#1
Hey guys. So i'm somewhat unfamiliar with all the technical recording terms, ug, and recording itself. I have GarageBand, some light edition stuff, but for now i'm just using GarageBand (GB). Of course, if you have GB, then you know that the samples are limited for a rock/metal guitarist. So, I've been searching for drum stuff.

Toontrack, and EZdrummer have been recommended to me by friends but I was wondering how they actually work. I know that they give you midi files and I'm good with how those work, but lets say they give you the sample and you drag it into an audio track. That should simply be how they recorded it, right? Now if I take one of their midi files and put it into a GB drum track, I'm not going to get their individual drums sounds, i'm just going to get the rhythm but with GB sounds. If I get one of these plugin deals will it also give me the kit as a whole? I'm not quite sure how to say this so I will just reference GB.

On the GB interface you can select the track info on the right panel for midi tracks. Drums, guitars, synths, etc are listed there. Will there be new drum kits listed there also? Thanks so much, I know i'm kinda confusing and don't know any terms but thanks for your help any way.
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#2
Quote by rexatar
Hey guys. So i'm somewhat unfamiliar with all the technical recording terms, ug, and recording itself. I have GarageBand, some light edition stuff, but for now i'm just using GarageBand (GB). Of course, if you have GB, then you know that the samples are limited for a rock/metal guitarist. So, I've been searching for drum stuff.

Toontrack, and EZdrummer have been recommended to me by friends but I was wondering how they actually work. I know that they give you midi files and I'm good with how those work, but lets say they give you the sample and you drag it into an audio track. That should simply be how they recorded it, right? Now if I take one of their midi files and put it into a GB drum track, I'm not going to get their individual drums sounds, i'm just going to get the rhythm but with GB sounds. If I get one of these plugin deals will it also give me the kit as a whole? I'm not quite sure how to say this so I will just reference GB.

On the GB interface you can select the track info on the right panel for midi tracks. Drums, guitars, synths, etc are listed there. Will there be new drum kits listed there also? Thanks so much, I know i'm kinda confusing and don't know any terms but thanks for your help any way.

well EZdrummer is a plug in. theyre are diff plugin extentions for diff software and formats (i believe mac have the au format, pc has vst and Dxi etc....) anyways you ususally put a plug in on a track and it will do what its supposed. for ex: you have a guitar di'ed into a track. you put a guitar rig plug in over it and itll give you a distorted amp tone. for something like EZdrummer, you will have the midi notes on a track, so when you add the plug in it will take the midi notes and play them as the drums (with the correct midi notes of course)

hope this helped
#3
MIDI notes aren't music. think of them as on/off cues. you can write out a drum part in MIDI, throw a guitar simulator on it, and you'll hear a guitar playing those notes.

the same thing goes for importing a friend's MIDI drum track into your DAW: you're just getting the on/off note cues. you won't get your friend's sounds, nor will you get the plugin. the only way to get the plugin is to install it yourself on your computer.
#4
Quote by climhazzard
MIDI notes aren't music. think of them as on/off cues. you can write out a drum part in MIDI, throw a guitar simulator on it, and you'll hear a guitar playing those notes.

the same thing goes for importing a friend's MIDI drum track into your DAW: you're just getting the on/off note cues. you won't get your friend's sounds, nor will you get the plugin. the only way to get the plugin is to install it yourself on your computer.



K thanks alot. I think I got that part so what i'm asking is, does ezdrummer and toontracks give me multiple plugins along with the loops? or is it just one plugin sound? Also, can I just let it play and it'll like randomly generate stuff?
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#5
well each Drum VST has their own selection of drum sounds that are quite tweakable and can be mixed the way you like them. its kind of like a multi FX pedal but for drums. you can play what you want, and get a different sound each time by changing the parameters.

as far as "generating" beats, both ezdrummer and toontrack have their own midi libraries (remember midi is just sheet music for VSTs) and you can very simply create drum lines by dragging over midi blocks straight into a garage band track that has a drum VST enabled on the FX.

for a metal song, its as simple as dragging a ton of blasts, scissor beats and double bass beats. and add fills to taste xD

of course, each of those pre built midi beats can be edited even further to go more along with what you wanted to write.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
Last edited by Kivarenn82 at Sep 30, 2009,
#6
Quote by Kivarenn82
well each Drum VST has their own selection of drum sounds that are quite tweakable and can be mixed the way you like them. its kind of like a multi FX pedal but for drums. you can play what you want, and get a different sound each time by changing the parameters.

as far as "generating" beats, both ezdrummer and toontrack have their own midi libraries (remember midi is just sheet music for VSTs) and you can very simply create drum lines by dragging over midi blocks straight into a garage band track that has a drum VST enabled on the FX.

for a metal song, its as simple as dragging a ton of blasts, scissor beats and double bass beats. and add fills to taste xD

of course, each of those pre built midi beats can be edited even further to go more along with what you wanted to write.


