#1
Alright. I went to the store today to try out a few amps. (thread is here https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1208570)

Basic info:
Budget: none because I only want to consider these 3 amps. Don't worry, I know about all the other great amps out there..

Playing style: High gain stuff- modern metal, metal core, thrash metal. Also want to be able to play blues, rock and such.

Gigging: Yes occasionally but home practice is far more important. Needs to sound good at bedroom volumes.

Used?: no.

I'm stuck between the HT-5 (costs me ~500 USD), Bogner Alchemist 212 (725 USD) and the Line 6 Flextone III plus (410 USD). I have not tried the HT-5 (and cannot even if i wanted to) because I have to buy it from an internet dealer.

I tried the Bogner alchemist and loved it. Wasn't able to go past 1/10 volume but it stilll sounded awesome. My worry is that it'll be too loud for home practice. It's on an awesome sale though..original price is about 1200-1300 USD, and I cant get it for about 725 USD. Looks extremely well-built and I can literally feel the workmanship that's been put into this amp. I am a bit worried that it might not be gainy enough for modern metal.

I also tried the flextone...really liked the models. Probably suits me seeing as its SS and doesn't have to be cranked to sound goodt hough. At the same time I'm worried its SS sound isnt as good as tube. I'm also worried that with active pickups, this amp will clip.

Now the blackstar ht-5...I have never played it in person so I'm unable to judge it with my own ears. Do you guys think it will sound better than both amps I have listed?

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I'm not setting up a poll because I dont like it when people vote for an amp and not give a good reason.


EDIT: I saw this Tech 21 Trademark 120 amp. I have never heard of or seen this amp before. Does anyone know anything about it? or how good it is? I saw it for 500 USD.
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Last edited by HellBoy9393 at Oct 1, 2009,
#2
Halp guys!
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#3
Well if you really liked the Bogner, thats probably your best choice, if your worried it's not going to have enough gain you could always just use a pedal!
#4
I don;t think an HT-5 would be a great metal amp. Not without pedals at least. If you like the sound of the Bogner, and it is a good price, give it a go.

I don't think there is a Metal amp made that sounds good at bedroom volumes and sounds good used in a live metal band. The best you could expect is OK at bedroom volumes, awesome on stage.
#5
OK thanks guys. I'm gonna head back to the store soon and try all the amps out again. It turns out I can purchase the Line6 HD147 for the same price as the Bogner. Any opinions on that? And the flextone? I've never played with a dual rec or JCM before so I have no idea how the models compare to the real thing..
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#6
If you play styles are anywhere close to your choice of bands, I'm not too certain that the Alchemist will have that kind of gain level or voicing for metal.

The Flextone and the HT5 would be better choices for metal.
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#7
Quote by ragingkitty
If you play styles are anywhere close to your choice of bands, I'm not too certain that the Alchemist will have that kind of gain level or voicing for metal.

The Flextone and the HT5 would be better choices for metal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h8wFOF-hbs

I found this Alchemist demo..completely dry (no effects) and it sounded good for my tastes. At the store, it seemed to have enough gain when I played Master of Puppets on it.

THe flextone was very nice also..but I have never tried a real dual rec so I don't know how the dual rec model compares to the real thing. I'm also worried about not being able to run active pups through it.

EDIT: also note, I was running an ESP SG with EMG 81/85s through it...added a bit more distortion.
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Last edited by HellBoy9393 at Oct 1, 2009,
#8
Quote by HellBoy9393
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h8wFOF-hbs

I found this Alchemist demo..completely dry (no effects) and it sounded good for my tastes. At the store, it seemed to have enough gain when I played Master of Puppets on it.


That sounded just somewhat overdriven, but don't let me stop you. That's just light distortion to me, I didn't really like that tone. Also, it seemed a little flubby to me.

Quote by HellBoy9393
EDIT: also note, I was running an ESP SG with EMG 81/85s through it...added a bit more distortion.


It could have helped as well.
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#9
I'd suggest the Flextone over any of the other three. The Alchemist really isn't a metal machine (like ragingkitty already said) and the HT-5 would be very limited (not much headroom, would definitely need mic'd for shows - which sometimes isn't available, etc).

The Flextone would sound good at bedroom levels and gig levels and has wonderful sounding effects.
#10
Quote by i_am_metalhead
I'd suggest the Flextone over any of the other three. The Alchemist really isn't a metal machine (like ragingkitty already said) and the HT-5 would be very limited (not much headroom, would definitely need mic'd for shows - which sometimes isn't available, etc).

The Flextone would sound good at bedroom levels and gig levels and has wonderful sounding effects.


