#1
well, I figure restoration is close enough to customization that I can post it in here.

plus I know a bunch of people in here are knowledgeable on older japanese guitars, so the whole second post is for them.. I'm trying to find more info on the guitar, but can't find much.. :/ anyway, yeah. see the 2nd post if you're interested in that stuff or can help, but if not, this is just a restoration thread.

startiiiiiiiing, now.

k, found this guitar at a pawn shop, and thought it'd be pretty cool after fixing it up. it's a japanese jaguar copy, from the late '60s (thats as much as I know for now, at least)

crappy camera phone picture from when I got it. someone painted the switches and tuner knobs red and blue, and the neck was bowed pretty badly, along with a few other problems..


btw, the ski-doo sticker is staying

the pickups are pretty neat..
close up of a pickup, the switches, and the sticker


the whole front, after a bit of cleaning up/ setting up


back


after doing some minor work, I've found a few things that can be changed/ improved/ whatever. although, I'd like to keep all original parts in it, if possible..

starting out, it's a 24" scale length. so shorter than usual, and noticeable, especially when it comes to string tension.. fret buzz is a big problem so far, so.. that doesnt help

the bridge: the spot where you'd put the bar in looks like it's broken. not a huge deal, cause I don't use a trem/ vibrato much anyway. if I desperately need vibrato, I'll just press down on the bridge where the spring is covered..

the tune-o-matic part of the bridge.. it's really strange. instead of a single slot that the string can sit in, there's 5 shallow slots for each string. I'll file down the middle slot in each set, so the string stays in place a bit better, because it's easy to knock the string out of it's slot, if I pick hard :/

the frets are almost flat on top, and really low.. the wear is pretty consistent, though, so I'm going to leave them for now.. Jason says "yeah, if you try to re-crown them, you'll just get yourself a fretless"

fret buzz is a huge problem on open strings, and the action is SUPER high on the higher frets.. pretty sure theres a whole whackload of factors causing this..

the nut is a little too low, the bridge is too high, and the neck isn't angled back, like it should be with a TOM style bridge.
if I lower the saddles anymore, theres virtually no angle over the saddles to the tailpeice, which makes for a big rattling problem. plus, the slots in the saddle are shallow, like I said, which isn't doing any good..


My plan from here is:

- shim the neck, so it's angled back

- file more defined slots in the saddles

- raise the nut a little (I considered a new nut, but I'm aiming to keep all the original parts on, so I think I'll just glue a riser of some kind under the current nut.


that should get the action at a useable height, and I'll address anything else once I get that far..


*second post is all back info on the guitar. help me if you can, but if not, skip aheap, I guess*
#2
Theres no serial number, and no markings on the neck plate/ in the neck pocket/ on the heel/ under the pickguard/ no year stamped into the bridge, so...ere's what I know about it so far, from searching in the interwebs..

it was originally made by Cipher (in Japan?), and sold in North America under the brand Inter-Mark.

The closest I could find to it on the internet was a guitar that looked relatively the same, with a different finish (link)(source page)
on that webpage, it says cipher distributed guitars through inter-mark in the 60s, but not much else..

this youtube video shows a guitar with a lower horn, more strat- styled. in the comments, people mention a 3-pickup model, made in '65 or '66. the one in the video is dismissed as not being from either of those years, and goes on to say it's probably from '68.

A bit more searching, and I found a 3-pickup model, from 67, says the model is S-3T. maybe like the one mentioned in the video comments?
anyway, that s-3t is a closer shape to mine. the main difference is that the tailpiece is much further from the saddles on the 3t than on mine.

like I mentioned in the OP, the angle the strings break over the saddles is really shallow. I'd imagine with the tailpiece further away, the problem would be a much bigger issue, making me think mine might be a later model, where the problem had been addressed (but obviously not solved). thats just a guess, though.

I'm keeping in mind that mine is a shorter scale (although I'm not sure of the scale length on the s-3t), and the body looks alot smaller than the s-3t's..
so it might be a short-scale model from the same year, '67.
OR, it might be the jag. version of the '68 strat-style one in the video.
OR, it could be an earlier or later year. I have no idea..


and then theres still the finish..
I've only ever seen the red/black burst on 2 pickup models, and I've only heard of or seen white finishes on the s-3t. it's entirely possible that there were different finishes on those years models, I just haven't seen them..


so basically, all that only gets me far enough to confidently say "As far as I know, it's from the mid-to-late '60s. maybe."

if anyone has any more information, or can help me out, it's be greatly appreciated..
#4
do it Jason! i wanna see more pics, that guitar is fvcking sexy. Ski-doo and all.
R.I.P. Les Paul, 1915-2009
Quote by Shinozoku
You have a walnut stop sign banjo-tar signed by MAB

˙ןooɔ sı uosɐǝɹ ןɐǝɹ ou ɥʇıʍ ƃıs ɹnoʎ uı ʇxǝʇ uʍop ǝpısdn ƃuıʇʇnd
Quote by Scowmoo
You deserve an Awesome Award for Awesome People.
Seriously.

Stop Sign Guitar? HELL YES!
#5
I always thought James was british, Not sure why.
R.I.P. Les Paul, 1915-2009

A man chooses, a slave obeys.
#7
sure, go for it

you've got close-ups and stuff, right?

