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#1
Howdy, alright so I play guitar a little. Um my picking use to be faster and that was good. All though I took a long break and it seems like my picking should be just as fast as it once was, but it hasn't improved or even got to where it use to be. It's not a good thing, cause songs I play or invent I can't even keep up the pace I end up stumbling all over the strings. What do I need to practice in order to improve my picking.
#2
Well, for alternate picking the absolute best exercise is to get a metronome, the metronome is essential, and then just do

1234
1234
1234
1234
1234
1234

with 1234 being the fret numbers just go up and down the fret board alternate picking. If i didnt explain it well enough, just go look at some of the picking lessons on UG, most of them have this exerciese, bu seriously this is the absolute best.
#3
Practise hitting open strings and do it quicker and quicker
E.g E,D,E,A,B. And use different fingers.
#4
If by "my picking is slow" you mean that your fretting hand can't keep up with your picking hand, then:
1. Press as hard on you can on the frets when practicing, it builds up strength and muscle memory faster.
2. Try practicing legato instead of picking everything so that you don't rush your left hand with your right hand.
3. Get finger weights.
#5
If your picking is slow, be patient. Speed should not be a goal - consistency and accuracy are what you ought to shoot for. Speed is a byproduct of accuracy and consistency. Practice playing something perfectly at a slow tempo, then speed it up a tiny little bit. The get it perfect at that tempo. And so and so forth.
#6
Quote by Dynamight
If by "my picking is slow" you mean that your fretting hand can't keep up with your picking hand, then:
1. Press as hard on you can on the frets when practicing, it builds up strength and muscle memory faster.
2. Try practicing legato instead of picking everything so that you don't rush your left hand with your right hand.
3. Get finger weights.


I seriously hope this is a joke post. If not, this is honestly the most horrible advice I've seen on this forum in a while.

1. The ideal guitar technique is to be as economical and fluid as possible. Pressing hard is not necessary, and does not make economy very easy. Secondly, pressing too hard will essentially bend your note out of tune. Simply put, there is no reason to press down hard, but every reason to press down only as hard as necessary to fret the note clearly.

2. Legato is a good thing to master, yes, but that is irrelevant to the TS' post.

3. You've seriously gotta be trolling...

TS, make sure to pick with a small economical motion. Usually the pick angle of about 25 degrees feels and sounds nice to me, but you'll have to experiment with that to see what you like best both comfort-wise and sound-wise. Don't tense up and try to use your whole arm to power your picking. Make small movements that are enough to get you across the string and back. Reserve arm motion for strumming, sweeping, and string skipping. And as stated above, patience is necessary to an extent. Building guitar technique is a very intricate process, and it's likely that before you took your break you only thought you were able to pick faster due to playing uncleanly. Take this opportunity to practice properly. If you need advice in that department, watch Freepower's youtube videos and read his lessons.
Last edited by fixationdarknes at Oct 2, 2009,
#7
As some people have said technique takes years to build up.

Just concentrate on making sure every pick attack hits it's intended mark, with minimal effort. It's got to feel natural, only then can you try to pick faster.
#8
Quote by fixationdarknes
I seriously hope this is a joke post. If not, this is honestly the most horrible advice I've seen on this forum in a while.

1. The ideal guitar technique is to be as economical and fluid as possible. Pressing hard is not necessary, and does not make economy very easy. Secondly, pressing too hard will essentially bend your note out of tune. Simply put, there is no reason to press down hard, but every reason to press down only as hard as necessary to fret the note clearly.

2. Legato is a good thing to master, yes, but that is irrelevant to the TS' post.

3. You've seriously gotta be trolling...

TS, make sure to pick with a small economical motion. Usually the pick angle of about 25 degrees feels and sounds nice to me, but you'll have to experiment with that to see what you like best both comfort-wise and sound-wise. Don't tense up and try to use your whole arm to power your picking. Make small movements that are enough to get you across the string and back. Reserve arm motion for strumming, sweeping, and string skipping. And as stated above, patience is necessary to an extent. Building guitar technique is a very intricate process, and it's likely that before you took your break you only thought you were able to pick faster due to playing uncleanly. Take this opportunity to practice properly. If you need advice in that department, watch Freepower's youtube videos and read his lessons.

1. If it's not necessary, you haven't explained why. Pressing hard is for practicing, not playing, so the fact that it bends the string out of tune is irrelevant. It builds up accuracy and hand synchronization so that you can play faster and more cleanly when you play with normal pressure. If you deny that then you don't really know what you're talking about.

