#1
I currently play a Bugera 6262 head (which I got for a steal of a price AND the plastic clip was already fixed!) through a loaner cab. I was originally gonna buy it but after getting to know the seller ('cause it turned out he went to the same college and lived like 5min away from me) he just let me borrow it because he wasn't hurting for cash and it wasn't selling anyway. I agreed to give it back to him when I either a) bought my own or b) he found a buyer. At the time I didn't care about what it sounded like, at least I could play and more importantly LEARN how to play better.

Now? It sounds way too fizzy to me and the bass, although plenty of it, is very flabby for me. Like doing any kind of chug riff sounds muddied up and not very clear. I thought it was my ****e playing at first (or my Bugera ¡onoes! more money down the drain), but when I tried playing the same setup except through his Vader 212 it was much better sounding. I've been meaning to head to the local shop (which sells Mesa amps so I assume their cabs too) and try a cab loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's. I see a ton of metal bands play through these speakers so surely they'd have a sound I'm describing .. but then again if they all jumped off a bridge I'd be super-hesitant but probably end up doing it too, for those that use that old adage as a rebuttal.

So ..

Problems:
  • Current loaner Marshall cab loaded with G12T-75's waves bye-bye.
  • Speakers sounded fizzy to me.
  • Good amount of bass, but was not tight at all by my ear.
  • Have yet to try a cab loaded with V30's.
  • Unwilling to go above $500.
  • Unwilling to go used via ebay/etc. - local only (Birmingham, AL) and that's slim pickin's.


Solutions:
  • Buy a Vader 212 cab since it had something more to what I was looking for.
  • Buy a X 212 cab (X = whatever company, i.e. Mesa, Avatar, etc) loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's.
  • Buy a X 212 cab with some other speaker that I haven't learned about .. yet.
  • Ask UG GG&A since I lurk here all the time and ya'll tend (always would be a lie :P) to give fairly sound advice so long as the poster tells you what they have/want/afford.


P.S., do I use parenthetical insertions too much? Someone mentioned it to me the other day that when I write informally I throw them around like it's my job - but they're so convenient to add my thoughts on something that I don't want as part of the actual sentence.

P.P.S., I listen to a lot of different downtuned metal stuff for which I have a guitar tuned to Drop C (prolly gonna have to get another for drop Bb or A .. or just a 7-string?) and the always classy and popular standard tuned thrash stuff for which I have another guitar setup for.

I'd like to thank any input in advance as most of it will only help me make a better decision. Have fun and rock on
Current Gear:

Martin DX-1
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
ESP LTD V-500 w/ EMG 81/81
Dean Z (Explorer) w/ SD SH-4/TB-4
Marshall 2x12 w/ GT12T-75's
Avatar 2x12 w/ Hellatone 60's
Bugera 6262 Head w/ JJ 6L6's
Various Effects Pedals
#2
Grab yourself a 2x12 (or 4x12 depending on what you prefer) and mix a V30 with a G12K-100, they really compliment each other well.
#3
Quote by i_am_metalhead
Grab yourself a 2x12 (or 4x12 depending on what you prefer) and mix a V30 with a G12K-100, they really compliment each other well.


AHA! I appreciate the quick response time and your amazingly useful albeit short feedback- I didn't think I would see anything till tomorrow. I will add the G12k-100 to my list of stuff to research (a term rather loosely and unfortunately interchangeable with Google). I do recall it being one of the Celestions I could choose from on Avatar without adding more money, a definite plus in my book. I know YouTube isn't the first place I should be heading to demo sounds as the quality is about as classy as a Spanish hooker charging two euro's for a blowjob (not that I have anything against Spaniards but I encountered a few of these during my three week stint in Spain - none of which I accepted for those of you with your mind in the gutter .. I haggled it down to one euro before I accepted as would any self-respecting person). So if you don't mind me asking, how does the G12k-100 compliment the V30? Tight bass? Shrill highs? Fat mids?
Current Gear:

