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#1
I have a problem. My natural voice is pretty low, so when I try singing in higher ranges (when covering other people's songs, usually) it sounds like I'm using my "head voice", which is pretty thin sounding. Can I force my natural range into tenor territory or am I stuck with a low voice? Listen to "Even Deeper" cover on my profile.
#3
You can almost always extend your range with proper technique. However, a bass will never become a tenor, and vice-versa. Most of us are baritones (about 80%), so our ranges will extend to almost cover either the bass or almost the tenor range. For me, My highest note used to be F# (first string second fret). With lessons, I extended my range up to about a Bb. If I joined a choir, I would be in the tenor section, but I am not a true tenor. Nor will I ever be.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#4
ive had to work a lot on my singing. i think im a baritone, but according to range charts, i can sing the starting note for bass range. but i can also sing tenor parts.

one thing ive needed to get used to is singing with lots of air. you cant be quiet. i dont mean yell, but you need to force behind the higher notes or they will sound thin. try singing some big band songs like frank sinatra or tony bennett. try and do an impression of their style. that or maybe singers like pavarotti. listen to their higher notes and how they fill them out. you'll also notice they are not quiet singers.

there are some other things you could do but mostly for me i found when i opened up and sang like no one was there, i could hit those notes a lot better.
#5
I'm a baritone, after practicing for 6th months ish I'm in the same position as chris, being able to go from F1 to F-G4 ish. About the standard range for both a baritone and a tenor.

Your head voice should sound fine, it's what I use. You're sure it's not your falsetto? My head voice sounds almost as strong and clear as my chest voice.


Like the guy above me said, you just got to put some air into it, and come out big n strong.
Quote by Venice King
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#6
Hey, this is off topic, but I like your voice :P
Guitar: Ibanez RG321MH with EMG 85/60
Amp: Peavey 6505+ 1x12 combo
Musical styles: Progressive rock, thrash metal, post-hardcore.
#7
Quote by Jason_Clement
Hey, this is off topic, but I like your voice :P


Really appreciate it.
#8
Quote by Ghast
Your head voice should sound fine, it's what I use. You're sure it's not your falsetto? My head voice sounds almost as strong and clear as my chest voice.


there are 3 registers in the voice, chest, head, and whistle (which almost no men have) "falsetto" is just laymen's terms for head voice. contrary to popular opinion, they are the same thing. You're "head voice that sound full" is probly a rough mix voice (as the name would suggest a mixing of head and chest)
#9
No. And this is *exactly* why I don't like the implied exclusivity of the terms 'head voice' and 'chest voice.' Falsetto is falsetto. Head voice is a mixture of head and chest resonance, (though with more sinus cavity resonance than chest cavity resonance) and should sound full, rich, and resonant. Falsetto does not sound rich, full, nor resonant.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#10
well what is falsetto then? what people normally call falsetto is head voice, and the "fullness" of head voice is just a mix. just because you feel like you're singing up in your head and its still loud, doesnt mean it's "head voice", it just means you're changing how your projecting and where you're sending your sound
#11
You're not stuck with a super deep voice by any means. You just need to coordinate some head voice into your chest voice. Don't ever reach for high notes in your chest voice unless you deliberately want a strained tone.

I know people mean well, but DO NOT use lots of air. It is never about using more force, unless that's the tone you want. People tend to use more air as they're going higher in pitch as an attempt to "hold it together." This will work up to about an F# or G, but after that, especially if you're a baritone, you're going to significantly lose agility and your tone will sound very strained and shouty. I'm a deep baritone, with roughly the same tonal qualities as Eddie Vedder, or Jim Morrison, and I can hit any note from open low E string to the A above male high C, in full voice, not very much louder than my speaking voice if necessary. Trust me, it doesn't have to be loud, and you don't have to use much air. In fact, as you go up in pitch, you really should be using less air. (Note: Less air doesn't necessarily mean quieter.)
#12
Falsetto is, literally translated, a "small, false voice." It's that 'girly' voice that men put on to reach really high notes. It's that voice you use when you want to associate your voice with singing ladybugs or elves or something.