2. You don't know that it's irrelevant, since he didn't specify what part of his playing makes him pick slower. The fretting hand is almost always the bottleneck in picking speed.

3. You're dismissing without explaining why, which is more akin to trolling than what I'm doing.

Ironically, your own advice is useless. He said he used to be able to pick fast and lost some of his speed after a break, he didn't say he changed his way of picking, so clearly there is no issue with his picking motion and angle. Your advice only applies to beginners who have never reached a satisfying picking speed.

If you think I'm giving horrible advice, then you must not be a very good player, much less a good instructor.
#9
Quote by Dynamight
1. If it's not necessary, you haven't explained why. Pressing hard is for practicing, not playing, so the fact that it bends the string out of tune is irrelevant. It builds up accuracy and hand synchronization so that you can play faster and more cleanly when you play with normal pressure.



When practicing you should be playing so that you don't have to change your technique when you're not practicing. Getting used to having to press hard is counter-productive of the end goal.

Quote by Dynamight

If you deny that then you don't really know what you're talking about.


good logic

Quote by Dynamight

2. You don't know that it's irrelevant, since he didn't specify what part of his playing makes him pick slower. The fretting hand is almost always the bottleneck in picking speed.


Picking is picking, fretting is fretting. Not my fault if TS didn't specify.

Quote by Dynamight

3. You're dismissing without explaining why, which is more akin to trolling than what I'm doing.


Not really. If something is so obviously ridiculous I don't feel the need to explain. But I will anyway just for you. Playing guitar involves the use of very intricate muscles. This isn't football/powerlifting. The lack of the ability to play something on guitar doesn't have to do with muscle strength, but rather your coordination of movements. You're better off training how you would when you would be playing.

Quote by Dynamight

Ironically, your own advice is useless. He said he used to be able to pick fast and lost some of his speed after a break, he didn't say he changed his way of picking, so clearly there is no issue with his picking motion and angle. Your advice only applies to beginners who have never reached a satisfying picking speed.


I'm not saying his picking technique has been changed, but rather that he possibly has a different perspective now. When guitarists mature often times they realize that they used to play messily.

Quote by Dynamight

If you think I'm giving horrible advice, then you must not be a very good player, much less a good instructor.


Jumping to conclusions about me as a guitarist is definitely helping your argument.
Last edited by fixationdarknes at Oct 3, 2009,
#10
Quote by Dynamight
If by "my picking is slow" you mean that your fretting hand can't keep up with your picking hand, then:
1. Press as hard on you can on the frets when practicing, it builds up strength and muscle memory faster.
2. Try practicing legato instead of picking everything so that you don't rush your left hand with your right hand.
3. Get finger weights.
1. That won't improve his picking speed.
2. He should pick as much as possible when trying to build picking speed.
3. Same as number one.
#11
I love all the people that say 'doing this twice as fast or twice as hard or twice as x' will help you with your playing. The thing that will help your technique is playing how you should whilst concentrating on doing it properly. End of story.

Telling someone to press hard so they can play light is exactly the same as the people that say going to the gym helps because it makes you physically stronger. Lol.
#12
Quote by fixationdarknes
When practicing you should be playing so that you don't have to change your technique when you're not practicing. Getting used to having to press hard is counter-productive of the end goal.

That contradicts too much practice advice I've seen to be credible. Regardless, pressing hard on the frets is not something you can get used to—if it were then everyone would do it, since everyone press as hard as they can on the strings when they first start playing guitar—it's one of many practicing tips that you don't actually do while you're playing but improve your general performance when you do. The fact is, it worked for me and everyone else I know who's done it, and when it comes to playing guitar what do people base their advice on other than personal experience?

Quote by fixationdarknes
Picking is picking, fretting is fretting. Not my fault if TS didn't specify.

Except I didn't dismiss your advice because I thought it irrelevant to the OP's inquiry, you did mine.

Quote by fixationdarknes
Not really. If something is so obviously ridiculous I don't feel the need to explain.

Creationists also think that evolution is obviously ridiculous and don't feel the need to explain why it is; people who used to think the earth is flat also dismissed any contrary evidence as obviously ridiculous, they even executed people for uttering it. If one is a troll based on another's personal conception of what is obvious and ridiculous, then everyone is a troll.

Quote by fixationdarknes
But I will anyway just for you. Playing guitar involves the use of very intricate muscles. This isn't football/powerlifting. The lack of the ability to play something on guitar doesn't have to do with muscle strength, but rather your coordination of movements. You're better off training how you would when you would be playing.

