#1
I've been looking for an halfstack under $700 that is powerful enough that I'd never need another one unless I wanted a change in tone. Well, I've found the Carvin halfstack in my sig, but I was thinking, would 600 be overkill with a PA? How many watts would I really need to be heard in a bad situation? And what amps would you recommend?
#3
If you're using a PA then tiny practice amps are enough. What you need to be heard over a drumset depends on a lot of things though.

EDIT: I meant, what you need to be heard over a drumset without a pa.
Last edited by Macabre_Turtle at Oct 6, 2009,
#4
If you have a PA to blast ur amp through u wouldn't even need 50watts let alone 600. The only reason to get a stack with a PA is too look cool, but i guess that's half the reason to play live. But yer that amp is way overkill, but you get to say... I have a SIX HUNDRED WATT amp.

hahaha.

If you do get it, it'll be fun until u go deaf.

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#5
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
If you're using a PA then tiny practice amps are enough. What you need to be heard over a drumset depends on a lot of things though.

There's two rooms that my band practices in.

Room A:

Small room.


Room B:

Large room.


Do those help? Also, the large room will have a PA sometime soon.

Quote by julzius
If you have a PA to blast ur amp through u wouldn't even need 50watts let alone 600. The only reason to get a stack with a PA is too look cool, but i guess that's half the reason to play live. But yer that amp is way overkill, but you get to say... I have a SIX HUNDRED WATT amp.

hahaha.

If you do get it, it'll be fun until u go deaf.

Toodles!

Well, venues almost always have a PA, and only one of our practice spaces have a PA. And I want the stack to have a cabinet so I could buy amp heads.
Last edited by Alex Vik at Oct 6, 2009,
#8
more power is good. you don't always have a PA for shows and practice. to say a 50watt amp is fine if you have a PA is just not true. in this price range i would look into Markbass amps. Ampeg, Hartke, Trace-Elliot, GK, and Peavey also have nice amps in this price range.
#9
600w isnt overkill, now 1200w that's pushing it a little.
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#10
Well. Guitarist here, so my instrument is heard a little differently, but before my band got a PA I couldn't get my 120watt over the drums. You could hear me, but not well enough to say, notice if I make a mistake. Though, we were playing in a tight room, and the bigger the room is, the easier it will be to hear everybody. I think (this all could be wrong, I'm not a gear expert), but I think just 200watts would be more than anybody needs.
#11
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
Well. Guitarist here, so my instrument is heard a little differently, but before my band got a PA I couldn't get my 120watt over the drums. You could hear me, but not well enough to say, notice if I make a mistake. Though, we were playing in a tight room, and the bigger the room is, the easier it will be to hear everybody. I think (this all could be wrong, I'm not a gear expert), but I think just 200watts would be more than anybody needs.

Not for bass man. 200 watts is barely enough. My Peavey rig is pushing 500 watts right now and I can hear it pretty well during practice.
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#12
Yeah I have the Carvin R600, certainly not overkill, but you won't need to be mic'd.
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#13
The BX600 is only 225W through that cab...so no, it's not overkill at all. Add another cab and you'll have a pretty standard rig, as far as wattage goes.
Nope, no sig here.
#14
Read the guide to PA in the columns as it will give you the idea of what you are trying to achieve. Basically as long as you can match the drumset you will be loud enough, any more than that and the bass will start to bleed through the vocal mics and muddy your sound as a band.

How many watts do you need to do this? It depends upon many things, mainly your musical style and the efficiency of your speakers. Generally though 200W is the target which will do almost anything and that you have to double power to get a noticeable difference of three decibels.

All amps have a volume control though so too much power isn't a problem as long as the nut on your shoulders is properly adjusted.

cheers
#15
I run 225 watts all tube(which is sonically equivalent to about 550 watts SS or more to the human ear) and don't run into our PA but sometimes have issues hearing myself really well. Although during practice I am not currently standing directly in front of my amp. When i run into the PA I only come out the monitors since the sound really cuts through out front.

I'd actually suggest getting a 4 ohm cabinet with that head since it can run down to 2 ohms. You may get a second cab sometime in the future to fill out a different frequency range but you probably won't get 3 more cabs in the future because that'd just be insane to move and find room for at gigs.
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#16
It depends on the music you're playing as well but the 300W I'm pushing atm means I never have to turn up past 3 or 4 on my amp
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#18
Quote by insurgentsteve
ew, carvin.


Warned for spam.


Now back to topic. Again, I always recommend to buy the best quality and wattage your budget can allow. Carvin amps are great for the value, and 600 W is perfect when you don't have the luxury of a PA system.
#19
2,000 watts or GTFO.


In my experience it's always been better to have more than enough than not enough. You can turn down any amp to be the same volume as a 50 watt practice amp, but you can't crank that 50 watt amp up to match a massive stack. If you're going the stack route and you're price conscience, I'd make a rack mount set up. Get a PA power amp (you can get good, quality ones with tons of headroom for cheap) and a preamp or rackmount modeling preamp (Line 6, Sansamp, etc.) then hook both up and run into your cab/s. Later on down the road if you want a new head you can swap out preamps and get different tone without having to change your wattage. This is almost always more cost effective than buying a 600-800 watt head, and you can get much more headroom and versatility.
Last edited by Bumper at Oct 6, 2009,
#20
Quote by Bumper
2,000 watts or GTFO.