I agree that those full, resonant sounding notes are a mixture of head voice and chest voice. They are not purely head voice. But, when people talk about head voice, they do not mean falsetto. They mean to describe notes that are higher in pitch where the resonance is in the sinus cavities. See where the problem is? You're interpreting 'head voice' in a way that suggests that the voice is created exclusively in the head, when in fact, it should not be. This is why I hate the terminology.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#13
Quote by Chaingarden

I know people mean well, but DO NOT use lots of air. It is never about using more force, unless that's the tone you want. People tend to use more air as they're going higher in pitch as an attempt to "hold it together." This will work up to about an F# or G, but after that, especially if you're a baritone, you're going to significantly lose agility and your tone will sound very strained and shouty.


This is true of people who do not produce the voice correctly. In order to sing a higher note, the vocal cords need to vibrate back and forth at a faster frequency. This requires more air. For those who do not produce the voice correctly, they force the air too hard, hammer it against their soft palate, and explode it out of the mouth before it has a chance to resonate, thus achieving that strained and shouty quality.

When you produce the voice properly, you direct it at the hard palate (which gives you volume.... and lots of it), and you allow it to resonate fully in the sinus cavities (which is where that 'bigness' or 'roundness' of tone comes in. The air is still travelling quickly, and you are singing loudly, but the end result is neither shouty nor strained.

Quote by Chaingarden

I can hit any note from open low E string to the A above male high C, in full voice,


Wait a sec.... by 'male high C', I'm assuming you mean the tenor high C, which is the first string, eighth fret. One male singer in ten can reach that note. Only a handful of men in the last couple hundred years can reach the F above that (13th fret), as called for in one of Mozart's arias. (in full voice, it is important to point out....) And you can reach the A above *that*? In full voice??!! Call me a skeptic.

Quote by Chaingarden

not very much louder than my speaking voice if necessary.


It is considerably harder to sing high notes quietly than it is to sing them loudly. You run the risk, when trying to sing them quietly, of allowing the voice to be produced in the throat and shifting into falsetto. After ten years of vocal study, I *almost* made it to that point. (my instructor passed away.)

Based on your description above, I'm not sure how aware you are of when you are in falsetto and when you are not. I'll gladly be proven wrong by a recording.

Quote by Chaingarden

In fact, as you go up in pitch, you really should be using less air. (Note: Less air doesn't necessarily mean quieter.)


You most certainly don't want to be blasting all your air out in a manner of 'all speed and no control.' That expulsion of air needs to be well controlled, to be sure. You can achieve greater volume with less air and good technique than you ever will with more air and bad technique. My favourite analogy is to say that you can rap your knuckles lightly on an aluminum garbage bin and make a fair racket. Similarly, you could beat the daylights out of a bean bag chair with a baseball bat and hardly make any noise at all.

But, with good technique, your higher notes will use more air than middle notes, and they will be louder. Only a real masterful singer can sing high notes quietly with good technique. Anyone can sing high notes quietly in falsetto.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#14
Quote by Chaingarden
I know people mean well, but DO NOT use lots of air. It is never about using more force, unless that's the tone you want. People tend to use more air as they're going higher in pitch as an attempt to "hold it together." This will work up to about an F# or G, but after that, especially if you're a baritone, you're going to significantly lose agility and your tone will sound very strained and shouty. I'm a deep baritone, with roughly the same tonal qualities as Eddie Vedder, or Jim Morrison, and I can hit any note from open low E string to the A above male high C, in full voice, not very much louder than my speaking voice if necessary. Trust me, it doesn't have to be loud, and you don't have to use much air. In fact, as you go up in pitch, you really should be using less air. (Note: Less air doesn't necessarily mean quieter.)


Are you sure you don't mean the A above middle C? I'm a tenor, and my highest note full-voice is the tenor high C. Most tenors can't go higher than that without falsetto, let alone baritones.
My guitar modification blog.
Quote by MuffinMan
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#15
Maybe he is measuring middle C as fifth string third fret, which IS middle C on the guitar. Except the guitar and the male voice both transpose down an octave, which confuses the hell out of people.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
Quote by axemanchris
Maybe he is measuring middle C as fifth string third fret, which IS middle C on the guitar. Except the guitar and the male voice both transpose down an octave, which confuses the hell out of people.