If I didn't know you were grasping at straws here I'd seriously consider that you're an idiot. The lack of ability to play doesn't have to do with finger strength? Lol. I guess that's why this lesson exists, or this one, or this video by Paul Gilbert mentioning twice how he strengthened his fingers, hell I guess that's why they even invented finger weights in the first place then. But you know better than all of them, right? They're wrong and you're right, right?

As for coordination of movements, one doesn't exclude the other. I'd say strength even contributes to coordination. In fact, everything you do on the guitar has to do with finger and arm strength, so developing it gets you there faster.

Quote by fixationdarknes
I'm not saying his picking technique has been changed, but rather that he possibly has a different perspective now. When guitarists mature often times they realize that they used to play messily.

Yes, and the OP is sure going to agree with you that he used to play messily. He implied he was satisfied at how he had played and wanted to get back to that level, so your advice is still useless in context.

Quote by fixationdarknes
Jumping to conclusions about me as a guitarist is definitely helping your argument.

My argument doesn't need help, since yours already pales in comparison.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#13
Quote by leephan
1. That won't improve his picking speed.
2. He should pick as much as possible when trying to build picking speed.
3. Same as number one.

1. Correction: It won't improve his picking. The kind of picking speed he mentioned depends on fretting speed, you can't have one without the other.
2. Same as 1.
3. Same as 1.

Quote by Ikonoklast
I love all the people that say 'doing this twice as fast or twice as hard or twice as x' will help you with your playing. The thing that will help your technique is playing how you should whilst concentrating on doing it properly. End of story.

Telling someone to press hard so they can play light is exactly the same as the people that say going to the gym helps because it makes you physically stronger. Lol.

Are you implying that going to the gym and working out doesn't make you physically stronger? I... don't know what to answer to that.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#14
Quote by Dynamight
1. Correction: It won't improve his picking. The kind of picking speed he mentioned depends on fretting speed, you can't have one without the other.
2. Same as 1.
3. Same as 1.


Are you implying that going to the gym and working out doesn't make you physically stronger? I... don't know what to answer to that.

You're absolutely ridiculous. If you couldn't see that i was implying it in a guitar-related context then you're stupid. Although, i just suspect you're trying to be argumentative and belittle people.

You base arguments for things on stupid examples.

I can't be bothered to quote, but the thing about finger weights. You imply that the fact they exist obviously means that it works. Which is laughable. They exist because stupid teenagers who play guitar and just want to play as fast as they can are gullible and will buy them.
#15
Quote by Dynamight
1. If it's not necessary, you haven't explained why. Pressing hard is for practicing, not playing, so the fact that it bends the string out of tune is irrelevant. It builds up accuracy and hand synchronization so that you can play faster and more cleanly when you play with normal pressure. If you deny that then you don't really know what you're talking about.

2. You don't know that it's irrelevant, since he didn't specify what part of his playing makes him pick slower. The fretting hand is almost always the bottleneck in picking speed.

3. You're dismissing without explaining why, which is more akin to trolling than what I'm doing.

Ironically, your own advice is useless. He said he used to be able to pick fast and lost some of his speed after a break, he didn't say he changed his way of picking, so clearly there is no issue with his picking motion and angle. Your advice only applies to beginners who have never reached a satisfying picking speed.

If you think I'm giving horrible advice, then you must not be a very good player, much less a good instructor.


No, you aren't giving horrible advice, you're giving god-awful advice. Don't bother posting in this thread until you actually understand what you're talking about.
Quote by Junior#1
Gilbert mutes with both hands. Palm muting and left hand muting. As for anchoring, he doesn't. He doesn't need to. After all, he's the creator of life, the universe, and everything.
#16
Quote by Ikonoklast
You're absolutely ridiculous. If you couldn't see that i was implying it in a guitar-related context then you're stupid. Although, i just suspect you're trying to be argumentative and belittle people.

So you're saying that advising someone to strengthen their arms and fingers to improve their performance on the guitar is the same as advising them to go to a gym and work out in order to do the same? But that's simply incorrect; you need your fingers and arms to play a guitar, not your entire body. Or is your argument that you don't need physical strength at all to perform well on the guitar? How is that not absolutely ridiculous? Any motion of the body needs strength:

"Muscle (from Latin musculus, diminutive of mus "mouse"[1]) is the contractile tissue of the body [...] Their function is to produce force and cause motion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle

Quote by Ikonoklast
You base arguments for things on stupid examples.