I get how the whole midi idea works but i'm confused on what you are saying about the parameters of the drums. I'm not sure if you are familiar with garageband, but it gives you preset options for a jazz drum set, pop, rock etc. What you are saying sounds like you can mix each individual part of each actual drum. How does that work? do you make your drum set then export it into one of the vst instruments on the garageband list?
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#7
I'm not at all familiar with garageband so what i'm saying might only apply to reaper.. however, these drum programs shouldn't be radically different across different platforms.

i think what you're checking out is specific factory presets of drums sounds. you can get presets that are oriented towards jazz, rock, metal, pop, etc.. however i'm sure within each preset, you can click on a drum and change it parameters in the sense that you can change what kind of drum it is, EQ, how loud it is, the kind of mic mix on it and FX such as reverb..

Also, when you open the drum vst in your multitrack editor (at least in reaper it does this) it should create a 16 channel out submix for you to tinker around with so that you can mix the drums the way you like..

I found that Toontracks EZ drummer was less tweakable than my personal favorite, XLN audios Addictive drums, but you still get impressively high quality sounds that should set you up for a good track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03GHPWarpc

try this video to see how they edit their sounds.. Also, that mixer it shows in the bottom, will (or maybe not since you're runnung a different program) show up in your mixing window.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
Last edited by Kivarenn82 at Oct 1, 2009,
#8
Quote by Kivarenn82
I'm not at all familiar with garageband so what i'm saying might only apply to reaper.. however, these drum programs shouldn't be radically different across different platforms.

i think what you're checking out is specific factory presets of drums sounds. you can get presets that are oriented towards jazz, rock, metal, pop, etc.. however i'm sure within each preset, you can click on a drum and change it parameters in the sense that you can change what kind of drum it is, EQ, how loud it is, the kind of mic mix on it and FX such as reverb..

Also, when you open the drum vst in your multitrack editor (at least in reaper it does this) it should create a 16 channel out submix for you to tinker around with so that you can mix the drums the way you like..

I found that Toontracks EZ drummer was less tweakable than my personal favorite, XLN audios Addictive drums, but you still get impressively high quality sounds that should set you up for a good track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03GHPWarpc

try this video to see how they edit their sounds.. Also, that mixer it shows in the bottom, will (or maybe not since you're runnung a different program) show up in your mixing window.


Alright thanks a lot that confirms what I thought. I think I know what you are saying because I have gearbox (line 6 guitar module) and they offer a plugin version. I don't have the plugin but I found the ad for it and the demo under where you are talking about. However, I downloaded mydrumset but can't find it where I see gearbox and the garageband plugins.

For reaper, how would that work? If i put the drums into reaper would i then export them to garageband?

About EZdrummer and addictive drums, what are the prices and your experiences with both? thanks
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#10
its possible for the VSTi's you've downloaded that the actual vst .dll wasn't imported to your plugins directory in Garageband.

try to find your drum programs VST plugin .dll (i think its a DLL anyway.. could be wrong) directory and then copy it to the plugin or FX directory of your garageband program.

I hope that works for you!

as far as pricing goes, they are pretty expensive, but then at the same time very cheap. each program can run from $199 to $249 depending on where you're buying it from, but in a sense thats a hell of a lot cheaper than buying an entire drumkit, mic set, stands, cables, mixers, FX and other stuff to record a drum line. not to mention the amount of hours (years) needed to get happy enough with your own talents to start laying down tracks! (my own mistake from experience)

my experience with them so far is that, I feel i've wasted a lot of time doing things in trackers with raw .wav samples and that i should have jumped on the VST stuff YEARS ago when i first started hearing about them. it has completely changed the way i create music in a way i'd never thought i'd be doing.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
#11
Quote by Kivarenn82
its possible for the VSTi's you've downloaded that the actual vst .dll wasn't imported to your plugins directory in Garageband.

try to find your drum programs VST plugin .dll (i think its a DLL anyway.. could be wrong) directory and then copy it to the plugin or FX directory of your garageband program.

I hope that works for you!

as far as pricing goes, they are pretty expensive, but then at the same time very cheap. each program can run from $199 to $249 depending on where you're buying it from, but in a sense thats a hell of a lot cheaper than buying an entire drumkit, mic set, stands, cables, mixers, FX and other stuff to record a drum line. not to mention the amount of hours (years) needed to get happy enough with your own talents to start laying down tracks! (my own mistake from experience)

my experience with them so far is that, I feel i've wasted a lot of time doing things in trackers with raw .wav samples and that i should have jumped on the VST stuff YEARS ago when i first started hearing about them. it has completely changed the way i create music in a way i'd never thought i'd be doing.


yeah i figured out why the .dll didn't work. Thats a windows file, doesn't work on mac. I got this program, hydrogen, and it did work with garageband but I didn't like it cause it took to long and wasn't letting me use it as a slave; only standalone then exporting. It was in the right location (i think...) Library, Audio, Plugins, VST. Anyway, i'm thinking about gettin a program just not willing to pay that much. I just record for fun and to give my band demos of my ideas. I'm thinking of torrenting it or something
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#13
Quote by rexatar
yeah i figured out why the .dll didn't work. Thats a windows file, doesn't work on mac. I got this program, hydrogen, and it did work with garageband but I didn't like it cause it took to long and wasn't letting me use it as a slave; only standalone then exporting. It was in the right location (i think...) Library, Audio, Plugins, VST. Anyway, i'm thinking about gettin a program just not willing to pay that much. I just record for fun and to give my band demos of my ideas. I'm thinking of torrenting it or something


hey.. we don't use the T-word around here. If you do it, thats entirely your business.
I'm not judging you or anything, but i can't imagine that mac was very cheap.. if you would pay for a mac, i'm sure you could afford addictive drums or EZdrummer. (just make sure its a mac version)

that aside, there are a myriad of options at your disposal. what i was doing for a long time was using a tracker (modplug) and using drum samples and then program my beats myself.