CT

you confused me alittle which one would you use as middle C if you were reading vocal sheet music
#17
Quote by yabes24
you confused me alittle which one would you use as middle C if you were reading vocal sheet music


For tenor, it would be the third space.
For alto or soprano, it would be the first ledger line.

Quote by axemanchris
Maybe he is measuring middle C as fifth string third fret, which IS middle C on the guitar. Except the guitar and the male voice both transpose down an octave, which confuses the hell out of people.

CT


I thought they were opposites? For example, I thought you played the guitar an octave above written, while you sing tenor an octave lower than written.

Then again, I'm no expert when it comes to guitar sheet music.
My guitar modification blog.
Quote by MuffinMan
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Last edited by Black Star at Oct 9, 2009,
#18
A guitarist sees middle C written on the page and plays the fifth string, third fret. "Actual" middle C, if you were to match it up with a piano, is the second string first fret. In other words, the guitar plays an octave lower than written.

The tenor and bass voices do the same thing. They'll see middle C written on the page, but will sing an octave below it. The reason for that is that the tenor range goes from an octave below middle C to an octave above middle C, so to write it on the staff at pitch would require four leger lines below the staff, which we all know would be awkward as hell to read. So the part is written up an octave so it fits within a single leger line below and only two leger lines above at what would basically be considered the extremes.

Edit: come to think of it, the bass voice would transpose down two octaves if written in treble clef, or would sing at pitch in bass clef. An alto would also transpose down an octave in treble clef, whereas a soprano would sing at pitch. I think that's how it works (in SATB, I would be a tenor, so that is my personal frame of reference) off the top of my head. I'd have to take a closer look at it to be sure.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#19
Quote by axemanchris
Falsetto is, literally translated, a "small, false voice." It's that 'girly' voice that men put on to reach really high notes. It's that voice you use when you want to associate your voice with singing ladybugs or elves or something.

I agree that those full, resonant sounding notes are a mixture of head voice and chest voice. They are not purely head voice. But, when people talk about head voice, they do not mean falsetto. They mean to describe notes that are higher in pitch where the resonance is in the sinus cavities. See where the problem is? You're interpreting 'head voice' in a way that suggests that the voice is created exclusively in the head, when in fact, it should not be. This is why I hate the terminology.

CT

i agree with the last part but women also have falsetto, not just men.
#20
I am talking about high C, not middle C.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/adamdaily

"Live Like A Martyr" has some high F#s in the chorus. You'll also find some in "Billie Jean." I haven't recorded the A above that just because it typically is show-offy sounding. I can if you'd like.

Now, when I say "full voice" I am talking about a mixed voice. I'm not talking about pushing chest voice up to that note. Definitely not talking about falsetto, though.

Head voice and falsetto are not the same thing. This claim is a derivative of mistaken and misinformed physiological knowledge. When a singer uses falsetto, the vocal cords are breaking apart, hence the airy sound. When a singer uses head voice or a mix, the cords are together.
Last edited by Chaingarden at Oct 10, 2009,
#21
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
i agree with the last part but women also have falsetto, not just men.


Correct, but women don't need to 'put on' a 'girly' voice. It does have a different character, but it is not as pronounced as when men do it.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#22
Quote by Chaingarden
I am talking about high C, not middle C.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/adamdaily

"Live Like A Martyr" has some high F#s in the chorus. You'll also find some in "Billie Jean." I haven't recorded the A above that just because it typically is show-offy sounding. I can if you'd like.


Sounds falsetto to me. Extremely well supported and controlled, but still falsetto. (listened to Martyr)

Quote by Chaingarden

Head voice and falsetto are not the same thing. This claim is a derivative of mistaken and misinformed physiological knowledge. When a singer uses falsetto, the vocal cords are breaking apart, hence the airy sound. When a singer uses head voice or a mix, the cords are together.