Do you ever use any other arguments than ad hominem or appeals to ignorance? The fact that you disagree with me doesn't mean me or my examples are stupid; it just means you don't or refuse to understand them.

Quote by Ikonoklast
I can't be bothered to quote, but the thing about finger weights. You imply that the fact they exist obviously means that it works. Which is laughable. They exist because stupid teenagers who play guitar and just want to play as fast as they can are gullible and will buy them.

What proof do you have that it doesn't work? Have you tested it? And despite what you said, I didn't use the fact that it exists as evidence that it works; but since people actually bother to sell them and people who buy them seem satisfied, there is much more reason for someone to doubt that it works just because a couple of forumers say so without any evidence whatsoever, than that it doesn't.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#17
Quote by plainsight
No, you aren't giving horrible advice, you're giving god-awful advice. Don't bother posting in this thread until you actually understand what you're talking about.

Oh wow, that was witty. Well, I will bother posting now, since I do actually understand what I'm talking about.

If my advice is bad, no one here has managed to explain why it is beyond just saying it's bad. You've not helped that.
#18
Quote by Dynamight
So you're saying that advising someone to strengthen their arms and fingers to improve their performance on the guitar is the same as advising them to go to a gym and work out in order to do the same? But that's simply incorrect; you need your fingers and arms to play a guitar, not your entire body. Or is your argument that you don't need physical strength at all to perform well on the guitar? How is that not absolutely ridiculous? Any motion of the body needs strength:

"Muscle (from Latin musculus, diminutive of mus "mouse"[1]) is the contractile tissue of the body [...] Their function is to produce force and cause motion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle


Do you ever use any other arguments than ad hominem or appeals to ignorance? The fact that you disagree with me doesn't mean me or my examples are stupid; it just means you don't or refuse to understand them.


What proof do you have that it doesn't work? Have you tested it? And despite what you said, I didn't use the fact that it exists as evidence that it works; but since people actually bother to sell them and people who buy them seem satisfied, there is much more reason for someone to doubt that it works just because a couple of forumers say so without any evidence whatsoever, than that it doesn't.

What are you even talking about?

You just put a lot of words in my mouth.
Yes playing guitar requires some amount of physical strength, but the amount of strength needed is minimal - if you can manage to press a string down so it can make a sound that's all you need. Now, children can do this. So advising adults to press down firmly and advocating finger strengtheners is total tosh.

If you don't need to press down hard then there's no point in ever doing it.

You never need to press down hard, and pressing hard so 'playing lightly is easy' is just stupid logic because if you have the strength to press a string down and get a noise out of it, you just have to work on THAT skill.

And congrats on your rhetoric and your clever citing of articles, but it doesn't back up what you're saying, and doesn't make you look smart.

Would you advise someone to pick extremely agressively so they can pick well when doing it smaller? The motions and actions to do it are completely different.

IT's like telling someone to practice pushing a fire-engine so pushing a shopping trolley round Tesco becomes easier.
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Oct 3, 2009,
#19
@TS - listen to fixationdarkness

Also, focus more on getting your hand in synch than on picking fast, as coordination between your picking and fretting hands is likely to be the root of your problem. Don't try and force speed - play everything as cleanly and accurately as possible, however slowly you need to play to do that, and you'll speed up a lot quicker than by trying to force it.

@Dynamight - quit double posting

Pressing as hard as you can will just introduce unneccessary tension, and could lead to injury.
#20
Quote by Ikonoklast
What are you even talking about?

You just put a lot of words in my mouth.
Yes playing guitar requires some amount of physical strength, but the amount of strength needed is minimal - if you can manage to press a string down so it can make a sound that's all you need. Now, children can do this. So advising adults to press down firmly and advocating finger strengtheners is total tosh.

If you don't need to press down hard then there's no point in ever doing it.

False. The strength you need to merely press a string down is nothing compared to the strength you need for fast picking and fretting. If it were as you say, beginners would be able to shred more or less accurately in a matter of days.

I also didn't say you needed to fret hard or use finger weights to reach a certain level, I said you reached that level faster and with less practice if you did. There's a difference.

Quote by Ikonoklast
You never need to press down hard, and pressing hard so 'playing lightly is easy' is just stupid logic because if you have the strength to press a string down and get a noise out of it, you just have to work on THAT skill.

And congrats on your rhetoric and your clever citing of articles, but it doesn't back up what you're saying, and doesn't make you look smart.

Would you advise someone to pick extremely agressively so they can pick well when doing it smaller? The motions and actions to do it are completely different.

