#1
I have some questions about scales.
1) Is the type of scale (major, minor, harmonic etc) based on the intervals used (the fret changes between notes)?
2) Is the note letter in front of the scale (E, D, G, B etc) dependent on the first note played?

3) If so, does that mean that an E major scale is a scale starting on E (i.e. open on the the lowest string) following the intervals of the major scale?
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#2
0) it's scale
1) yes the scale in question is defined by the intervals. if you change the intervals in a major scale you no longer have a major scale.
2) the note letter at the front (e.g. E major) is the root note of the passage in question. This is the tone the scale resolves to. [it is important to note here that the root defines the scale. C major and A minor are enharmonic but NOT the same]
3) yes E major is the scale starting on E with the same intervals as the major scale (it doesn't matter which E you start on it is still Emajor). by adding or moving notes you create an altered scale.
#3
Thanks.

Since this is a scale question thread can someone tell me good sounding scales in extreme metal?
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#4
the short answer....yes to all.

long answer...the type of scale is based on the different intervals used between the notes.

The name of the scale isn't always depicted by the first note played...it's simply a tonal center for your notes to find a resting place and for the chord progression to follow.

for a beginner in theory and all around knowledge of scales and music most players will start on the E of an E Major scale because it is simply the easiest place to begin and come to rest. After you have a better understanding of how all of the notes come together and harmonize with each other you will start to find other methods of following any given scale.


The most popular scales in metal are minor, harmonic minor, phrygian, and lydian, .
Last edited by iduno871 at Sep 29, 2009,
#5
Lydian and Dorian modes, minor pentatonic/minor scale.
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#6
Quote by doive
0) it's scale
1) yes the scale in question is defined by the intervals. if you change the intervals in a major scale you no longer have a major scale.
2) the note letter at the front (e.g. E major) is the root note of the passage in question. This is the tone the scale resolves to. [it is important to note here that the root defines the scale. C major and A minor are enharmonic but NOT the same]
3) yes E major is the scale starting on E with the same intervals as the major scale (it doesn't matter which E you start on it is still Emajor). by adding or moving notes you create an altered scale.



about ur point 2, they do sound the same u just write em different with sharpes and flats isnt it? at least that what i understood from school?
#7
Quote by Wretched_Spawn
I have some questions about scales.
1) Is the type of scale (major, minor, harmonic etc) based on the intervals used (the fret changes between notes)?

Yes sir. Each scale has their own specific intervals.

2) Is the note letter in front of the scale (E, D, G, B etc) dependent on the first note played?

Not at all. The letter in front tells you where the scale resolves. If you play notes from the G major scale, in any order, it will sound like it wants to go back to the note G.

3) If so, does that mean that an E major scale is a scale starting on E (i.e. open on the the lowest string) following the intervals of the major scale?

You can play the E major scale however you want. The notes: A, C#, F#, B, D#, G#, E are the same scale as E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#.


Ignore this sentence.


Edit:

Quote by wolvenrick
about ur point 2, they do sound the same u just write em different with sharpes and flats isnt it? at least that what i understood from school?
They don't sound the same. A minor wants to resolve to A. C major wants to resolve to C. They have different intervals because one is a minor scale and the other a major scale. The key signature looks the same on paper because the two scales have the same notes in them.
Last edited by metal4all at Sep 29, 2009,
#8
Quote by metal4all
Ignore this sentence.


Edit:

They don't sound the same. A minor wants to resolve to A. C major wants to resolve to C. They have different intervals because one is a minor scale and the other a major scale. The key signature looks the same on paper because the two scales have the same notes in them.



ooh k so they have exactly the same notes but the A minor wants to go to A and the C major hunkers for the C?

thanks man cleares that up for me!
#9
Quote by wolvenrick
about ur point 2, they do sound the same u just write em different with sharpes and flats isnt it? at least that what i understood from school?
Actually, if you hit up yer circle of fifths you'll see they're written the same too. They are enharmonic in that you are playing the same 8 notes. That's where it ends. Obviously if you had harmony to the scale(chords) you place yourself into a tonality such as Cmaj or Amin. Also depending on how you play Cmaj or any of it's relative scales(without chords) you can hint the ear to it's inner resolutions even without chords. If you start a line going A to C, the ear is already lead to think you are in the key of Amin because of the all powerful min3rd. Though it's up to you where you want to lead the ear from there and the sky is the limit.
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#10
What are the intervals in minor, harmonic and Lydian?
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#11
Quote by Wretched_Spawn
Thanks.

Since this is a scale question thread can someone tell me good sounding scales in extreme metal?

Scales don't really make the sound, it's more the way you use them (a cover like this proves it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah0nWB7FezI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzdeH6MaNVI same notes totally different feel)

That said metal music most commonly uses the minor scale, with the harmonic minor thrown in occasionally. It's also quite common to use a #4/b5 as well , but that's normally taken from outside the scale rather the than being part of the scale you're playing.

Quote by wolvenrick
about ur point 2, they do sound the same u just write em different with sharpes and flats isnt it? at least that what i understood from school?

they have the same notes and same flats and sharps however they sound different. Because they resolve to a different note at the end the whole thing has a different feel.

play A5 C5 G5. Now wait a bit to get that feel out your head and play C5 G5 A5 . they should have a slightly different feel despite being the same actual chords.
#12
Quote by Wretched_Spawn
What are the intervals in minor, harmonic and Lydian?

Do you mean the formulas?

Natural minor:
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Harmonic minor:
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

Lydian:
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
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#13
^ I might
What are formulas?
(Sorry if all thedr questions are n00b, I've never reallyv learnt this sort of thing beforfe.
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#14
Quote by Wretched_Spawn
^ I might
What are formulas?
(Sorry if all thedr questions are n00b, I've never reallyv learnt this sort of thing beforfe.


Formulas are given in numbers (often) 1 to 7 which represent the notes in a scale.
The formula for a major scale is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, which is C D E F G A B. So you really can't tell the intervals between the notes, you should just know that major scale is W W H W W W H. If you put a flat or sharp before a number it means you're making that note one semitone lower or higher. The basic formula for a minor scale is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, in C that's C D Eb F G Ab Bb, the intervals are W H W W H W W. Formulas are an easy way to immediately see where a scale differs from the major scale.
If we take the example of 7even's lydian formula: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7, we immediately can see that it's a normal major with the 4 raised a semitone, so the C lydian scale would be: C D E F# G A B (F# instead of F).
Last edited by deHufter at Sep 30, 2009,
#15
That's confusing
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#16
Aargh, i was typing this huge reply when my comp crashed!

If you read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_scale

and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_scale

you'll figure it out

Conclusion:
Intervals in major scale are: W W H W W W H ( C D E F G A B)
Intervals in minor scale are: W H W W H W W (C D Eb F G Ab Bb)

The formula for major: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ( C D E F G A B )
The formula for minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 ( C D Eb F G Ab Bb )

So from the formula of minor you can see that the 3rd, 6th and 7th degree are flattened.
Last edited by deHufter at Sep 30, 2009,
#17
major scale (which is what the other scales are defined by)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 
C D E F G A B 

minor scale
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 
C D bE F G bA bB 

If you can find those notes on the guitar you will see the gaps between them.
2 frets = whole tone = W
1 fret = semi-tone = half tone = H
The gap between C and D is a whole tone, D and E is a whole E and F is a half (etc...) so you have WWHWWWH as the gaps in the major scale. making more sense?

major scale
1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8
C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C
  W   W   H   W   W   W   H
Last edited by doive at Sep 30, 2009,