This I agree with. Again, that 'head voice' label really bothers me, because whether you are talking about 'chest voice' or 'head voice', they should both be mixed voice. The only difference is the proportion between the two as you go up or down. Mixed voice is your full voice.... whether your head voice or your chest voice. It's that implied exclusivity in the labels that are confounding.


CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#23
Quote by axemanchris
A guitarist sees middle C written on the page and plays the fifth string, third fret. "Actual" middle C, if you were to match it up with a piano, is the second string first fret. In other words, the guitar plays an octave lower than written.

The tenor and bass voices do the same thing. They'll see middle C written on the page, but will sing an octave below it. The reason for that is that the tenor range goes from an octave below middle C to an octave above middle C, so to write it on the staff at pitch would require four leger lines below the staff, which we all know would be awkward as hell to read. So the part is written up an octave so it fits within a single leger line below and only two leger lines above at what would basically be considered the extremes.

Edit: come to think of it, the bass voice would transpose down two octaves if written in treble clef, or would sing at pitch in bass clef. An alto would also transpose down an octave in treble clef, whereas a soprano would sing at pitch. I think that's how it works (in SATB, I would be a tenor, so that is my personal frame of reference) off the top of my head. I'd have to take a closer look at it to be sure.

CT

ya, thx, that definetly helps, kept wondering why i would never even see half my range used in any songs.
#24
Quote by axemanchris
Sounds falsetto to me. Extremely well supported and controlled, but still falsetto. (listened to Martyr)


This I agree with. Again, that 'head voice' label really bothers me, because whether you are talking about 'chest voice' or 'head voice', they should both be mixed voice. The only difference is the proportion between the two as you go up or down. Mixed voice is your full voice.... whether your head voice or your chest voice. It's that implied exclusivity in the labels that are confounding.


CT


I get what you're saying. The chest/head voice distinction is a little strange, since, if you have a good mix, it should be tough to describe, note by note, whether it's chest or head voice. Profoundly different resonating chambers are definitely being accessed for certain notes though. Falsetto though, is a distinctly different deal. It should sound airy and "fake," like when someone is joking around and imitating a singer like Axl Rose. May be on pitch, but it sounds silly generally.

For instance, in the track I posted "Live Like A Martyr," the note I'm doing on the word "preach" is done in falsetto. It's pretty well supported, but I couldn't, say, add any chest voice to it. It's using a different physiological principle. The chorus part, however, is still connected. It's a heady mix, but to a certain extent, I could still add a thicker, chesty tone to it. I think a pretty good way to tell the distinction is that falsetto should be very difficult to project and to make sound powerful. Even the most well-trained singer would agree that it takes considerably more air to try to project a note in falsetto.
#25
Chaingarden is a god amongst men IMO
I can just barely scream out a high A in a very light head voice, and it sounds horrible that high anyway. I can't really go below a low G either, how the hell are you getting a low E and a high A?

And yeah it's pretty much accepted that falsetto and head voice are two completely different things, they've shoved little cameras down peoples throats and like chaingarden said, you can see that in falsetto the vocal cords are blown apart while in head voice they stay together and make contact with each cycle.

The terminology part shouldn't really matter though, we could call it ass voice if we really wanted to, that wouldn't change anything as long as we acknowledge that head voice and falsetto are two completely different registers.
#26
Quote by Chaingarden
I get what you're saying. The chest/head voice distinction is a little strange, since, if you have a good mix, it should be tough to describe, note by note, whether it's chest or head voice. Profoundly different resonating chambers are definitely being accessed for certain notes though. Falsetto though, is a distinctly different deal. It should sound airy and "fake," like when someone is joking around and imitating a singer like Axl Rose. May be on pitch, but it sounds silly generally.


For most people, yes, it generally sounds silly. For those who have developed it well (certainly not me), they can get a fuller, more powerful sound and have it sound just fine. I'm thinking Robert Plant in Black Dog or the Immigrant Song kind of thing.

Quote by Chaingarden

For instance, in the track I posted "Live Like A Martyr," the note I'm doing on the word "preach" is done in falsetto. It's pretty well supported, but I couldn't, say, add any chest voice to it.