Now who's putting words in whose mouth? When did I say pressing hard makes pressing "lightly" easy? I only said it improves accuracy and hand synchronization. There's no difficulty in pressing "lightly", just as there's no difficulty pressing hard (though there might be pain, and pain also contributes to strength).

Also, I wouldn't expect you to admit that I look smart or that my sources back-up what I'm saying, because it would make you look like an idiot and prove you're wrong.

Quote by Ikonoklast
IT's like telling someone to practice pushing a fire-engine so pushing a shopping trolley round Tesco becomes easier.

Yes, the years of practice and patience needed to learn to play guitar fast are comparable to the seconds needed to learn to push a cart. Great analogy.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#21
Quote by zhilla
@TS - listen to fixationdarkness

Also, focus more on getting your hand in synch than on picking fast, as coordination between your picking and fretting hands is likely to be the root of your problem. Don't try and force speed - play everything as cleanly and accurately as possible, however slowly you need to play to do that, and you'll speed up a lot quicker than by trying to force it.

@Dynamight - quit double posting

Pressing as hard as you can will just introduce unneccessary tension, and could lead to injury.

Which is why your advice is bad, Dynamight.

Hence the shopping trolley analogy;

It doesn't take a great deal of energy to push a trolley, so you wouldn't push something heavier to 'work out' for it, because you don't need to.

We don't NEED to press hard to fret a note, which is why we don't. It's a waste of energy.

You can now go away, cause anything else you say is futile and just plain wrong.
#22
Quote by zhilla
@Dynamight - quit double posting

Or what? I've read the rules, nothing says I can't double post.

Quote by zhilla
Pressing as hard as you can will just introduce unneccessary tension, and could lead to injury.

If you'd bothered to read my previous replies, you'd see the tension you refer to is irrelevant; pressing hard is only for practice, just like any other awkward techniques that aren't directly used in playing but improve your performance. And if you have evidence that it could lead to injury more than anything else people already do on the guitar, I'd like to see it.
#23
Quote by Ikonoklast
Which is why your advice is bad, Dynamight.

Hence the shopping trolley analogy;

It doesn't take a great deal of energy to push a trolley, so you wouldn't push something heavier to 'work out' for it, because you don't need to.

We don't NEED to press hard to fret a note, which is why we don't. It's a waste of energy.

You can now go away, cause anything else you say is futile and just plain wrong.

Like I said, you have no evidence that it has a significant chance of causing injury, just speculation. As for the rest, read my previous reply to you. As for going away, I'll do so when you stop arguing, which you should do if your mind is already set about me being wrong and what I say being futile. I didn't ask for a debate when I posted here at first, and I didn't start one, so it's not my responsibility to stop it.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#24
Quote by Dynamight
Or what? I've read the rules, nothing says I can't double post.


If you'd bothered to read my previous replies, you'd see the tension you refer to is irrelevant; pressing hard is only for practice, just like any other awkward techniques that aren't directly used in playing but improve your performance. And if you have evidence that it could lead to injury more than anything else people already do on the guitar, I'd like to see it.

#25
Ah, ok. I didn't see the more detailed rules topic. Sorry for double posting, then.
#26
Juz remember, right hand ex are just as important as left hand ex....

Try this, take any single note on the fretboard....say the 15th fret of the A string, and tremolo pick till failure...meaning, till you feel like ur arms gona drop off....but PLZ DONT INJURE YOURSELF....if ya feel pain, stop.....
"Well, yeah, sometimes I get a little too creative."
~Bruce Dickinson~



-------------------------
"Various equipments"
#27
Quote by Dynamight
Or what? I've read the rules, nothing says I can't double post.


If you'd bothered to read my previous replies, you'd see the tension you refer to is irrelevant; pressing hard is only for practice, just like any other awkward techniques that aren't directly used in playing but improve your performance. And if you have evidence that it could lead to injury more than anything else people already do on the guitar, I'd like to see it.

There isn't much point practicing one way and then playing differently. You don't need to push down hard to make notes ring out and you can feel that it isn't good for your fingers as they tire faster and become a lot more sore when pressing down harder.

TS, the only proven way to increase speed is to practice exercises (which you can find stickied in this forum section) slowly at first until you can play it perfectly at that tempo, then slowly increasing your speed. At slow tempo's you should focus on minimal excess movement of your fingers and picking motion, then speed it up 5 - 10 bpm at a time.