the tunes i have in my profile are done with tracked drums.. the quality is dated since i'm learning new stuff, but should be a good indicator of its flexibility. the quality is really up to the sample you're using, so if you take advantage of Catharsis studios generosity, i'm sure you could churn out some great sounding tracks without dipping into your wallet.

i'm just a hobby music writer too.. not even in a band or anything, but i enjoy playing and putting my ideas down every once inawhile
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
Last edited by Kivarenn82 at Oct 3, 2009,
#14
Quote by Kivarenn82
hey.. we don't use the T-word around here. If you do it, thats entirely your business.
I'm not judging you or anything, but i can't imagine that mac was very cheap.. if you would pay for a mac, i'm sure you could afford addictive drums or EZdrummer. (just make sure its a mac version)

that aside, there are a myriad of options at your disposal. what i was doing for a long time was using a tracker (modplug) and using drum samples and then program my beats myself.

the tunes i have in my profile are done with tracked drums.. the quality is dated since i'm learning new stuff, but should be a good indicator of its flexibility. the quality is really up to the sample you're using, so if you take advantage of Catharsis studios generosity, i'm sure you could churn out some great sounding tracks without dipping into your wallet.

i'm just a hobby music writer too.. not even in a band or anything, but i enjoy playing and putting my ideas down every once inawhile


you are right. my hardware wasn't cheap, i have a mac, synth, audio interface, etc. I'm just sayiing that I can do all that drum stuff on garageband, just sounds alot worse and takes 3x time. I might buy it its just that all the software I want to get ends up at about $1000 which I don't have/my parents won't buy me (i'm only in highschool). Guitar rig, (a drum program), logic.

That aside, how does the mixer work in ezdrummer? I was watching a tutorial video online and it showed "auxiliary tracks" for each drum for mixing and stuff but was all in one midi track. On garageband i'm not sure that is possible.
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#15
Quote by rexatar
you are right. my hardware wasn't cheap, i have a mac, synth, audio interface, etc. I'm just sayiing that I can do all that drum stuff on garageband, just sounds alot worse and takes 3x time. I might buy it its just that all the software I want to get ends up at about $1000 which I don't have/my parents won't buy me (i'm only in highschool). Guitar rig, (a drum program), logic.

That aside, how does the mixer work in ezdrummer? I was watching a tutorial video online and it showed "auxiliary tracks" for each drum for mixing and stuff but was all in one midi track. On garageband i'm not sure that is possible.



When the plugin is activated it does some mystic voodoo type routing (i'm sure catharsis can explain this without made up terminology) which allows the EZdrummer mixer to be utilized thru the onscreen multitrack mixer. this isn't really a trick that this particular plugin has, but is actually something that i think all multitrack editors are capable of.

While there is only 1 midi track, those extra tracks that are created directly manipulate only the particular midi channel that its routed to.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.
#16
Quote by Kivarenn82
When the plugin is activated it does some mystic voodoo type routing (i'm sure catharsis can explain this without made up terminology) which allows the EZdrummer mixer to be utilized thru the onscreen multitrack mixer. this isn't really a trick that this particular plugin has, but is actually something that i think all multitrack editors are capable of.

While there is only 1 midi track, those extra tracks that are created directly manipulate only the particular midi channel that its routed to.


oh i get it thanks so much. Yeah that makes alot of sense now it was just confusing before because I didn't see how it was possible.

btw I just ordered it from guitarcenter and can't wait till it comes; convinced my parents to get me it
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#18
Quote by Kivarenn82
sweet dude! have fun!

btw dude i know this is kinda off topic, but I have a line 6 toneport (saw your little tone exchange thing) and somehow all my presets and custom sounds were all deleted. Do you know how I can get those back?
Gear
Jackson Slsmg Soloist
Valve King 112
Yamaha MM6
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Little Big Muff Pi--MXR Carbon Copy--Boss GE-7 EQ--Boss DD7 Delay--Boss CH-1 Chorus--Crybaby Wah
#19
Quote by rexatar
btw dude i know this is kinda off topic, but I have a line 6 toneport (saw your little tone exchange thing) and somehow all my presets and custom sounds were all deleted. Do you know how I can get those back?


if they just disappeared, they might still be somewhere in your "my documents" folder (or wherever you happen to have your line 6 stuff)

you could try doing a search in your computer for one of your tones and see where they scuttled off to..

If you had deleted them, then i'm not sure how one might go about restoring them.
Grammar and spelling omitted as an exercise for the reader.