Okay.... that's the B *just* below the tenor high C. That is, first string, 7th fret B. You describe yourself as a baritone. Given that description, it makes sense that you would need to go into falsetto to sing that B. It makes sense that you could not sing that in your 'mixed' voice. (refusing to use head voice and chest voice here for sake of clarity).

Quote by Chaingarden

The chorus part, however, is still connected. It's a heady mix, but to a certain extent, I could still add a thicker, chesty tone to it.


But what about that scream that hits the F# around 2:23? That's a whole perfect fifth above that B you mentioned that you couldn't sing in your mixed voice. It totally sounds falsetto to me. Well controlled and supported, as I said, but that does *not* sound like your natural voice.

Quote by Chaingarden

I think a pretty good way to tell the distinction is that falsetto should be very difficult to project and to make sound powerful. Even the most well-trained singer would agree that it takes considerably more air to try to project a note in falsetto.


I've gone on record before as knowing precious little about proper vocal production as it applies to falsetto, but I do know it when I hear it. You control yours well, but those high notes you're singing most definitely have that 'Robert Plant' falsetto character to them. They're probably projecting well, but they do sound falsetto.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#27
Quote by Chaingarden
I'm a deep baritone, with roughly the same tonal qualities as Eddie Vedder, or Jim Morrison, and I can hit any note from open low E string to the A above male high C, in full voice, not very much louder than my speaking voice if necessary.


I guess the reason I'm really grabbing onto this is that this quote above I think is really misleading. When people are talking about expanding their range, or when people talk about their range in general, falsetto is generally not counted. It is unrealistic to suggest that *any* male (except for maybe someone in a carnival or some other freak show) can sing that note in full voice.

Kind of a point of semantics here, but given the context of the discussion, I think an important one.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
Some examples....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neRgYDk6adw - Highlights a lot of tenor high notes. A few C's and even C#'s. There's a high D, but it is starting to sound sort of falsetto there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4RLUtqQRrA - one of these guys hits a pretty solid D. The rest of them seem to top out around C/C#. Notice how the Eb is starting to sound pretty falsetto?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q71Ka3go7Kw - whereas in this one (the first few don't have anyone hitting the D or higher), anyone who gets up around the D starts sounding falsetto.

In opera, being able to nail a high C in full voice is considered almost like the holy grail for tenors, because not even all of them can do it very well without fudging it somewhat. If the human voice was readily and commonly able to exceed that, it wouldn't be such a barrier.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#29
Quote by axemanchris
Some examples....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neRgYDk6adw - Highlights a lot of tenor high notes. A few C's and even C#'s. There's a high D, but it is starting to sound sort of falsetto there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4RLUtqQRrA - one of these guys hits a pretty solid D. The rest of them seem to top out around C/C#. Notice how the Eb is starting to sound pretty falsetto?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q71Ka3go7Kw - whereas in this one (the first few don't have anyone hitting the D or higher), anyone who gets up around the D starts sounding falsetto.

In opera, being able to nail a high C in full voice is considered almost like the holy grail for tenors, because not even all of them can do it very well without fudging it somewhat. If the human voice was readily and commonly able to exceed that, it wouldn't be such a barrier.

CT


Okay, I get where you're coming from. When I talk about full voice, I'm talking about a mix. It may be a totally semantics thing. I'll do straight falsetto sometimes, like for the "preach" part, but it's a stylistic choice. I guess what I'm getting at is if you can get a continuous pitch rise from your lowest note to your highest, with no breaks or "flips," you're likely in what I consider full voice. I'd make the distinction between falsetto and full voice when talking about the difference between a Thom Yorke or Matthew Bellamy high E versus a Chris Cornell or David Coverdale high E. I guess it's a terminology difference here.
#30
Quote by Chaingarden
Okay, I get where you're coming from. When I talk about full voice, I'm talking about a mix. It may be a totally semantics thing. I guess what I'm getting at is if you can get a continuous pitch rise from your lowest note to your highest, with no breaks or "flips," you're likely in what I consider full voice.


Yes, definitely a problem with terminologies. Although we seem to be on the same page as far as the fact that full voice = mixed voice, and what exactly that means.