I wish people would argue less in this forum, people aren't accurate in their advice all the time (me included). If you disagree you should state why you disagree, present your own advice then leave it at that.
^Note: Probably sarcastic
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Quote by crisisinheaven
Deep*Kick. You have destroyed every concept of life I've ever had.
#28
TS: Dynamight has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

You are asking to improve your picking technique. There are multiple ways to do this.

First of all, you could take a simple metronome and practice picking, say, 16th notes in time to a certain BPM. Use a website/program like this:

http://www.metronomeonline.com/

Now, start at say, 100 BPM. inbetween every click you should be able to hit 4 consecutive notes in time to the next click -- can you do that? If you can, go up to the next amount. Keep going until you can make that 208 BPM. Depending on your practice schedule, it'll take anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks of dedicated practice. When you pick fast, try and use motion from both the wrist and the elbow -- moreso 60/40 wrist/elbow as too much elbow picking will make it harder to pick faster, but your wrist will tire out much easier by itself.

Now, if you follow that, your picking will definitely speed up quite a bit. But likely, you don't want to just tremolo pick, you want to be able to play through scales at this speed. This is what Dynamight was likely trying to insinuate, but he gave poor methods to do this.

Take a scale, for example this one:

E-------------------------------------------7-9-10--
B----------------------------------7-9-10-----------
G-------------------------6-7-9---------------------
D-----------------6-7-9-----------------------------
A---------5-7-9-------------------------------------
E-5-7-9---------------------------------------------

Use the metronome and practice going up and down on this pattern, alternate picking every note using 16th notes (so, although these have three notes on a string, you should be hitting 4 notes in every beat.) Practice alternate picking every note throughout -- speed up when you feel ready. You may find, depending on your fretting hand's speed, you'll have to slow down your picking to what you're capable of, to a lower BPM. It's fine, focus more on synchronization of the hands -- if you can pick faster then your left hand can move, it will sound messy and there will be odd groupings of notes.

Also, do not stay on one BPM (especially very slow ones) for a long time -- muscle memory will basically block you from moving on from that speed. You should be moving up to the next possible BPM at least once a day, if not more.

Construct a good schedule to do things like these (you can move on to a different scale or finger patterns if you are bored of this run) at least an hour or two a day if you're busy, push 3+ hours if you're not. The more your practice, the better.
#29
Quote by Deep*Kick
There isn't much point practicing one way and then playing differently. You don't need to push down hard to make notes ring out and you can feel that it isn't good for your fingers as they tire faster and become a lot more sore when pressing down harder.

Then why do people practice boring chromatic 1-2-3-4 sequences from one string to another if they are going to play 3 notes per string scales, why do people practice stretching the index and ring finger by 4 frets if they are normally going to play the same thing with their pinky instead of the ring finger, why do people practice stuff like the worm, the spider, the slinky, and other uncomfortable techniques, if they'll not be using them in normal playing? Because they're exercises for your hands and are meant to build up your strength and flexibility, thus your control over the fretboard. Sure, you don't specifically need these exercises to play really fast; and sure, your hand will tire or become sore eventually (like they will anyway when practicing), but you'll have progressed much more than you would have otherwise.

Quote by Deep*Kick
I wish people would argue less in this forum, people aren't accurate in their advice all the time (me included). If you disagree you should state why you disagree, present your own advice then leave it at that.

So people are allowed to state why they disagree with my advice, but I'm not allowed to state why I disagree with their disagreement? Seriously?

Quote by itstheman
TS: Dynamight has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

And how does the OP know you know what you're talking about, and thus should trust your opinion that I don't know what I'm talking about?
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#30
Can we get a ban in here or something?

I don't want this guy running around giving out false advice.
#33
You think wrong. Besides, it's not really possible to prove false advice short of testing it yourself and seeing if it works. And then you're only proving it to yourself, not others.
#34
Quote by Dynamight
You'll have to prove it's false advice first. Tough luck.


As the giver of the advice, it's on you to prove it, or at least give enough evidence that it's plausible.

So the conventional wisdom about guitar technique is that it's about muscle memory. You play with good technique (even if you have to slow down a lot at first to do this), then play over and over until the good technique becomes muscle memory.

You mentioned that sometimes people play things differently when practicing to improve their technique, for example the spider exercise. But from a physical, technique standpoint, are these things really different? Although the spider exercise sounds a lot different than a real lick, moving between different fingers while playing is something you do with every lick. Things like the spider exercise just focus it so that you can concentrate on just that one thing.

