you don't. that said, there's a world of possibilities with that amp.

it's very mod friendly... http://www.voodooamps.com/home/Modifications/AmpModsUpgrades/Peavey/6505Plus/tabid/164/Default.aspx

if you want an EQ to throw in your loop, use a 31 band. think of it as having 3x the control that you would through a pedal while also maintaining a lower noise floor. You don't need a front loaded EQ, that's redundant and inefficient.

Quality cables do matter. running the lengths you're talking about will cause some degredation, but good cables will bleed less, and gold is a great conductor, justinb904.

And ofcourse, NOS tubes can't be beat, but they will at times beat you over the head with how much they cost these days.

...and I favor passives, but that's more a matter of taste.

EDIT: and I make this post assuming you've explored the tonal possibilities of an amp that you own... might be kind of a stretch, but I'll take the risk.
Last edited by GrisKy at Sep 28, 2009,
#19
I don't always play with that much gain, it varies between 6 and 7.5 mostly. And I never exceed post-gain level 2. But I have tried sometimes (just for a short time) but it still sounds the same way sort of. I have tried setting the mid to 5, lowering presence, everything.

Those 30-band equalizers are a bit expensive. Why are more bands better? Is it just for a smoother curve?

Guitarist using those EMGs seem to get a pretty good tone. Maybe it depends on what amp you're using them with, but I bought them just because many famous guitarists use them. I didn't even consider other pickups, I was a little narrow-minded back then

And that tube-bias stuff isn't really my thing. I don't know anyone who could do it. Maybe I'll look into that later on.
#20
Quote by VikingMetalhead
I don't always play with that much gain, it varies between 6 and 7.5 mostly. And I never exceed post-gain level 2. But I have tried sometimes (just for a short time) but it still sounds the same way sort of. I have tried setting the mid to 5, lowering presence, everything.

Those 30-band equalizers are a bit expensive. Why are more bands better? Is it just for a smoother curve?

Guitarist using those EMGs seem to get a pretty good tone. Maybe it depends on what amp you're using them with, but I bought them just because many famous guitarists use them. I didn't even consider other pickups, I was a little narrow-minded back then

And that tube-bias stuff isn't really my thing. I don't know anyone who could do it. Maybe I'll look into that later on.


an MXR ten band would probably still be fine..the Behringer 31 band is just fine for what you're doing as well..it's not too expensive I can't imagine

EDIT: the Behringer is $100 on musiciansfriend...an MXR 6 band, which is $70 would probably also do the trick
http://www.youtube.com/user/chuckmehh
Randall RM100/Basson Cab
DBX166XL/BBE Sonic Maximizer
Boss NS-2, sCream Cheese 2.0 OD, Zakk Wylde wah
Custom Epiphones
Monster Cables
Awe-in-One picks..and more
Last edited by chuckmehh at Sep 28, 2009,
#21
6505+ already has a bias trim pot, and is adjustable, only the regular 6505 is biased to cold and needs a bias mod. The 6505+ has enough voltage to get any 6l6 hot enough, this is one of the reasons the cleans are so much better on these amps compared to the regular 6505. The bias trim is external and is easily adjusted with a bias probe. IMO the 6505+/5150II neither sound nearly as good as the standard 6505/5150, they lack lowed and seem to have been castrated in comparison.
Quote by Cachao

Johnbryant you are obviously a genius

My Gear
Custom USA Standard Telecaster
Peavey Triple XXX 212 Combo
Peavey MS412 Cab Celestion G12K-85's
POD 2.0 (the ultimate practice setup)
Guild DV6
#22
Quote by Johnbryant
6505+ already has a bias trim pot, and is adjustable, only the regular 6505 is biased to cold and needs a bias mod. The 6505+ has enough voltage to get any 6l6 hot enough, this is one of the reasons the cleans are so much better on these amps compared to the regular 6505. The bias trim is external and is easily adjusted with a bias probe. IMO the 6505+/5150II neither sound nearly as good as the standard 6505/5150, they lack lowed and seem to have been castrated in comparison.


