#1
I have an electro harmonix English muff'n tube pedal and its a pretty good pedal but i was wondering if there were any better tube powered pedals on the market?
#2
Quote by VoodooStones
I have an electro harmonix English muff'n tube pedal and its a pretty good pedal but i was wondering if there were any better tube powered pedals on the market?



Tube pedals are bull. You can't run a tube properly with the voltages available in a pedal. Its just a money gimmick.
#4
Quote by stykerwolf
12-7 type tubes run fine at 12 volts, other then that they prolly won't do much.


This.
Gear:
Schecter Hellraiser Deluxe
Boss DS-1
Crate GTD65

GAS List:
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster
#5
What amp you running - if there is a difference between tube and ss pedals you won't notice it until you get a high end amp, at which point you probably have a nice tube overdrive in your amp anyway.
#6
Quote by stykerwolf
12-7 type tubes run fine at 12 volts, other then that they prolly won't do much.



Um, no they won't. 12ax7 and similar type tubes typically run at 300v plate voltage.
#7
^transformers?
not looked into the electronics much but i reckon it could be done/is done
#8
Ever heard of a transformer? Good.


Amps -> volts. Quite a lot of volts really. Enough to run a tube, infact.
If video games make you violent, does monopoly make you a millionaire?
#9
Quote by doive
^transformers?
not looked into the electronics much but i reckon it could be done/is done



Take this as an example. If you read this description on this pedal it claims to have 300v plate voltage. Now zoom in on the power supply. You notice its only 12v at 1000mA. There is no way you get 300v out of 12v at 1000mA. - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Electro-Harmonix-Classics-LPB-2ube-Stereo-Tube-Preamp-Guitar-Effects-Pedal-153326-i1124722.gc


Its all a gimmick. I build tube amps DIY pedals as a hobby, as I included a pic of one below. My amp has transformers, as do all tube amps. The Power transformer turns the 110v wall voltage into the high voltage DC I need for my amp. You can't get those high voltages with a 12v "wall wart" power supply. Period.

Last edited by Matt420740 at Oct 3, 2009,
#11
Is that a plastic enclosure?
If video games make you violent, does monopoly make you a millionaire?
#12
Quote by Sguit
http://damagecontrolusa.com/products/liquid-blues/



Oh no, they must be lying because apparently "You can't get those high voltages with a 12v power supply. Period. "



Actually that one is only 9V. Look at the back.

I'm sure there are some high end boutique pedals out there that run on full plate voltage, but not many. And they certainly don't do it with 12v power supplys. There is a DIY pedal called the Real McTube which actually runs at a pretty high plate voltage, but it contains 2 transformers, and it uses 110v wall voltage to power them.

You people think what you want, but go over to the tube amp building forum at AX84.com and try to tell them you can run a tube properly on 9 - 12V. See what they tell you.
Last edited by Matt420740 at Oct 3, 2009,
#13
Blackstar pedals also run at full plate voltage.

Anyway, I have a Radial Tonebone classic distortion, and it runs at low voltage, but it still sounds great, so it's not because a tube pedal runs on low voltage that it's not good
#14
Quote by Matt420740
You can't get those high voltages with a 12v power supply. Period.
This is simply untrue. Period.
#15
Quote by fly135
This is simply untrue. Period.



Then tell me, if you could get those voltages out of a 12V wall wart power supply without any type of transformer inside the pedal, then why do all tube amps have power transformers? And why do all tube amps run on wall voltage instead of 12V? Ask yourself that question. The way they make these pedals work is called starved plate voltage.
#16
I own a Blackstar Ht-DistX pedal, they say that they operate on 300V. Don't have the pedal with me so I can check it out in detail. Anyway even if the valve it is a sales gimmic just lights up to look nice, it is still THE BEST distortion pedal I played with.
Ibanez 540S, Randall RG50TC, Blackstar HT-DISTX, Ibanez TS-808
#17
Quote by Matt420740
Then tell me, if you could get those voltages out of a 12V wall wart power supply without any type of transformer inside the pedal
I never said you don't need a transformer. Voltage isn't the same as power. And high voltage doesn't mean high power. An invertor and a xformer can give you any voltage you need.

....then why do all tube amps have power transformers?
Because it's a practical way to transform voltage.

.. And why do all tube amps run on wall voltage instead of 12V?
Because wall power is a practical way to get power.

