#1
So I've recently morphed into a Blues guitarist, sick of slinging power chords every which where and sporting easy repetitive solos. I've more or less mastered the minor pentatonic scale and all of it's shapes, and can improvise in any key exceptionally well. So my question is, what next? Should I learn to solo within individual chords with the pentatonic during songs or wait to master that before taking on the major scale? Or perhaps there's another trick I can learn in the realm of the pentatonic scale? Keep in mind I'm completely self taught so may not have a grasp on everything as much as I think I do, if that's the case, please point it out.
Last edited by CL/\SH at Oct 6, 2009,
#2
learn all the shapes for minor and major scales, and start playing with modes, and throwing in accidentals to spice things up.

go go gadget guitar player.
#3
Completely forget the pentatonic scale! NAO!

Or at least just don't abuse it. learn major and minor and then buy a theory book and figure out how modes work.
#4
I've already started reading into modes and how they work, but I'm curious here. If someone could elaborate on this real quick... Lemme just talk about Ionian for now, and from what I know, Ionian is in fact the major scale. So if I learned (or figured out) all the shapes in Ionian, they would all be the shapes of the major scale, correct? And so, I could learn every shape for every mode to further expand my soloing ability? Just tell me if this all correct or not, so I know if I'm right.
#5
Quote by enselmis
Completely forget the pentatonic scale! NAO!

Or at least just don't abuse it. learn major and minor and then buy a theory book and figure out how modes work.


Do not listen to this. Terrible advice.

Keep on with the pentatonics. You say you've mastered them, I assume you mean you don't stick to boxes or anything. Good. Major and minor scales only add 2 notes, so work out how to use those over chords.
#6
major scale, minor scale. Put in some chromatic stuff in the pentatonic stuff to add some flavor. I personally like to add melodic minor and occasionally harmonic minor stuff in some pentatonic solos.
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#7
Whilst I don't think you've mastered anything (using the logic that awesome players don't claim they are awesome) the next logical steps would be looking at some famous blues players (Stevie Ray Vaughn etc) and see how they use the penatonic scale.

Also look at major and minor as mentioned above.
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#8
You assume correctly, I tend to move everywhere, and despise the thought of being restricted to boxes. I'll get on that.

But before doing so, I wanted to clarify several things. I can apply the shapes to any key I wish, and it will work correctly, no? Also, shifting a shape up 3 half steps would make what ever minor it was in a major, but would that not be the same thing as changing it to another minor key? For example:

a minor --> 3 frets up = a major = f# minor?

Also what exactly does it require to play over a chord? Playing the notes within that chord, but in the key that the song is in?

Also, please answer my question about modes. Thanks in advance!


To the person above, when I say master, I mean it in the sense that I never have to think about where I'm going next in the solo, I just go and continue improvising. I don't mean it in the sense that I have truly perfected it, I have only "mastered" making full use of the pentatonic shapes.
Last edited by CL/\SH at Oct 7, 2009,
#9
Quote by CL/\SH
You assume correctly, I tend to move everywhere, and despise the thought of being restricted to boxes. I'll get on that.

But before doing so, I wanted to clarify several things. I can apply the shapes to any key I wish, and it will work correctly, no? Also, shifting a shape up 3 half steps would make what ever minor it was in a major, but would that not be the same thing as changing it to another minor key? For example:

a minor --> 3 frets up = a major = f# minor?

Also what exactly does it require to play over a chord? Playing the notes within that chord, but in the key that the song is in?

Also, please answer my question about modes. Thanks in advance!


To the person above, when I say master, I mean it in the sense that I never have to think about where I'm going next in the solo, I just go and continue improvising. I don't mean it in the sense that I have truly perfected it, I have only "mastered" making full use of the pentatonic shapes.


You obviously know shapes, you need to learn notes. Shapes are inherent to the guitar, but the notes repeat all over the neck. Moving a shape doesn't work in the same key unless you move it 12 frets. That's why shapes repeat after 12 frets.

You don't need to worry about modes.

About mastering the pentatonics... I think you're comfortable with them, but you haven't mastered them by any stretch. To do so takes years of practice.

For everything I didn't address, take a look at the theory link and melodic control video in bangoodcharlotte's signature.
#10
Quote by CL/\SH


Also what exactly does it require to play over a chord? Playing the notes within that chord, but in the key that the song is in?


To the person above, when I say master, I mean it in the sense that I never have to think about where I'm going next in the solo, I just go and continue improvising. I don't mean it in the sense that I have truly perfected it, I have only "mastered" making full use of the pentatonic shapes.


See - it's a paradox. You say you've mastered the scale, but you don't know how to use them. How can you "never have to think" about where you are going next in the solo when you don't pay attention to the chords anyway?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#11
I'm working on notes, and have become relatively familiar with their locations. I wasn't saying moving a shape in the same key and asking if that works, I was asking if moving a shape changes the key, because the root of that shape is different when moved to a different fret. I just wanted to clarify whether it is correct that if I slid a shape in any direction, that it would change the key.

Again, for example, If I took the first pentatonic shape, on the fifth fret which is in the key of a-minor, if I moved that shape up to the 2nd fret, then that would mean it is no longer in a-minor, but f#-minor, right? So I could use those five ever repeating shapes and apply them to any key I wish, and it would work? Also, since it is moved up three half-steps, wouldn't that be the same thing as changing it to a-major, but the same exact thing as f#-minor?

Again to the person above, I don't need to because at the moment I don't play over chords, I just improvise in the key of the song, but I'm trying to clarify something about playing in key.

I've mastered the shapes in the sense that I don't need to think about where I'm going next for simply improvising in key. I want to be able to play over chords, but I'm still trying to clarify some things as I am not 100% sure if I am right about shapes and their potential application to any key.
Last edited by CL/\SH at Oct 7, 2009,
#12
Someone please help, I have school early tomorrow, and would like to know before I get to playing guitar yet again after school.
#13
Quote by CL/\SH
I've already started reading into modes and how they work, but I'm curious here. If someone could elaborate on this real quick... Lemme just talk about Ionian for now, and from what I know, Ionian is in fact the major scale. So if I learned (or figured out) all the shapes in Ionian, they would all be the shapes of the major scale, correct? And so, I could learn every shape for every mode to further expand my soloing ability? Just tell me if this all correct or not, so I know if I'm right.

You're not ready for modes yet in the sense that you don't yet fully understand the stuff you need to get your head round them. However as far as shapes go yes, the shapes of the relative modes are exactly the same as the shapes of the major scale. However that's only about 10% of what you actually need to know in terms of actually being able to use them.
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Last edited by steven seagull at Oct 7, 2009,
#14
Yes if you move the root note you change the key.

If you want to understand scales I'd suggest learning the Major scale - its probably the simplest to understand, and you can derive pretty much any scale you'll ever need form the major scale, so its a good starting point. To learn the patterns on the neck you just have to add two notes to the patterns you already know for the pentatonic, but don't just learn the patterns - learn how the scale is constructed. Learn it in terms of steps (WWHWWWH), notes (eg C Major is C D E F G A B) and intervals from the root (root, Maj 2nd, Maj 3rd, perfect 4th etc). If you understand that it should be a lot more logical how to use scales, and you'll be able to apply the same knowledge to other scales, including the pentatonic.

Don't worry about modes at all until you are completely comfortable with the major scale, pentatonics and the natural minor, and understand how those scales are all related to one another. By then modes should be relatively simple to understand, before then they'll be a pig.