Martin DX-1
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
ESP LTD V-500 w/ EMG 81/81
Dean Z (Explorer) w/ SD SH-4/TB-4
Marshall 2x12 w/ GT12T-75's
Avatar 2x12 w/ Hellatone 60's
Bugera 6262 Head w/ JJ 6L6's
Various Effects Pedals
#4
Well the G12K-100 and the V30 are similarly voiced. But to my ears the G12K-100 has a bit more bass response and a little smoother upper mids than that V30.
#5
I own both.......The g12k is Made for Lots of of big Heavy gain and is crisp and clean with a Big Tight bottom end But is kinda bland with cleans at lower volumes. the V30 is a bit looser and adds definition at lower volumes. They are a great compliment to each other. But You should hear the G12k cranked.......Sweet!!! I'm selling a Mint G12k100 8ohn if your interested Pm me i'll i send you some pic's make you a good deal it's not being used since i got my Budda and It's taking up space.
___________________________
Playing on some new gear....review to follow
#6
thomann.de - Harley Benton G212 Vintage


Its a 2x12 cab loaded with V30s, closed back and its actually CHEAPER than it would be to buy two vintage 30s on their own (about £150)...i own one and its awesome for the price...
Gear
ESP LTD Truckster James Hetfield Sig
120W Bugera 333 Amp
Harley Benton G212 Vintage Cab

Desired Gear
ESP EX Diamond
ISP Decimator
EHX Metal Muff
MXR 10-Band EQ

C4C
Illusory Master
#8
the chinese vin30's suck too, i suggest you get osmething with eminence governors in it instead
Member of the Schecter Hellraisers
Gear:
Esp Ltd KH-603, Schecter c-1+ and Epiphone Les Pauls
Carvin amps, Sperzel Trim-Lok, Emg active pickups only, Tonepros bridges.
#9
Quote by ShestShestShest
You should look into V60's.
V60's are where it's at.

definately have a nice tight bottom end but i thought you could only get them in the engl standard cabs?
#10
Quote by Harvesterofsrrw
the chinese vin30's suck too, i suggest you get osmething with eminence governors in it instead
I wonder if that's not why the V30 1x12 I tried with my HT-5 this weekend sounded bad. Chinese Celestions - what a joke?
Quote by Marty Friedman
Because I bend in such an unorthodox fashion; the notes kinda slide up and slide down...
#11
Quote by ch0
I wonder if that's not why the V30 1x12 I tried with my HT-5 this weekend sounded bad. Chinese Celestions - what a joke?

probably
Member of the Schecter Hellraisers
Gear:
Esp Ltd KH-603, Schecter c-1+ and Epiphone Les Pauls
Carvin amps, Sperzel Trim-Lok, Emg active pickups only, Tonepros bridges.
#12
Vintage 30's don't start s sounding good till they are nice and broke in. Here is a very vintage 30 for ya I wish i had 3 more just like it!!
___________________________
Playing on some new gear....review to follow
#13
As said, a new V30 will sound stiff and a bit spiky in the mids and highs. They need around 50-100 hours of play time to break in.
Being that the new ones are made in China has nothing to do with the quality of sound. They sound exactly the same as the originals.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
FENDER STRATS
DIMARZIO
CELESTION
#14
Warehouse Speakers makes a Vintage 30 speaker that has the mid-range spike problem fixed. I recently bought a pair of them and did some back to back tests against my original Vintage 30s. The Warehouse version sounded MUCH better and they were about 1/3 the cost. They call it a 'Veteran 30'.
If you're into Vintage 30s I would highly recommend them.
You can check them out at http://warehousespeakers.com/
I believe they are still selling for around $69. This is a ridiculous price for a modified Vintage 30 that sounds MUCH better then the originals.

Additionally, www.avatarspeakers.com has what is called a 'Hellatone' speaker. They take a Vintage 30, break it in and give it a bit better bass response. They retail for about $99
1979 Gibson Les Paul Silverburst
James Tyler Variax JTV89
Schecter C1 Classic
Ibanez RG520QS
Greg Bennett Torino TR4

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
GSP1101 & Pod X3 Pro
Peavey 5150 & JSX
Bugera 6262 & 333XL
Carvin V3
Spider Valve HD100
#15
I really appreciate the feedback everyone! Learning as I go and it's nice having all this stuff to be reading about - more options the better!

So let me consolidate what's going on here and talk about what I'm leaning to decision-wise:

Celestion Vintage 30
  • Has the sound I'm looking for (tried a 212 cab loaded with 'em .. but do Mesa's use a 60 or .. ?).
  • Needs to be broken in with considerable play.
  • Spiky and harsh until properly broken in.
  • *Possibly not as good if made in China?


* = Up for debate since I read two different things here.

Celestion V12-60 (assuming this is what ShestShestShest meant)
  • Where it's at, apparently .. didn't get much else from reading or the post.


Celestion G12K-100
  • Similarly voiced to a V30.
  • *Compliments well with the V30 when mixed.
  • Big tight bottom end (how I also like my women, amusingly).