Quote by Chaingarden

I'd make the distinction between falsetto and full voice when talking about the difference between a Thom Yorke or Matthew Bellamy high E versus a Chris Cornell or David Coverdale high E. I guess it's a terminology difference here.


Okay.... I'm thinking about David Coverdale crying out, "In the still of the night I hear the wolf howl honey, sniffing around at your do-or." I would call that a very well controlled and supported falsetto - similar to what you are doing in Martyr in the choruses at that 2:23 mark.

In both cases, you seem to be suggesting that that is NOT falsetto? I don't want to put words into your mouth, so I will ask.... is that what you are suggesting?

EDIT: wait.... I need to find a better example. I went back and re-listened to Still of the Night (haven't heard it in probably ten years), and it's not as high as I remember it, and at least that part is not falsetto. Can you suggest, maybe, where to listen to what you're talking about? I'm sure I've heard him do falsetto, but nothing is coming to me at the moment.

EDIT again: Okay.... how about what I mentioned above? Black Dog or Immigrant Song?

Or are you suggesting that they/you are using a mixture of your natural voice and falsetto? That would pull everything together here and have it all make sense. However, the end result is the same.... still technically out of your natural range, because still falsetto, no matter how you slice it. Similar to the operatic examples I posted once they started getting up to the D and such.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#31
Chaingarden, it almost seems as if you're considering falsetto to only be that airy sound. However, falsetto can have an edge on it. I'm not too familiar with David Coverdale, but look at vocalists such as Sebastian Bach. Near the end of "18 and Life", where he sings "... that child blew a child away". That is an extremely well-supported falsetto, but it's still falsetto.
My guitar modification blog.
Quote by MuffinMan
Jesus was all like "To those about to rock, I salute you." then he grabbed his mighty axe and rocked the Romans out really hard. Of course they were strict classical music so....
#32
Great example!

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#33
If you can slide up to a "falsetto" note from your natural lower range without any breaks, why would it still be called falsetto? The whole idea is that the upper head/mixed voice stuff is just an extension of your lower range rather than a disconnected register like falsetto would be.
#34
Since we're talking about head voice and falsetto, does anyone here have any idea how Jeff Buckley was able to hit some of those insanely high notes (like the high-pitched wailing in Grace and the end of So Real)? Was he straining at all? Or just using his head voice? Or was it some kind of inhumanly powerful falsetto? I don't expect to be able to sing those notes (I'm a human being, lol), but if I knew how he was able to sing so high with so much power and emotion, I figured I'd at least be able to use that knowledge to my advantage to find and extend the top of my range.
#35
Cheeseman, I'm definitely nothing special, I just practice a lot. I sounded awful before I started taking singing seriously.

To Chris and Black Star, the only problem I'm having with considering the end of 18 and Life or much of Robert Plant's stuff falsetto is twofold. First, falsetto is not generally rich in harmonics. You won't hear overtones, even in a well supported falsetto, because your vocal cords are doing something completely different than in full voice. When you flip into falsetto, your vocal cords are thrown apart, so I'm not seeing how you could bridge into falsetto from chest voice without break. This brings me to my next issue, and I think this is highlighted fairly well in 18 and Life. He's does a couple sirens in the song, and it sounds to me like he's connecting his chest voice to his head voice pretty well. If he were using falsetto, you would hear some sort of break or flip in the middle when his vocal cords get thrown apart. Unless I'm making some sort of anatomical mistake, I just don't see how you could do that using falsetto, rather than head voice.
#36
Quote by i_don't_know
Since we're talking about head voice and falsetto, does anyone here have any idea how Jeff Buckley was able to hit some of those insanely high notes (like the high-pitched wailing in Grace and the end of So Real)? Was he straining at all? Or just using his head voice? Or was it some kind of inhumanly powerful falsetto? I don't expect to be able to sing those notes (I'm a human being, lol), but if I knew how he was able to sing so high with so much power and emotion, I figured I'd at least be able to use that knowledge to my advantage to find and extend the top of my range.


Jeff Buckley may have had better control of his voice than any male pop/rock singer I've ever heard, and most singers of any genre I've ever heard. There are a few things to consider when tackling the specifics of Buckley's voice...