..I didnt have time to take any pictures with much detail, and figured you already took some anyway

edit: man, late-reply..

yeah, post em up

..and now I'm reading everything I type with a british accent
Last edited by james4 at Sep 30, 2009,
#8
the only thing i read in my head with a british accent is the word "british"

and irelend is more fun to say if you have an irish accent.

pics are uplaoding to photobucket.. i actually only took like 11 pics of the guitar.. lol, i got bord and lighting sucked and i wanted my other lense. and the cat was entertaining.

woop.








and my favourite. Handsom. lol
Last edited by Jason Jillard at Sep 30, 2009,
#9
pics are up. and james i think you should upload a pic of the truss rod cover that i so awesomly glued back together, and the string retainer.

so yeah, james couldn't get the super glue to come out, so i wa slike, "here give it to me" *smacks small tube as if it was a ketchup bottle*
james:"yeah cuz thats how you get glue out (sarcastic)"
*glue spurts out freely*
jason: YEahp.
#10
Quote by Jason Jillard
pics are up. and james i think you should upload a pic of the truss rod cover that i so awesomly glued back together, and the string retainer.

so yeah, james couldn't get the super glue to come out, so i wa slike, "here give it to me" *smacks small tube as if it was a ketchup bottle*
james:"yeah cuz thats how you get glue out (sarcastic)"
*glue spurts out freely*
jason: YEahp.

-.-


#11
I just did a little poking around, but I can't seem to find out anything about the names Cipher or Inter-mark.

Congratulations, you've got yourself an offset that neither offset guitars or shortscale know about. I'm genuinely gobsmacked.

EDIT: According to this website it's an S-2T, circa ~1960.

http://www.jedistar.com/jedistar_vintage_guitar_dating_c1.htm
Skeet UK is awesome, he can get WD Music parts discounted.
Last edited by Baconfish at Sep 30, 2009,
#13
Quote by Baconfish
I just did a little poking around, but I can't seem to find out anything about the names Cipher or Inter-mark.

Congratulations, you've got yourself an offset that neither offset guitars or shortscale know about. I'm genuinely gobsmacked.

EDIT: According to this website it's an S-2T, circa ~1960.

http://www.jedistar.com/jedistar_vintage_guitar_dating_c1.htm



thats the page I linked to in my second post, but somehow I missed where it says "s-2t"

that makes sense, though. since the 3- pickup model is an s-3t
I tried googleing s-2t yesterday, when I found the s-3t online, just taking a wild guess, but didnt find anything so thought that might not be the model

I wish there was a serial number or something on it to find an exact year, but at least I know the model now
Quote by Invader Jim
+1 to vintage stickers. I found a few and put a couple on my strat. My fave is the one that says Honeycomb Kid Bike Power.

lol, thats awesome xD


gonna hopefully have a bit more work done on it tonight.. I'll have the neck shimmed, fix the ground wire from the bridge, and maybe have those saddles acting more like.. saddles
#14
can i come over agian? Brian needs a few mroe days to finish the cabinets before i can get started in the shop. i might buy some plywood today tho and get started on drawing out the templates super exact and actually measure things like the neck pocket and stuff that i just guessed during the drawing part lol.
#15
Quote by Jason Jillard
can i come over agian? Brian needs a few mroe days to finish the cabinets before i can get started in the shop. i might buy some plywood today tho and get started on drawing out the templates super exact and actually measure things like the neck pocket and stuff that i just guessed during the drawing part lol.

lol, sure

actually, I was gonna ask you if you've got some small files, for the bridge, too.. cause I don't know if I have any/ where they are if I do D:
#17
Quote by james4


thats the page I linked to in my second post, but somehow I missed where it says "s-2t"

This is what I get for just clicking the picture link and not the source page one.
Skeet UK is awesome, he can get WD Music parts discounted.
#18
alright, I got the minor wiring issue under control (the bridge ground wire was bent weird, so it shorted everything..)

then I shimmed the neck, and filled the bolt-on holes in the neck in a bit, because the screws didn't really grab..

Jason cleaned up the saddles a bit:


then we popped the nut off and tried a few different ways to raise the nut.. using different materials and stuff.

what we settled on :



tomorrow, once the glue's dry, I'll chop off the rest of the picks, that're sticking out, sand it a bit, and it should be good to go.

full:


I played it a bit after shimming the neck, but before doing anything to the saddles and nut.. it actually sounds decent, but it's got a super low output.

meh. it'll do, though =]


on the list of 'to maybe do':

- do something about the trem arm. the spot it used to go into is broken. so.. I have no ideas yet, but I'm sure I'll come up with something..

- oil the fretboard. not so much a 'maybe', as 'when I get some oil'. ..obvious reasons
#19
and buy a new strap.
and thicker strings? still doing that?


lol. this was fun to work on tho.

that nut smelt so bad when i was cleaning i o.0

and i cut myself.

with a razor. while taking the nut off. it hurt a little and bled. then james got me a bandaid. and then let me use the handle that goes with the razor -.-
#20
well, I suck at updating threads..

it's all finished now




fretboard's oiled, action's nice, the tuning stability's surprisingly good, and it sounds pretty decent, too.

yay!

fun little guitar.. the small body/shorter scale/ relatively big neck profile give it a real cool feel


just figured I'd leave the thread with a few finished pics, at least
#21
Nice job guys, looks great!

Did you fix the trem or output problems?
Impossible is Nothing
#23
the trem's still not really usable, as of now..
I'm not sure how I could go about fixing it short of a whole new tailpeice, though



the bit thats circled looks like it was supposed to have a full ring of metal there, where the bar screwed or popped in, but the overhanging bit of it broke off

not sure what I'll do about that, but for now I'm fine not using it, I guess


if by the output problem, you mean the wiring issue, it's all good.

the pickups are really low-output, but.. I guess thats just how they are. the neck pickup, and neck + bridge together sound pretty good, despite the quietness..


meh. I think keeping it all stock (plus two shards of picks) lets it keep a cool vibe, even if it's a little quiet

I've got an LPB for that xD