Will the Flextone work well with pedals or clip with actives?
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#11
Another 'metal' clip I found which I think has more 'chug' in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5zr2UuTcI

Maybe I just need to develop a better sense of tone.
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#12
Quote by HellBoy9393
Another 'metal' clip I found which I think has more 'chug' in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5zr2UuTcI

Maybe I just need to develop a better sense of tone.


Hmmm maybe you like to have a looser low end?

That was the same sound I got when I tested the Alchemist, it sounded too loose and flubby for my liking. I couldn't really escape from the flub.

Maybe an OD will help tighten it up. I'm not sure as I didn't have my OCD to OD it.
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#13
Quote by HellBoy9393
Another 'metal' clip I found which I think has more 'chug' in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5zr2UuTcI

Maybe I just need to develop a better sense of tone.


That one is really loose. The guy in your first clip has a boosted video. Try watching that one.
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#14
Quote by mmolteratx
That one is really loose. The guy in your first clip has a boosted video. Try watching that one.


Yeah I watched that. So mmolteratx, what do you say? Alchemist good enough for modern metal with a boost? Or should i just go flextone.

I want versatility, but I also want to be able to shape my tone with pedals and such. Right now I'm into metal/hard rock but in a couple of months my tastes could change entirely

I was impressed by the Flextone i'm just wary of modelling amps.
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#15
hey guys, how much do one of those really small amps cost, the one where you dont even need a cable because it already has that plug in thingie attached to it, its like a little bigger than an ipod and runs on batteries

yeah how much do you tink that is
#16
Quote by rockzilla411
hey guys, how much do one of those really small amps cost, the one where you dont even need a cable because it already has that plug in thingie attached to it, its like a little bigger than an ipod and runs on batteries

yeah how much do you tink that is



Last time I checked Google knew the answer to that question...
#17
Quote by rockzilla411
hey guys, how much do one of those really small amps cost, the one where you dont even need a cable because it already has that plug in thingie attached to it, its like a little bigger than an ipod and runs on batteries

yeah how much do you tink that is


What does this have to do with the amps I'm looking for?
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#18
You might want to consider that Line 6 HD147 - really great piece of kit and you'll find many who agree here! You might also want to consider a Vetta too.

I really like the Flextones - solid amps and great models.

Personally I find it a bit of a waste to have an amp which isn't going to sound great at bedroom levels. You could try an attenuator but they can possibly suck some of your tone away. Try looking into Weber attenuators. That way you could use your Bogner at bedroom levels and still get very decent saturated tones.

Alternatively, you could look at a lower wattage amp for bedroom practice and hope that the gigs you do occasionally have a decent PA that you could mic it up to

Good luck mate
#19
Quote by UnicronAlliance
You might want to consider that Line 6 HD147 - really great piece of kit and you'll find many who agree here! You might also want to consider a Vetta too.

I really like the Flextones - solid amps and great models.

Personally I find it a bit of a waste to have an amp which isn't going to sound great at bedroom levels. You could try an attenuator but they can possibly suck some of your tone away. Try looking into Weber attenuators. That way you could use your Bogner at bedroom levels and still get very decent saturated tones.

Alternatively, you could look at a lower wattage amp for bedroom practice and hope that the gigs you do occasionally have a decent PA that you could mic it up to

Good luck mate


Tru dat.

HD147 is a bit expensive. At 725 USD, I would seriously be looking at tube amps not SS ones. I suppose the Bogner will be too loud for home use...so now the question is Flextone or HT-5?

HT-5 will actually run me about 500 USD for the combo here..because I have to buy it online and pay for shipping. THe flextone III plus, on the other hand, is roughly 410 USD. I'm wondering if it comes with a footswitch though..

EDIT: did you know the alchemist can switch between 40W and 20W? Is 20W suitable for home use?
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Last edited by HellBoy9393 at Oct 2, 2009,
#20
Quote by HellBoy9393
EDIT: did you know the alchemist can switch between 40W and 20W? Is 20W suitable for home use?


From 40 watts to 20 watts, it'd sound like you dropped it maybe 1 and a half notches.

Lowering the wattage will make your amp clip earlier. What it means is that you'd only need to turn your amp to a lower volume for the clip to come in.