* = Possible phasing issues (either constructive or destructive) mixing different speakers in the same cab. I'm not 100% sure but would like someone's feedback about this being an issue or not.

Warehouse's 'Veteran 30'
  • Modified V30 - claimed to sound better but I can't test them.
  • Cheaper - but am I paying for less quality or just not a brand name I know?


Avatar's 'Hellatone 60'
  • "Broken in" V30 sound.
  • Comes at no extra cost from Avatar cabinets (as in choosing V30's, G12K-100's or Hellatone 60's are all the same price).
  • Hear nothing but praise from Avatar.


Eminence .. I need to read more about these. I know the Vader's use custom Legends but someone here recommended Governors, too - so I will consolidate this info a bit later.

So at the moment the most intriguing to me is the Avatar 212 cabinet loaded with the Hellatone 60's. I can't play them firsthand which is a sizable con, but if they're supposed to sound like broken in V30's to which several reviews (assuming a few are plants :P) which is good. They don't cost anymore than I originally anticipated, so it fits my budget (big plus!). New gear so it would have a 1 year warranty from Avatar, also good. I can customize the tolex/grill - no tonal impact (that I know of) but I gotta' look at the damn thing so I better like it. A shallow issue - but addressed by Avatar.

Any feedback based on my new pre-decision? As in .. the preliminary decision before my actual one .. ehm .. I'll just stop typing now. xD
Current Gear:

Martin DX-1
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
ESP LTD V-500 w/ EMG 81/81
Dean Z (Explorer) w/ SD SH-4/TB-4
Marshall 2x12 w/ GT12T-75's
Avatar 2x12 w/ Hellatone 60's
Bugera 6262 Head w/ JJ 6L6's
Various Effects Pedals
#16
I have 6 different 4x12 cabinets to compare.
I'm more then happy with my Avatar Cabinet with Hellatones.
It's my primary cabinet that I bring to gigs. Just be forewarned that they are a bit heavier then a "cheaper" made cabinet.
However it's still lighter then my Vox Cabinet. I believe my Vox cabinet is close to 85 lbs!
1979 Gibson Les Paul Silverburst
James Tyler Variax JTV89
Schecter C1 Classic
Ibanez RG520QS
Greg Bennett Torino TR4

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
GSP1101 & Pod X3 Pro
Peavey 5150 & JSX
Bugera 6262 & 333XL
Carvin V3
Spider Valve HD100
#17
For the record, Hellatone speakers are actually Celestion speakers that have been broken in and have a "Hellatone" sticker slapped over the "Celestion" sticker.


Also to Harvesterofsrrw - Celestions are overpriced (I'll admit that) but they do not suck! Since they are now made in China you would expect a lower cost, but the quality is still superb.
#18
the quality of celestions is great but the chinese speakers do not sound liek the uk made ones even after they are broken in from my experiance.
and in my experiance the eminence governor sounds more liek the old vintage 30's then the chinese ones do
Member of the Schecter Hellraisers
Gear:
Esp Ltd KH-603, Schecter c-1+ and Epiphone Les Pauls
Carvin amps, Sperzel Trim-Lok, Emg active pickups only, Tonepros bridges.
#20
alright, chinese speakers aren't sounding like the british ones, but then again the british ones didn't sound like the british ones from the previous years. celestion changed their speaker recipes liked they changed their underwear, these changes reflected their needs with production, materials, and methods, just like fender and just like gibson and just like everyone else. so, older celestions will sound different than newer celestions, they just don't make them the same way year after year, it's impossible. even their heritage series that emulates the old 'recipe' takes bits and pieces from multiple recipes to get it's tone, so you won't find any vintage celestion sounding quite like it's heritage counterpart either.

so where does that leave us? well celestion is still a good sounding speaker. period. they're overpriced and made in china off an assembly line, but still good. as far as what i prefer in celestion? i like weber's remakes of pre-rola celestions, but i owned or have played with g12m's(modern and vintage), g12h(modern and vintage), alnico blues, alnico golds, g12-65(vintage), v30's, g12k-85's(before the k-100's were the 85's). for a bit of metal and detuned guitars i would pair up the v30 and a K, but if you are extensively using lower tunings(not just some drop D on some/most of yer songs) and are playing extensively high gain chug chunk death metal, then i would prefer the K's exclusively. they are stale and bland with mids but a little bit of chorus and reverb makes em sound lush.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Sep 30, 2009,