In my experience it's always been better to have more than enough than not enough.
.


this is true. It's not tube, so your tone won't suffer if it's turned down. And if you're outside with no PA, you're screwed unless you have the power to turn it up.
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#22
Quote by l3p4rd
this is true. It's not tube, so your tone won't suffer if it's turned down. And if you're outside with no PA, you're screwed unless you have the power to turn it up.
I disagree. When my Ampeg BA-115 is turned down to 3 or below it really kills the tone. Same goes for the crappy Behringer I use for guitar. I can only get it to sound decent if I really crank the level.

That being said, this:
Quote by higgins666
Yeah, really, one of the things with buying a bass amp is you'll always want atleast a little bit of headroom, as with alot of thing, it's better to have to much than not enough
You will definitely want plenty of headroom, but no one wants to hear a 600 watt amp run at 70 watts.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
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Last edited by food1010 at Oct 6, 2009,
#23
Quote by food1010
I disagree. When my Ampeg BA-115 is turned down to 3 or below it really kills the tone. Same goes for the crappy Behringer I use for guitar. I can only get it to sound decent if I really crank the level.


Solid state Ampegs are a joke. They're feeding off the name, and nothing else. It kills the tone because it's a shoddy amp, not because it's turned down. Or maybe it's because you can't hear the tone that low.

Quote by food1010
That being said, this:You will definitely want plenty of headroom, but no one wants to hear a 600 watt amp run at 70 watts.


Another thing, watts and decibels don't coincide like that, and they're not linear. you're not running a 600 watt amp at 70 watts, you're running a 600 watt amp quietly. Also, why would no one want to hear a 600 watt amp at less than full volume? Do you play your solid state Ampeg at full volume all the time?
Do you really think people want to hear that?
#24
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
Well. Guitarist here, so my instrument is heard a little differently, but before my band got a PA I couldn't get my 120watt over the drums. You could hear me, but not well enough to say, notice if I make a mistake. Though, we were playing in a tight room, and the bigger the room is, the easier it will be to hear everybody. I think (this all could be wrong, I'm not a gear expert), but I think just 200watts would be more than anybody needs.


If I'm not mistaken, aren't most Guitar Tube Amps running at 100w anyways? It's all about how many speakers you have! Actually, I'm not sure, but it's always loud enough, haha.

I run a BX1200 with the X-Over on, both my Cabs are at 8ohms. I have it turned up pretty freakin high, with my Drive at like 1 though cuz I still haven't figured out how to keep it from Clipping. I just end up bringing my Trace Elliot to shows cuz it's usually hooked up to the PA, but I use them both for practice. I play with Drums and 2 Half Stack Guitar amps and I can hear my crap pretty good. I used it for an outdoor venue once though without a PA and I had to crank it up pretty high.
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#25
Quote by Phry
If I'm not mistaken, aren't most Guitar Tube Amps running at 100w anyways? It's all about how many speakers you have! Actually, I'm not sure, but it's always loud enough, haha.

I run a BX1200 with the X-Over on, both my Cabs are at 8ohms. I have it turned up pretty freakin high, with my Drive at like 1 though cuz I still haven't figured out how to keep it from Clipping. I just end up bringing my Trace Elliot to shows cuz it's usually hooked up to the PA, but I use them both for practice. I play with Drums and 2 Half Stack Guitar amps and I can hear my crap pretty good. I used it for an outdoor venue once though without a PA and I had to crank it up pretty high.


Extremely false. Guitar tube amps vary and speakers barley make a difference at all when it comes to guitars.
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#26
Ive got a carvin redline 1000 watt amp. Now I can only get about 300 watts because thats all my avatar cab can getg without bridging the power amps, but even then Im only ever turning up to 4 or 5 during gigs. Maby its cause my guitarist is using a crappy behringer practice combo and outing into a crate 4x10 with unknown speakers.
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#27
Quote by Bumper
Solid state Ampegs are a joke. They're feeding off the name, and nothing else. It kills the tone because it's a shoddy amp, not because it's turned down. Or maybe it's because you can't hear the tone that low.


Another thing, watts and decibels don't coincide like that, and they're not linear. you're not running a 600 watt amp at 70 watts, you're running a 600 watt amp quietly. Also, why would no one want to hear a 600 watt amp at less than full volume? Do you play your solid state Ampeg at full volume all the time?
Do you really think people want to hear that?
My Ampeg sounds great for its size, or at least complements my bass extremely well. And I'm extremely picky about tone. And no, I don't play my Ampeg at full volume.

If I'm not mistaken, a volume knob is a type of resistor, therefore lowering the output power, and the amplitude of the sound waves emanating from the speaker. I know dB and watts don't correspond directly, and especially not linearly. There are a lot of factors that determine the amplitude of the sound, many which are completely unrelated to the amp.

I may have spoken rashly when I said what I did about a 600 watt amp at 70 watts, and I did not mean to say amps do not sound good at all when not played at max volume. I did mean to say, though, that sound quality is in fact compromised slightly at low volumes. I agree that EQing has a great impact on this as well as well as separate volume knob correspondence.

I hope that made my point a bit clearer.

Quote by l3p4rd
Extremely false. Guitar tube amps vary and speakers barley make a difference at all when it comes to guitars.
This. My brother used to think that volume was dependent on how many speakers or size of speakers, but really the only things different types or number of speakers affect is tone (slightly) and "how much air it pushes." For example, a 15" speaker is going to fill a room a lot better than an 8" with the same output power. Likewise 4x10" will fill a room a lot better than a single 10" with the same output power.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
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Last edited by food1010 at Oct 7, 2009,