Halving the wattage is not equal to halving the volume.
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#21
I had an Alchemist 112 if you End up getting one get the head.........the Combo i had was rattling MO FO.....Drove me NUTS. You can change out the Phase Inverter and tighten up the bottom end quite a bit It has a 12ax7b Mid Gain tube. But it still not going to get to modern metal.....In the Price range You lookin and the kinds of music your playing there are better amps. I'd look for a used Peavey XXX for the money Very good sounding and Versatile amps.
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#22
Alright thanks. I think I'll just go with a Flextone. No Peavey dealers in HK.
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#23
I really liked the Alchemist. I played the combo and the half stack. The half stack was better. The built in delay and reverb worked really well imo. It is voiced a bit dark but I like that. I think it boils down to whether you want a strait up tube amp or a modeling amp. If you like lots of choices, amp models, effects, etc then get the Flextone or the HD. They will probably work better for bedroom use too. Modern metal tones will probably come easier with those too over the Alchemist. I do hear the Flextone II is better than the III but I don't remember why.

My vote is Alchemist.
#24
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I really liked the Alchemist. I played the combo and the half stack. The half stack was better. The built in delay and reverb worked really well imo. It is voiced a bit dark but I like that. I think it boils down to whether you want a strait up tube amp or a modeling amp. If you like lots of choices, amp models, effects, etc then get the Flextone or the HD. They will probably work better for bedroom use too. Modern metal tones will probably come easier with those too over the Alchemist. I do hear the Flextone II is better than the III but I don't remember why.

My vote is Alchemist.


Oh dang now I'm in a state of confusion LOL.

I was almost completely sold on buying the Alchemist. I was getting a great deal (725 USD, on musiciansfriend it's 1599USD for the 212 combo). Then everyone was saying how it's not a real Bogner because it's made by Line 6 in China?? I'm not terribly concerned whether or not it can handle modern metal. The most gain I will need is about Trivium. Anything more, I'll just throw in an OD when I need it.
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#25
I still say it boils down to what I said.

Did you say you CAN play these two? Have you played them with your guitar? Ask the store if you can borrow and OD pedal and play both again extensively. Side by side. Shoot out style.
#26
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I still say it boils down to what I said.

Did you say you CAN play these two? Have you played them with your guitar? Ask the store if you can borrow and OD pedal and play both again extensively. Side by side. Shoot out style.


LOL I tried both for about 15 minutes each. Maybe a bit more with the Flextone because I was leaning on its side. Until I realized how crap it would sound with pedals and such, and how I was limited to its presets and wasn't able to shape my own tone. I didn't notice any clipping running active EMGs through it though .

I couldn't turn the Bogner up more than 1/10 volume but at that point it sounded very nice. I loved the boost switch and punch switch. They actually made a huge difference to the sound.
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#27
I agree. At first play, I thought the Alchemist was a bit gimmicky but it didn't take long to realize that all the features on the amp DID work and worked well.

Again, if you are more focused on finding your own tone and like some decent built in delay get the Alchemist.

If you are more wanting to experiment with different models and effects, get the Line 6 stuff.

Good luck mate!
#28
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I agree. At first play, I thought the Alchemist was a bit gimmicky but it didn't take long to realize that all the features on the amp DID work and worked well.

Again, if you are more focused on finding your own tone and like some decent built in delay get the Alchemist.

If you are more wanting to experiment with different models and effects, get the Line 6 stuff.

Good luck mate!


Before taking our advice on which amp to buy... can you hear and describe the tone you want to go towards.

I understand you want the Trivium gain levels, but what kinda tones can you hear yourself playing? The tone I am referring to is like dark or bright sounding, scoop or mid range hump, loose or tight bass etc. That is very important. If the Alchemist's voicing is nothing close to what you want, no amount of pedals or multi-fx or modelling will change the Alchemist's core voicing.

Otherwise, go back to the store and start flipping models and presets until you get the tone you like, then see how close or how far that is to the Alchemist's natural tone.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 2, 2009,
#29
Quote by ragingkitty
Before taking our advice on which amp to buy... can you hear and describe the tone you want to go towards.

I understand you want the Trivium gain levels, but what kinda tones can you hear yourself playing? The tone I am referring to is like dark or bright sounding, scoop or mid range hump, loose or tight bass etc. That is very important. If the Alchemist's voicing is nothing close to what you want, no amount of pedals or multi-fx or modelling will change the Alchemist's core voicing.

Otherwise, go back to the store and start flipping models and presets until you get the tone you like, then see how close or how far that is to the Alchemist's natural tone.


I want to be able to play all styles of music.