.. Ask yourself that question. The way they make these pedals work is called starved plate voltage.
Yes I know most tube pedals run on lower voltages. That isn't the statement I took issue.

I have an Art tube preamp that uses a 12v power supply and the tube runs at 48V. Why they chose that voltage I can't say, but contrary to your claim you can convert 12V to 300V if you want to.
#18
Quote by WantzChas
I own a Blackstar Ht-DistX pedal, they say that they operate on 300V. Don't have the pedal with me so I can check it out in detail. Anyway even if the valve it is a sales gimmic just lights up to look nice, it is still THE BEST distortion pedal I played with.
I have a Hafler T3 tube preamp that uses wall voltage but runs the tubes at low voltage. It sounds better than the preamp on the Classic 30.
#19
Ever heard of Matsumin's ValveCaster? It runs on 12 volts, with one 12AU7 for two gain stages. And trust me, it definitely can be used as an overdrive. 12AU7's have less gain than 12AX7, by the way.
Listen for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cMqYlhSQ8c

Edit:
Quote by fly135
I never said you don't need a transformer. Voltage isn't the same as power. And high voltage doesn't mean high power. An invertor and a xformer can give you any voltage you need.

A transformer alone can't increase voltage, it simply converts AC to DC.

Quote by fly135

I have an Art tube preamp that uses a 12v power supply and the tube runs at 48V. Why they chose that voltage I can't say, but contrary to your claim you can convert 12V to 300V if you want to.


You could do that using ICs like the MAX1044, but it would pull a huge amount of current. With batteries it would be nearly impossible to keep it running long, and it simply wouldn't be feasible for 300V.
Gear:
Schecter Hellraiser Deluxe
Boss DS-1
Crate GTD65

GAS List:
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster
Last edited by asfastasdark at Oct 3, 2009,
#20
Quote by fly135
I never said you don't need a transformer. Voltage isn't the same as power. And high voltage doesn't mean high power. An invertor and a xformer can give you any voltage you need.


You are correct. You can do it - with transformers, and some sort of power supply circuit. But I don't see any of that in these pedals. Ask yourself this. If they really use 300v plate voltages, why do they have a "wall wart" power supply to turn the 110VAC into low voltage DC before they run it into the pedal? It would be extremely inefficient to turn high voltage AC into low voltage DC, then to just have to convert it to high voltage DC again inside the pedal.

Like asfastasdark just said, it wouldn't be feasible. Especially when you have 110V wall voltage to work with. It would be much more efficient to convert the high voltage AC into high voltage DC.

I never said tube pedals won't sound good. My argument is that they won't run the tube PROPERLY. Tubes were designed to operate at high voltages. Not 12V. It will work, but its called starving the plate, and the tube reacts differently than under normal voltage.
Last edited by Matt420740 at Oct 3, 2009,
#21
Quote by asfastasdark
Edit:

A transformer alone can't increase voltage, it simply converts AC to DC.

This is as good a place as any to start with all the wrong info in this thread. A transformer does not convert AC to DC, thats what a rectifier does. A transformer changes AC to AC at a different voltage and current. Nothing more, nothing less. Power in is going to equal power out, minus some losses that are way over most people here's heads.
So can a tube pedal run off of 12V or so? Yup, and i can prove it. Take your 12V 1000 mA power supply and run it through a transformer. Lets go with a 20:1 winding ratio for ease of use (nice round number). 12V stepped up 20 times will give us 240V, enough to run a tube. 1000 mA stepped down by a factor of 20 will give us 50 mA, which is the current draw of a lot of pedals. So can our tube run off that? Yes, it can. Anyone who says that a tube cannot run off the voltage supplied to a pedal has no idea what they are talking about.
Period.


Now we talk about what goes on in real life. Most of the pedals with a tube in them do not in fact run with enough plate voltage. There is one pedal that sticks yellow LEDs behind the pedal to make it look like it is lit up. However there are pedals that do run the voltages required, such as damage control pedals and blackstar pedals. I do not know if the English Muff'n runs at a high voltage, but i think the pedal sounds good so I really dont care. And that is what it comes down to, does the pedal sound good or not?


PS: I had a post like twice as long as this, but it crashed my browser so this will have to do.
#22
I'm not going to join the arguement, but here are some brands to look at:

Blackstar
Radial
Damage Control
Seymour Duncan