#1
I am buying some new tubes, and I was wondering what would be better to replace first, preamp or power section?

I am replacing them because I bought it used without knowing how old the current tubes are.
Plus when it gets too hot, I have a lot of volume loss.

What should I buy first?
#2
well, volume loss is a symptom of power tube failure. is it the palomino? either way, you can buy tubes sets on ebay for probably around 50-75 bucks or go to eurotubes, email him you amp year, make, and model and he'll quote you the tube price and advise on tube choice for the effect you want. you may need a guitar tech to replace you power tubes as you'll probably not want to bias the amp.

but normally when you want to change the tone of a guitar amp it is best to start in the preamp section as the power section is supposed to give 'flat' amplification and has less tonal consequences. i have been preferring a gold 12ax-7 in the V1(input tube positions) and either a standard or hot 12ax-7(for more stock sound), a 12at-7(to cool a hot or messy preamp) or an ecc-803(for a more woody british sound) in the V2(driver tube position). there are then other tubes like phase inverters and effect/send recieves or maybe just more gain stages cascaded into one another, use whatever you want, i usually stick with stock tubes outside of the
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Last edited by gumbilicious at Sep 28, 2009,
#3
I'm new to this hole tubes thing but if i'm not mistaken volume loss is usually from the power amp, but why not replace all at once?
#4
power
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#5
Quote by ShestShestShest
I'm new to this hole tubes thing but if i'm not mistaken volume loss is usually from the power amp, but why not replace all at once?


I only have about 50-60 or so dollars to spend right now, I was planning on doing half this paycheck, and the other half next.

Quote by gumbilicious
well, volume loss is a symptom of power tube failure. is it the palomino? either way, you can buy tubes sets on ebay for probably around 50-75 bucks or go to eurotubes, email him you amp year, make, and model and he'll quote you the tube price and advise on tube choice for the effect you want. you may need a guitar tech to replace you power tubes as you'll probably not want to bias the amp.



Yea, it is the Palomino, I am certain it does not need a bias. I emailed the guy a Doug's Tubes and he recommended some tubes for me already.

Preamp:

v1. Tung Sol 12AX7 re-issue
v2. Electro-Harmonix 12AX7
v3. Sovtek LPS

Power

JJ EL84 Matched quad, I think I want moderate breakup.
#6
if you just bought the amp, have it check out by a tech just to make sure everything is the way it should be


replace all the tubes, just so you know what's in there


if you really cannot afford to have everything done, get the power tubes replaced first. the volume cuts are most likely the power tubes and if the power tubes go, there is the chance it will take another component out with it which would lead to an even bigger mess


f you bought the amp used without having knowledge about its history with previous owners, have it serviced asap
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#7
Quote by the boogieman
if you just bought the amp, have it check out by a tech just to make sure everything is the way it should be


replace all the tubes, just so you know what's in there


if you really cannot afford to have everything done, get the power tubes replaced first. the volume cuts are most likely the power tubes and if the power tubes go, there is the chance it will take another component out with it which would lead to an even bigger mess


f you bought the amp used without having knowledge about its history with previous owners, have it serviced asap



I have had it for almost 6 months or so, and It just started doing this last month. It only happens when the tubes get too hot, it works fine if I keep it air-cooled. It also worked fine when I bought it.
#8
I'd say get some N.O.S Mullard and Telefunken preamp tubes, but you haven't got much to spend.

JJ power tubes are alright, but they're fairly dark sounding.
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#9
Quote by whitenihilist

Yea, it is the Palomino, I am certain it does not need a bias. I emailed the guy a Doug's Tubes and he recommended some tubes for me already.

Preamp:

v1. Tung Sol 12AX7 re-issue
v2. Electro-Harmonix 12AX7
v3. Sovtek LPS

Power

JJ EL84 Matched quad, I think I want moderate breakup.


yeah, i just looked it up. it's got a quad set of el84's in it, the amp is cathode biased so you don't need to bias the power tubes. that is sweet for you. i use the jj el84's myself and i have compared them to a few other el84's and they do sound better than the competition. i usually either get some NOS preamps tubes if i am chipper, or some JJ's. i would trust the sung tol's but i don't like the sovtek's or the eh tubes, they have not been impressive. also didn't dig on ruby's or tad or groove tube.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#10
Preamp tubes last a hell of a lot longer, and genereally the only reason you need to replace them is if one goes microphonic, or you want to try and change the amp's sound.