-Nice, chimey cleans like on a Fender.
-Harmonic, pronounced overdrive...enough to get some AC/DC sounds.
-British hi-gain...think Slash's JCM.
-American hi-gain...think Mesa Dual Recs, Metallica style.
-I usually prefer loose bass for metal...but I think if i never need to tighten it up an OD will do just fine.
-Absolutely NO death metal/black metal...maybe some metalcore. Like I said, nothing more than trivium.
-Bright/dark i dont really care.
-Lots o high-end...i prefer higher mids. But i think the built-in EQ satisfies all my EQ needs.
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#30
Quote by HellBoy9393
Yeah I watched that. So mmolteratx, what do you say? Alchemist good enough for modern metal with a boost? Or should i just go flextone.

I want versatility, but I also want to be able to shape my tone with pedals and such. Right now I'm into metal/hard rock but in a couple of months my tastes could change entirely

I was impressed by the Flextone i'm just wary of modelling amps.


It could definitely do a modern metal tone with a boost. It just might not be the type of modern metal tone you want. I'd say listen to 311 and go to a store and try it with a few ODs. If you don't want to have to use pedals and you don't gig very often, I'd probably recommend the Flextone over it though.
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#31
Quote by HellBoy9393
I want to be able to play all styles of music.

-Nice, chimey cleans like on a Fender.
-Harmonic, pronounced overdrive...enough to get some AC/DC sounds.
-British hi-gain...think Slash's JCM.
-American hi-gain...think Mesa Dual Recs, Metallica style.
-I usually prefer loose bass for metal...but I think if i never need to tighten it up an OD will do just fine.
-Absolutely NO death metal/black metal...maybe some metalcore. Like I said, nothing more than trivium.
-Bright/dark i dont really care.
-Lots o high-end...i prefer higher mids. But i think the built-in EQ satisfies all my EQ needs.


A bright or dark voicing impacts the overall tone you have. An Alchemist is significantly darker than a Fender. It'll be very unlikely that you'll get a Fender tone out of an Alchemist.

I'm not sure if it occurs to you, but what you describe you want in an amp practically covers the full spectrum of amp sounds. Its not likely you'll get a Fender clean to British high gain to American high gain all in one amp dude.

For what you want, I recommend that you get the Flextone III. It has the amp and cab models to meet whatever you throw at it... plus the built-in effects will serve you well. I don't think you have a clear idea of what you want for your signature tone just yet.
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#32
Quote by ragingkitty
A bright or dark voicing impacts the overall tone you have. An Alchemist is significantly darker than a Fender. It'll be very unlikely that you'll get a Fender tone out of an Alchemist.

I'm not sure if it occurs to you, but what you describe you want in an amp practically covers the full spectrum of amp sounds. Its not likely you'll get a Fender clean to British high gain to American high gain all in one amp dude.

For what you want, I recommend that you get the Flextone III. It has the amp and cab models to meet whatever you throw at it... plus the built-in effects will serve you well. I don't think you have a clear idea of what you want for your signature tone just yet.


Yeah I think I'll be getting the Flextone. It's a learning process I guess...finding out what tone you really want and whatnot.
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#33
Quote by HellBoy9393
Yeah I think I'll be getting the Flextone. It's a learning process I guess...finding out what tone you really want and whatnot.


I think that will be the better and smarter choice.

I kinda wish I got the Flextone instead of my Spider Valve.

Or maybe you'd like to buy over my Spider Valve!?

You sure you don't want a tone to play some Sam Hui, Andy Lau, Leon Lai, Aaron Kwok or Nicholas Tse?
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Oct 8, 2009,
#34
Quote by ragingkitty
I think that will be the better and smarter choice.

I kinda wish I got the Flextone instead of my Spider Valve.

Or maybe you'd like to buy over my Spider Valve!?

You sure you don't want a tone to play some Sam Hui, Andy Lau, Leon Lai, Aaron Kwok or Nicholas Tse?


LOL you sure know your Hong Kong pop culture.

Nah, I don't listen to cantopop. And I'm not very interested in your Spider Valve, sorry I tried it at the store a few weeks ago and it was meh. the BOGNER T00BZ didn't do much to improve the sound.
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#35
Quote by HellBoy9393
LOL you sure know your Hong Kong pop culture.

Nah, I don't listen to cantopop. And I'm not very interested in your Spider Valve, sorry I tried it at the store a few weeks ago and it was meh. the BOGNER T00BZ didn't do much to improve the sound.


Well it was worth a shot hahaha.

Haha dude... I'm Chinese (by race) with my familial origins in Canton.... I'm do keep up with the Hong Kong culture hehe. Though these days my interest is more in melodeath metal.

My family watches all the see-lai-hei (dramas) and my mum puts on a lotta of Canto music in the morning. Visited HK last year... hope to go back again soon. Haha... in fact I hope to get a job in HK at some point.
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