1.) He had been singing all his life. His instrument was fine tuned to the extreme.

2.) He also had a very high speaking voice. That very high timbre was natural to his voice. This also means he likely had a much easier time getting over bridges than deep voiced singers.

3.) He wasn't concerned with sounding "manly" when hitting high notes. Much of his high mix was almost exclusively head voice. It was still well connected, but he wasn't taking the "wailing" approach much of the time. There are exceptions, like Grace, but he definitely had a very pretty voice, as opposed to a rocking, wailing voice. A good example of this is his version of Corpus Christi Carol.
#37
Quote by Chaingarden
Cheeseman, I'm definitely nothing special, I just practice a lot. I sounded awful before I started taking singing seriously.

To Chris and Black Star, the only problem I'm having with considering the end of 18 and Life or much of Robert Plant's stuff falsetto is twofold. First, falsetto is not generally rich in harmonics. You won't hear overtones, even in a well supported falsetto, because your vocal cords are doing something completely different than in full voice. When you flip into falsetto, your vocal cords are thrown apart, so I'm not seeing how you could bridge into falsetto from chest voice without break. This brings me to my next issue, and I think this is highlighted fairly well in 18 and Life. He's does a couple sirens in the song, and it sounds to me like he's connecting his chest voice to his head voice pretty well. If he were using falsetto, you would hear some sort of break or flip in the middle when his vocal cords get thrown apart. Unless I'm making some sort of anatomical mistake, I just don't see how you could do that using falsetto, rather than head voice.


The main thing you have to remember is that not everything is exclusive. For example, you can mix your falsetto with your head voice, causing there not to be a break. You have to have really good technique to do this flawlessly, without a drastic change in tone, but it can be done.
My guitar modification blog.
Quote by MuffinMan
Jesus was all like "To those about to rock, I salute you." then he grabbed his mighty axe and rocked the Romans out really hard. Of course they were strict classical music so....
Last edited by Black Star at Oct 12, 2009,
#38
I really think this is just a semantic difference at this point. Regardless of whether it's called head voice or falsetto or whatever, if a note has power and carries emotion, it shouldn't matter what mechanism is used, let alone what terminology is used. If you can make a badass, powerful, high note, and it sounds good to my ears, it doesn't make too much of a difference to me what it's called.
#39
Quote by Chaingarden
When you flip into falsetto, your vocal cords are thrown apart, so I'm not seeing how you could bridge into falsetto from chest voice without break.


A well-trained falsetto will do just this. You do it on that high F# in Martyr. I can't. People spend years trying to smooth out that bridge between their natural voice and falsetto. Plant, Coverdale, Sebastian Bach, Brad Delp, and those opera guys I linked to above.

Quote by Chaingarden

brings me to my next issue, and I think this is highlighted fairly well in 18 and Life. He's does a couple sirens in the song, and it sounds to me like he's connecting his chest voice to his head voice pretty well.


Remember, chest voice and head voice are not mutually exclusive. They exist together, never separately.

Quote by Chaingarden

If he were using falsetto, you would hear some sort of break or flip in the middle when his vocal cords get thrown apart.


You would in a singer who wasn't good at those transitions. If I did it, it would sound hilariously bad, because my falsetto is tragically under-developed. He happens to be excellent at it. That's all. It is still falsetto, though.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#40
This may be instructional....

Here is a live video of More than a Feeling by Boston. Brad Delp is a master at blending his natural voice into falsetto in the studio. Live... does not quite get the same level of mastery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AlzsP4jN1E

Here is a live video of 18 and Life by Skid Row:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp4Gklr6660

Notice he can't hit those notes without his voice breaking up. It's probably forcing his falsetto into a scream. There doesn't seem to be any way he can hit that note with a pure tone with the same strength he was able to get in the studio. It must have been falsetto in the original recording.

Also notice that the high notes that he hits that do sound full and pure.... they're only G#'s.

I think in the studio, a certain amount of reverb and crossfading can be done to help smooth that transition - especially given a potentially infinite number of takes.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
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