So, since it's on you to back up your advice - please explain why pressing down harder than necessary on the strings helps you build up the muscle memory of good technique.
#36
Quote by hxc-violinist
Whoa got a **** ton of advice right there. The fighting really ain't necessary though.

It is when someone's giving out advice that could hurt someone.

Lets say, to play guitar you need to put |----------| pressure onto the fretboard.

Someone like Satriani would put this sort of pressure down.

For someone then to advocate putting a dangerous amount of pressure:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| down.

Ridiculous.

I know it's a stupid example but i'm trying to make people visualise it.

If you only need x amount of pressure to do something then this is the maximum pressure you should practice at. Anything else is a waste. Full stop.
#37
Quote by se012101
As the giver of the advice, it's on you to prove it, or at least give enough evidence that it's plausible.

That's rich. I have to prove my advice, but the other posters don't? The guy who suggested to practice chromatic runs didn't explain why doing so is useful, or more so than any other technique, neither did the guy who suggested to use motion from the wrist to the elbow. I don't see you rebuking them.

Not that I think any of these advices is wrong, or incompatible with mine, because they're perfectly compatible.

Besides, there's no way for me to prove my advice, just as there's no way for you to prove yours. It's not exact science, it's personal experience; something I've been advised to do and which observably worked for me. It's up to the OP to judge which advice he's going to take.

Quote by se012101
So the conventional wisdom about guitar technique is that it's about muscle memory. You play with good technique (even if you have to slow down a lot at first to do this), then play over and over until the good technique becomes muscle memory.

You just described the basic procedure to learn just about anything. All the advices given in this thread already depend on this, including mine. I doubt the OP started this thread so someone can tell him that he can learn stuff by practicing them repetitively. It's something everyone already knows by experience. The question here isn't how to practice, but what to practice.

Quote by se012101
You mentioned that sometimes people play things differently when practicing to improve their technique, for example the spider exercise. But from a physical, technique standpoint, are these things really different? Although the spider exercise sounds a lot different than a real lick, moving between different fingers while playing is something you do with every lick. Things like the spider exercise just focus it so that you can concentrate on just that one thing.

So, since it's on you to back up your advice - please explain why pressing down harder than necessary on the strings helps you build up the muscle memory of good technique.

I'm using the same reasoning as the one who said that practicing something and playing something that isn't exactly the same isn't useful. Technically, practicing the spider lick gets you used to playing the spider lick, making you less used to play something else. The same principle would apply to fretting harder; and I don't even mean pushing the string all the way to the fretboard so it goes out of tune, just enough to feel the string vibrating to your pickstroke fully until the next pickstroke—ensuring you don't glide over it too fast, mute it by accident or stay too long on it and at the same time strengthening your fingers so they move faster and more accurately. If you'd ever tried this, you'd know pressing hard is not something you can get used to, because unlike most things you practice on guitar it requires consistent conscious effort. When you get back to playing normal your fingers will naturally get back to normal pressure, because the body naturally avoids unconscious effort; the difference is you will play more cleanly with as much practice time than you would otherwise, because other than strengthening your fingers the technique forces you to feel the pickstroke as much as possible with your fretting hand.

Quote by Ikonoklast
It is when someone's giving out advice that could hurt someone.

Lets say, to play guitar you need to put |----------| pressure onto the fretboard.

Someone like Satriani would put this sort of pressure down.

For someone then to advocate putting a dangerous amount of pressure:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| down.

Ridiculous.

I know it's a stupid example but i'm trying to make people visualise it.

If you only need x amount of pressure to do something then this is the maximum pressure you should practice at. Anything else is a waste. Full stop.

Again, you are declaring that my advice is harmful with absolutely no evidence that it is. What is it that makes you allow yourself to claim absolute truth of mere speculation? You don't know everything, you don't know if you haven't left out a few parameters to reach your conclusion, you haven't tested the technique; so what makes you so sure it doesn't work?
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
#38
We don't need to prove our arguments : they're tried and tested. You are being argumental without any proof.

What we're suggesting works, end of story. And just because someone doesn't rebuke someone elses advice doesn't make yours right. The burden of proof is on you to prove yourself, especially seeing as though your argument isn't tried and tested. Advising someone to do something which is scientifically proven to harm people isn't good.

Advising someone to practice using minimum force goes some way to stopping RSI, Carpal Tunnel and other injuries. Pressing as hard as you can is NOT a good thing, however you TRY to justify or prove it.
#39
Quote by Dynamight
That's rich. I have to prove my advice, but the other posters don't? The guy who suggested to practice chromatic runs didn't explain why doing so is useful, or more so than any other technique, neither did the guy who suggested to use motion from the wrist to the elbow. I don't see you rebuking them.