Definitely go with the power tubes for now.
#11
Quote by Jesstaa
I'd say get some N.O.S Mullard and Telefunken preamp tubes, but you haven't got much to spend.

JJ power tubes are alright, but they're fairly dark sounding.



I do want a little more brightness. If they are not too much more, I may be able to get a little extra money.

Quote by gumbilicious
yeah, i just looked it up. it's got a quad set of el84's in it, the amp is cathode biased so you don't need to bias the power tubes. that is sweet for you. i use the jj el84's myself and i have compared them to a few other el84's and they do sound better than the competition. i usually either get some NOS preamps tubes if i am chipper, or some JJ's. i would trust the sung tol's but i don't like the sovtek's or the eh tubes, they have not been impressive. also didn't dig on ruby's or tad or groove tube.


Thanks for all of the advice man, you are awesome.
Last edited by whitenihilist at Sep 28, 2009,
#12
A single Telefunken tube can go for alot of money on eBay. They're highly sought after.
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#13
They'll be expensive, but if you do some good hunting on ebay, you could probably get a couple of Teles for like $15 each. You just gotta do the bidding game. And I know a few people who are right into bidding for N.O.S tubes.

Also, only buy them from a power seller with 100% reputation (This way you can make sure they're not ****ty tubes, because if you don't have your own tube tester you can't tell for yourself and you can't get a refund just off the fact it sounds ****)

I've also heard the Tung Sol's are fairly bright, so if you can't afford to fill every spot with a N.O.S tube, maybe put a Tung Sol in V2 (Just make sure your plate voltage isn't too high, apparently Tung Sols have been burning out in V2s in Marshall amps due to high plate voltages)
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Last edited by Jesstaa at Sep 28, 2009,
#15
Now i always wondered what do people mean when they say dark sounding?
Like the opposite of bright?
If i like bright tone should i avoid JJ Teslas?

Lots of mids and bass?
#16
Quote by ShestShestShest
Now i always wondered what do people mean when they say dark sounding?
Like the opposite of bright?
If i like bright tone should i avoid JJ Teslas?

Lots of mids and bass?


'dark sounding' is a subjective descriptor, it means something to the person who said it, but usually not to the person they tell it to. i find it as kinda a useless descriptor because i feel the tone stack has more to do with how 'dark' or 'bright' and amp sounds. i use the JJ preamp tubes quite a bit, they sound more chimey in fenders and less so in english style amps. but i also use certain tubes(like 12at-7's) to help tone down particular parts of the preamps section. in other words, you can't just use a blanket statement saying 'JJ's are dark', that is a fallacy.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#17
Quote by gumbilicious
yeah, i just looked it up. it's got a quad set of el84's in it, the amp is cathode biased so you don't need to bias the power tubes. that is sweet for you. i use the jj el84's myself and i have compared them to a few other el84's and they do sound better than the competition. i usually either get some NOS preamps tubes if i am chipper, or some JJ's. i would trust the sung tol's but i don't like the sovtek's or the eh tubes, they have not been impressive. also didn't dig on ruby's or tad or groove tube.


It's not a bad idea to at least check the bias.

Cathode biased amps aren't "self-biasing" or "non-biased" or anything, it's just that el84 cathode biased amps (the most common) tend to be stable, as el84's don't have much variance.

It's a very forgiving set-up, but if I were you, I'd still make sure plate dissipation is kosher.

Particularly since you haven't got tons o' cash to be popping for new tubes all day, which you will be if plate dissipation is over 12 watts.

Just my $.02!
#18
Quote by Rutch
It's not a bad idea to at least check the bias.

Cathode biased amps aren't "self-biasing" or "non-biased" or anything, it's just that el84 cathode biased amps (the most common) tend to be stable, as el84's don't have much variance.

It's a very forgiving set-up, but if I were you, I'd still make sure plate dissipation is kosher.

Particularly since you haven't got tons o' cash to be popping for new tubes all day, which you will be if plate dissipation is over 12 watts.

Just my $.02!



Here is the info I found about the crates cathode biasing:

"they are biased "hot". It's a 20 ohm resistor for the four power tubes."

Honestly don't know what that means. The amp has not bias pot or anything like it to be found. Would I be safe just buying the matched quad and popping them in?
#19
yes, the only way to change bias specs would be to replace hardwired components
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae