#1
I'm in a 4 piece band (Guitar, Vocals, Bass, Drums) so obivously we don't have a rhythm guitarist but we are looking for one. So when we practice it sound quite empty cause I'm the only guitarist so I just wanted to know if there is a certain sound I can get to fill the gaps if you see what I mean. I have a Marshall JCM2000 DSL401 and I uusally have this settin that Mark Tremonti recomended in a video which was Bass on full and Treble and Mid on halfway or summin like that.
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Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#2
Same situation.

I use a mixture of both a touch of reverb and some delay (~3 repeats but low level) to fill out my sound. I also use an EQ to get my mids boosted slightly for playing lead.

This isn't just me saying this either. I got these ideas from numerous suggestions to my own thread on this subject about a year ago and played around with it.
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#3
First thing I thought after reading the title - more mids. Do it
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#4
dial in a lot of mids and have your bassist is fairly, well, bassy. Although Rush somehow manage to sound huge with Geddy's Steve Harrisy tone...
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Last edited by turtlewax at Oct 8, 2009,
#5
Don't scoop your midrange. Use the widest voicings you can find for each chord. Mix in a couple of lead fills with your rhythm playing, but don't stray too far from whatever position you're in if you do or it'll sound a little odd. A chorus pedal will be a good asset (don't make it sound to wishy washy), as will a delay that's set to the tempo of your song, (don't over-egg it); the idea is that the delay repeats fall on the same beat as the drums, which will subtly thicken your sound.
If you're taking a solo, the rhythm section have to be driving if you still want to sound big; a spacious bass line, for example, is a bad idea in that situation.

I'm in the same situation. Rhythm guitarists can add nice textures to the sound and fill in certain gaps, but two guitarists are by no means a necessity.
#6
I think the trouble is your bassist.

Make sure he has a deeper tone, a loud drummer helps as well. For your tone specifically, try setting all of the eq knobs at max and then play with the gain and volume, as well as your guitar tone controls. Your tone will probably sound like crap, but you'll definitely sound huge, now just level off which EQ's you need to make the sound less horrible. I usually lower the bass and treble slightly and keep mids high for lead, then for rhythm boost the bass and trebs and lower mids to about 11:00. I play a strat though.
#7
Quote by turtlewax
dial in a lot of mids and have your bassist is fairly, well, bassy. Although Rush somehow manage to sound huge with Geddy's Steve Harrisy tone...



I think Geddy's good enough to have HIS OWN tone thank you very much.
#8
Definatly give it some mids.


You could do an EVH trick... but its expensive. The easy way out is trying a chorus pedal... but for the real deal check out the sound clip in my profile labeled "Amsterdam Tone Cover 2".

Anyways heres what Eddie did. He had 3 amps. One amp was "Dry" which means it had no effects it was in the middle, then there was 2 "wet" cabs which means it has effects running, they were on each side of the dry cab. One of the wet cabs has an effect called a Detuner which raised the pitch by a few cents the other had the same effect but had the pitch lowered a few cents. It sounds really thick sounding, but it is expensive to set up for live. You could get away with doing 2 different amps, that just sound different then possible but chorus on one, or get the Boss PS-5 and use the detuner effect on it, that sounds thick, I tried it once during my bands practices but it was impracticle for changing channels. However the idea behind the wet dry wet mix that Eddie did was that it made it sound like there was more than one guitar playing, because 2 guitars that are ever so slightly out of tune from each other, and different players pick attack will create the detune effect.

But the easiest way is just with 1 amp and a Chorus pedal or the boss ps5 with the detuner effect on. That will give a thick sound... But its not as thick or awesome sounding.... However a lot of people think the whol wet/dry/wet thing sounds to fake... which it can.. but yah some people like it.
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#9
My advice would be to tell your bass player to liven his playing up a bit and to expand your own playing. There are plenty of bands that have only had one guitarist and still sounded just as ''full'' as a band with two.
If you're feeling really fancy, look at someone like Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan or John Frusciante. Their techniques are a great example of how to play two parts at once and can be applied to all styles of music.
If you're after something more straight forward, especially if you're into hard rock and metal, I'd really suggest listening to some Nightwish. Their music isn't going to be to everyone's taste, but Emppu Vuorinen does more with one guitar than the separate rhythm and lead guitarists of most bands combined. Or on a lighter note, Bon Jovi are a good example of one guitarist using just basic techniques to create a full sound, especially if you listen to their mid-90's albums (after they cut their hair and lost the 'turn it up to 11' gain).