I dont think so, the 6505+/5150II has a trim pot but its still has a cold sweep. This is because it has a 12k ohm 1/4 watt resistor on that bias pot, which gives it a sweep that is still cold, you could probably get some naturally hot 6l6s and it might work but otherwise it's not likely. However changing or modding this resistor to a 6.8K ohm 1/4 resistor will give it a nice broad sweep, more than enough to run the tubes hotter and make it sound warmer.

Part of the reason a stock 6505+ has better cleans is because it has less gain on tap, a different circutry, an extra tube to help clean up the rhythm/clean channel, and independent eqs. You can turn the stock unmodded bias pot all the way and it will make a little bit warmer, but still cold. You can crank the stock bais sweep knob all the way and you wont immediatly burn out average 6l6 power tubes, I know because i did just that when it was stock. Then I modded it, and yes so you know you will burn your tubes if you crank the bias knob while its modded.
Reinhardt 18 Head
H&K Tubemiester 18 head
Blue 6505+ head

TC Electronics G Major
MXR phase 90, Pigtronix Echolution 2
Digitech Whammy (5th gen)

ETB Infinity x2
ETB Yoda

Frust
#23
Quote by VikingMetalhead
I don't always play with that much gain, it varies between 6 and 7.5 mostly. And I never exceed post-gain level 2. But I have tried sometimes (just for a short time) but it still sounds the same way sort of. I have tried setting the mid to 5, lowering presence, everything.

Those 30-band equalizers are a bit expensive. Why are more bands better? Is it just for a smoother curve?

Guitarist using those EMGs seem to get a pretty good tone. Maybe it depends on what amp you're using them with, but I bought them just because many famous guitarists use them. I didn't even consider other pickups, I was a little narrow-minded back then

And that tube-bias stuff isn't really my thing. I don't know anyone who could do it. Maybe I'll look into that later on.


Yes, I can name SOOOOOOOOmany albums that are great right now because the guitarist used EMG's. St. Anger, Death Magnetic, Load! Truely three of Metallicas best work. Just think of how many GREAT bands use EMG's. As far as Im concerned. EMG is the reason metal isnt good anymore. But hey, just my opinion.
Better, Faster, Stronger

Kansas City Chiefs

Kansas State Wildcats
Quote by airbrendie
Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

#24
Quote by VanTheKraut
Yes, I can name SOOOOOOOOmany albums that are great right now because the guitarist used EMG's. St. Anger, Death Magnetic, Load! Truely three of Metallicas best work. Just think of how many GREAT bands use EMG's. As far as Im concerned. EMG is the reason metal isnt good anymore. But hey, just my opinion.


You just blamed albums being crappy because of the pick ups the guitarists use.... Are you retarded?...
Whats the longest word?


Quote by timzee117
smiles

because theres a mile between the two s's!


/killme
#25
Turn up your midrange a couple of notches and bass down?
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#26
I actually got curious and began tinkering with the Bias pot on my 6505+, and MAN I found a sweet spot! The Bias pot is still stock, so far as I know, but I did the adjust/listen method, and the lead channel now sounds like a slightly darker hot-rodded marshall, and some extra harmonic content seems to have been tapped. Friggin sweet!

Unfortunately, the filament on one of my tubes glows a little brighter orange than the others, which worries me that I probably need to change the tubes now.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#27
Quote by woodsballplayer
You just blamed albums being crappy because of the pick ups the guitarists use.... Are you retarded?...



I blame a lack of finn trolls
#28
on my 5150, i use the crunch channel, gain on 6, with a od set with gain on 0, tone 5, level 10. thats the best tone ive gotten out of it. just remember that when eqing a 5150, dont use too much gain. especially for the tones youre going for. you dont need uber saturation for COB. and also keep your bass and resonance in check. overuse = mud
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#29
Quote by VanTheKraut
Yes, I can name SOOOOOOOOmany albums that are great right now because the guitarist used EMG's. St. Anger, Death Magnetic, Load! Truely three of Metallicas best work. Just think of how many GREAT bands use EMG's. As far as Im concerned. EMG is the reason metal isnt good anymore. But hey, just my opinion.


You just lost all credibility in my eyes..