Not that I think any of these advices is wrong, or incompatible with mine, because they're perfectly compatible.

Besides, there's no way for me to prove my advice, just as there's no way for you to prove yours. It's not exact science, it's personal experience; something I've been advised to do and which observably worked for me. It's up to the OP to judge which advice he's going to take.


You just described the basic procedure to learn just about anything. All the advices given in this thread already depend on this, including mine. I doubt the OP started this thread so someone can tell him that he can learn stuff by practicing them repetitively. It's something everyone already knows by experience. The question here isn't how to practice, but what to practice.


I'm using the same reasoning as the one who said that practicing something and playing something that isn't exactly the same isn't useful. Technically, practicing the spider lick gets you used to playing the spider lick, making you less used to play something else. The same principle would apply to fretting harder; and I don't even mean pushing the string all the way to the fretboard so it goes out of tune, just enough to feel the string vibrating to your pickstroke fully until the next pickstroke—ensuring you don't glide over it too fast, mute it by accident or stay too long on it and at the same time strengthening your fingers so they move faster and more accurately. If you'd ever tried this, you'd know pressing hard is not something you can get used to, because unlike most things you practice on guitar it requires consistent conscious effort. When you get back to playing normal your fingers will naturally get back to normal pressure, because the body naturally avoids unconscious effort; the difference is you will play more cleanly with as much practice time than you would otherwise, because other than strengthening your fingers the technique forces you to feel the pickstroke as much as possible with your fretting hand.


Again, you are declaring that my advice is harmful with absolutely no evidence that it is. What is it that makes you allow yourself to claim absolute truth of mere speculation? You don't know everything, you don't know if you haven't left out a few parameters to reach your conclusion, you haven't tested the technique; so what makes you so sure it doesn't work?

What makes you so sure it does? And i have personal experience with pressing too hard (not on purpose) and all it does is makes you ache.
#40
Quote by Ikonoklast
We don't need to prove our arguments : they're tried and tested. You are being argumental without any proof.

If your advice is tried and tested, then prove that it's tried and tested. Shouldn't be too hard if it is, right? Don't you feel, just a bit, the stingy irony of telling me my arguments have no proof, when yours have none?

By the way, "argumental" isn't a word.

Quote by Ikonoklast
What we're suggesting works, end of story. And just because someone doesn't rebuke someone elses advice doesn't make yours right. The burden of proof is on you to prove yourself, especially seeing as though your argument isn't tried and tested. Advising someone to do something which is scientifically proven to harm people isn't good.

Lol, now I know you're grasping at straws. I'm not trying to be right. Advice is not a statement of fact, it's as right as the person using it benefits from it; and I, along with other persons, happen to benefit from it, which means it's right for me and therefore may be right for others, just like anyone else's advice. I'm well aware my advice may not work for everyone, just as yours may not; that doesn't mean either is not valid.

"And just because someone doesn't rebuke someone elses advice doesn't make yours right." How can it? I don't remember saying otherwise, it wouldn't make sense. If anything, the fact that someone else rebukes my advice doesn't make you, or that person right.

As for a burden of proof. Again, you have as much burden of proof for your advice as I do for mine, despite what you say, and we both have the same amount of proof: none. It's scientifically proven to harm people? Okay, show me the scientific proof and we'll agree. I love seeing facts and will gladly admit my wrong if you do.

Quote by Ikonoklast
Advising someone to practice using minimum force goes some way to stopping RSI, Carpal Tunnel and other injuries. Pressing as hard as you can is NOT a good thing, however you TRY to justify or prove it.

I didn't suggest to press as hard as you can, you are using way too many straw-man arguments. I just suggested to press harder, if you can't read go back to school. Either way, all you do is speculate and deal with absolutes. I've never heard of anyone getting injured from fretting harder and I've seen quite a few people benefit from it, so consider that you may not know everything and leave the benefit of doubt.

Quote by Ikonoklast
What makes you so sure it does? And i have personal experience with pressing too hard (not on purpose) and all it does is makes you ache.

Isn't it obvious what makes me so sure it does? I've tried it and it worked for me. As for your personal experience, fair enough, but it is only your personal experience and doesn't mean everyone will have the same experience. Like I said, I'm aware it may not work for everyone, but what you are saying is that it will work for no one. And for that you have no evidence.
Last edited by Dynamight at Oct 3, 2009,
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