Overall, I think the best rule is if you're the only guitarist in the band, don't worry about typical lead playing until you've got the rhythm down. This is especially true in any classic, hard rock or metal band. A solid rhythm part with a good melody contributes a lot more than any fiddly lead wankery. Your playing should really be split about 2/3 on rhythm playing.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Oct 9, 2009,
#10
Why so much bass? Isn't that why the bassguitarplayer is there for?
Put back the bass a little and play with the mids
#11
Timing.

There's nothing better for making a band sound big than when they're all in perfect time and en the bassist and guitarist are locked into the snare beat.

However if you want some ideas as to what you can do with your playing listen to bands like The Who, Queen and Free. And yes, turn the bass down...that's the bassist's territory.
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#12
Quote by Dimitri92
Why so much bass? Isn't that why the bassguitarplayer is there for?
Put back the bass a little and play with the mids



It was a sound that Mark Tremonti was using since on a few songs Mark plays by himself and he always got a filling sound.

That was good advice Mr.Flibble, I totaly forgot about Richie Sambora since he has an awesome tone.
Mark Tremonti: I have my own mixer on stage so I can alter my volmes while on stage

Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#13
Teach the singer to play guitar?
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#14
Quote by I am wet
Teach the singer to play guitar?

While that's a good idea, it isn't practical.

Make sure your tone is filling.
Keep synchronized with your rhythm section, and make the solo's rhythm parts loud and driving, so the volume doesn't drop too much.
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You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#15
Quote by Dimitri92
Why so much bass? Isn't that why the bassguitarplayer is there for?
Put back the bass a little and play with the mids


/facepalm

If you play on a TUBE amp then alot of bass isn't bad at all.
Solid state + full bass = mushy gross sound.
Tube + full bass = nice low end.. it doesn't exactly warp your tone but just adds an extra more heavy bottom crunch which sounds great and doing so doesn't play the same frequencies as bass therefore it doesn't take away anything from the bass player and the bassist still serves just as much of a purpose as before.
#16
^actually, SS+ full bass doesn't=mushy gross-if anything, SS amps have tighter bass than tube amps. That's a tube amp that's way overdriven.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#18
I play in a single guitar band. Well, our singer plays acoustic for slow songs, but that's beside the point. I use big and open chords for a lot of stuff. Barre chords and open chords are my best friend. As far as filling the sound out, I agree with all statements. More mids is good, some reverb to fill the sound out will add a nice touch, delay is great for filling out single notes and arpeggios (not too much). Delay is my best friend actually. I love it to bits.
#19
Rise to the challange and play 50/50 Lead and rythem.

+1 to someone else's suggestion of getting the bass player involved more. They tend to feel pretty left out and isolated and would appreciate a little lime light. :-)
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#20
Our bassist at the momet only has a Stagg amp *sigh* but I think he's either getting a Line 6 Lowdown or a Peavy TNT soon.
Mark Tremonti: I have my own mixer on stage so I can alter my volmes while on stage

Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#21
Turn mids as high as they can go without things becoming mushy. Roll off your tone pot slightly to make the sound darker and bigger.

Consider purchasing guitar synthesizer (Roland GR20) to fatten up the overall mix and add texture and color.
#22
Errr they're £500 lol
Mark Tremonti: I have my own mixer on stage so I can alter my volmes while on stage

Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#23
Try to incorporate lead into your rhythm.

ALso be sure to make full use of your pickup selector, neck pickup for rhythm and bridge to cut through when playing lead.

simple things that dont cost you anything.
#24
Quote by Tokai09
Our bassist at the momet only has a Stagg amp *sigh* but I think he's either getting a Line 6 Lowdown or a Peavy TNT soon.


I would highly recommend the Lowdown. My bassist has one and it's actually an amazing amp. Only cost him like 350 or something like that brand new.

TS: Get your bassist more involved. He's there to fill in sound and keep rhythm while your doing your leads and what not. Getting him to have a much more powerful tone and a little more presence would help alot.
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#25
Boost the mids, lower the bass, get your drums involved, and let the bass have a solo or two.
#26
Quote by darkcheef
Boost the mids, lower the bass, get your drums involved, and let the bass have a solo or two.


Yeah I keep telling my drummer to use the crash and open his high hat for more dynamics but he never does
Mark Tremonti: I have my own mixer on stage so I can alter my volmes while on stage

Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#27
you do not need a lot of bass, listen to 3-4 piece bands like Cream or Led Zeppelin, especially when they played live. They sounded huge even with one guitarist. You don't even need a ton of mids, enough mids to get you heard in the mix is enough, but there is some degree of coordination you need to have with your bassist and drummer in terms of playing that can really help you stand out.
Last edited by al112987 at Oct 11, 2009,